shadowkat: (tv slut)
[personal profile] shadowkat
1. Okay, I can't do a poll, because no paid account, but I'm curious...how many people who watch Doctor Who see it as a kid's show? And do your kids, assuming you have any, watch it? I'm particularly interested in the non-Brits. Because it's apparently marketed as a kid's show in Great Britain. But it isn't here. (It's shown at 9 pm here on Saturday nights. Not exactly what I think of as the prime kid-viewing hour.)

2. What is everyone watching? Anything interesting?

3.Sense8 got cancelled. Is it worth watching now that it is cancelled? Or will it irritate me because it ended on a cliff-hanger? What else on Netflix, Amazon Prime is worth checking out?

So far Bosch, Sense8, and Iron Fist have been mentioned. Anyone seen the Woody Allen/Elaine Page series?

4. Has American Gods finished yet? I'm waiting to binge watch as a 7 day trial on Starz.

Date: 2017-06-06 04:26 am (UTC)
cjlasky7: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cjlasky7
2. Just watched another beautifully crafted episode of Better Call Saul.

The story to this point:

After a brief attempt to sustain a respectable law practice, Jimmy McGill had his license suspended, and has finally taken on the Saul Goodman persona for some questionable side projects to pay his bills.

He now seems poised to plunge into the gutter and destroy everyone he loves.

Two episodes left in the season.

Date: 2017-06-06 04:43 am (UTC)
cactuswatcher: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cactuswatcher
1. I've only seen the first episodes from the very first season in a marathon and it was very definitely a kid's show then. (Honestly, that much of it was awful; really bad, but not quite bad enough to be amusing. I haven't had the desire to see more.) But I get the impression from listening to others that it's developed well over time.

Date: 2017-06-06 03:36 pm (UTC)
cactuswatcher: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cactuswatcher
Yes. I'm sure I saw it in the late 70s, but the marathon was advertised as the very first Dr. Who episodes, as opposed to what they were normally showing on the weekend. I thought it would be a good place to start watching. Turned out it was not. ;o)
Edited Date: 2017-06-06 03:38 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-06-06 04:59 am (UTC)
rogin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] rogin
Sense 8 is deffinitely a great thing to watch, even though the cancellation is horrible. The show has such wonderful characters and constellations and is beautifully shot. Probably has the very best sex scenes in main stream tv lately, too.
It's such a pity they cancelled it. It was the best show on netflix.

American Gods has not finished yet.

If you are prepared for being confused, the new Twin Peaks is very intriguing.

Date: 2017-06-06 03:03 pm (UTC)
rogin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] rogin
Deffinitely more on the surreal side of things. More than Lynch's later movies than the original tv show. It does have the original characters though and the Twin Peaks feel is deffinitely there.

I wish there were more weird townies and less completely abstract stuff but it still is excellent.

Date: 2017-06-06 05:27 pm (UTC)
rogin: (Default)
From: [personal profile] rogin
Well, I did a rewatch pretty recently and I am not sure if I can claim to be able to follow it.

I guess it doesn't make much of a difference. You have to remember how things ended for Agent Cooper and that's where it moves on from in a very weird and surreal way.

Date: 2017-06-06 09:08 am (UTC)
kerkevik_2014: (Play in the Puddles)
From: [personal profile] kerkevik_2014
The original show was a kids show; meant to intersperse historical stories with science fiction. The new show has been seen as the same show; though it is far from the same, and thus marketed as a kids show. It feels like a very adult show for me. but then many people would have said the same about the original, especially as it moved into the Tom Baker era and beyond. I'm not sure it's felt like a kids show since Tom Baker; many of the problems that killed the original were because it was caught up in the moral hand-wringing of the eighties and couldn't find a place to fit. That's one thing this new version has seemed to have successfully navigated, though it seems tp have lost the magic I enjoyed as a kid, enjoying a show that didn't really seem to be regular kids fare.

Date: 2017-06-06 12:15 pm (UTC)
elisi: (When We Were Very Young by kathyh)
From: [personal profile] elisi
I'd call Doctor Who a family show overall - it's shown on BBC1 rather than a children's channel.

When it came back in 2005 I made sure to watch it with the children as I knew it was a British institution and wanted them to be part of it.

It's a touchstone of British culture, basically. You'll not find a British person who isn't aware of it, and TARDIS, Daleks and Cybermen are concepts everyone knows. (TARDIS is the basic term for something that is bigger on the inside f.ex.)

Date: 2017-06-06 01:09 pm (UTC)
cjlasky7: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cjlasky7
I think the American experience of Doctor Who is slightly different from the UK's.

Remember, U.S. audiences didn't see anything of Doctor Who until the Tom Baker era, so the original, more kid-friendly material had already faded into the background. The Fourth Doctor episodes were broadcast on U.S. public television (yes, the home of Sesame Street); but as a kid, I never got the impression that it was a kids' show. It was just that "weird British show on PBS."

American TV didn't broadcast Doctors Five through Seven, so we never saw Ace (who would have been big with American kids) or Adric (we dodged a bullet). The next Who on American screens was the 1996 movie, which wasn't kid stuff. (I think Eric Roberts' scenery-chewing would have permanently scarred a young child...)

When Russell T. Davies reimagined DW in 2005, he used Buffy as a template, and it really wasn't your father's Doctor Who anymore.

But the original kid-friendly DW occasionally peeks through. Moffat seems to be a big fan of fairy tales, and eps like "The Snowmen" and "The Doctor, the Widow and the Wardrobe" are perfect family fare. And I think even RTD got nostalgic for the family-friendly show from his childhood; the Sarah Jane Adventures hit the same sweet spot. That show--and its heroine--are greatly missed.


Edited Date: 2017-06-06 01:25 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-06-06 01:23 pm (UTC)
peasant: sweet pea (Default)
From: [personal profile] peasant
Definitely a kid's show. It is shown early evening on a Saturday, which is a kid's slot. Or rather a family slot, so it is assumed kids will be watching but that might be with their parents.

Ideas like the farting Slitheen, dinosaurs, Daleks v. Cybermen, the Titanic crashing into the Tardis, and most recently the elephant on the ice, are very much pitched at kids.

The youth of the overwhelming majority of the companions is to help kids have a pair of young (and generally rather uninformed) eyes to see the Doctor through and ask the questions they would ask.

The amount of running around (slightly reduced since Capaldi took over because of his age) is aimed at kids.

The fact the Doctor never uses guns and scorns those who do is a message aimed at kids.

Can't think of any more for the moment, but overall it is talked about as a kids' show and assumed that every child will start watching it once they are old enough. My nephew is nearly 9 and he has just started.

Date: 2017-06-06 04:06 pm (UTC)
peasant: sweet pea (Default)
From: [personal profile] peasant
One relevant factor is how few channels we have compared to you. Until about 2000 there were only four channels, apart from Sky, which is a subscription-only satellite broadcaster. Then they launched the Freeview digital channels, which included a couple of dedicated channels for children's programmes. So when the new Doctor Who launched in 2005 the idea of children's programmes being on a separate channel was only in its infancy and 'normal' children's TV was still on the four main channels, only differentiated by time slot.

It was therefore natural to give Doctor Who the coveted 'Saturday teatime' slot on BBC1 (BBC1 is channel #1 on all British sets). That slot means not just children but also family viewing and bored older people without children who have happen to have nothing to do on an early Saturday evening. Add in the adults who tuned in because they have happy memories of the show from their own childhood and you actually get a very mixed audience.

But, as I think said somewhere else, it isn't culturally acceptable for an adult to admit they watch sci-fi so it is always described as a kid's show. However, it remains the only home-grown sci-fi or fantasy show that normal adults do sometimes watch without the cover of watching it with children, although most of them will be very, very shy about admitting it. The only other shows to break through that barrier are Game of Thrones and Lost, both of which are clearly adult shows to the British mind.

If Doctor Who was a new programme today, it would probably be relegated to the kids' channels and no adult would even know it existed. And then it would be more obviously for children.

Date: 2017-06-06 06:13 pm (UTC)
peasant: sweet pea (Default)
From: [personal profile] peasant
Well, I think I had better qualify my statement before other Brits come charging in and contradict me.

Firstly, it isn't acceptable in my class and social circle. It is possible there are other classes and social sub-groups out there where it is more acceptable. But in my social group I only admit I am a fan to my very closest friends and they treat me with tolerant scorn as a lovable eccentric.

Secondly, it is in fact a little more socially acceptable than it used to be say ten years ago. For example the other day there was a photo in the paper which was just captioned 'fans dressed in costume at the London Comic Convention'. It was admittedly in the position they usually reserve for pictures of exotic wildlife or bizarre weather phenomena, but that is still progress. Because a few years ago the only mention of fans would have been an article with a title like 'The Sub-Culture In The Basement' which would basically have been an intrepid reporter filing an anthropological report such as a Victorian explorer might have sent back about a newly discovered Amazonian tribe. About the same level of sexual prurience as well. And ten years before that nobody outside said basements knew fandom existed.

So I grew up in a respectable rural place and had no idea comics or fanfic or conventions or any of the rest of it existed. My obsessing was done entirely solo.

going to the UK for a Ph'd in Science Fiction Studies at the Center for Sci-Fi Studies in Cambridge
That is cool. Academia is different of course, they can study anything they like. Also Cambridge is part of a different country comprising London, Cambridge, Bristol and a small patch of Brighton - they have very little in common with the rest of us.

Date: 2017-06-06 06:57 pm (UTC)
cjlasky7: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cjlasky7
It blows my mind that there is a reluctance to "out" yourself as a grownup sci-fi fan in certain segments of British society, when I have spent most of my adult life as a huge fan of BRITISH sci-fi.

Along with Doctor Who and its various spinoffs, I've devoured Red Dwarf, Blake's 7, the Quatermass trilogy, Douglas Adams, the novels of John Wyndham (The Midwich Cuckoos & Day of the Triffids), the movies based on those novels--not to mention Edgar Wright, Simon Pegg and Nick Frost's salute to Wyndham in World's End....

England is where you find the COOL SciFi!
Edited Date: 2017-06-06 10:01 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-06-07 11:42 am (UTC)
peasant: sweet pea (Default)
From: [personal profile] peasant
Maybe the fact it isn't really socially acceptable plays into how we write it? Certainly things like the Doctor Who episode Love and Monsters come out of it. And part of why Red Dwarf is funny is that it is poking fun at space opera tropes because everyone watching knows that sci-fi is really about a bunch of messy inadequates without proper friends who end up trapped with one another by default. Red Dwarf is basically the audience looking at itself.

Date: 2017-06-07 12:38 pm (UTC)
peasant: sweet pea (Default)
From: [personal profile] peasant
I like Big Bang Theory! But I watch it through the lens of having a father who is a scientist and fits pretty much all the clich├ęs except the ones about being fannish. I guess that might be a generational thing.

most sci-fi fans I've met are pretty much like everyone else
Whereas for me they are very much a different tribe to my RL friends. Their outlook on pretty much everything is just different. This is part of why I don't always feel I fit in fandom.

Date: 2017-06-08 11:52 am (UTC)
peasant: sweet pea (Default)
From: [personal profile] peasant
looked like Spike. He had a black leather jacket, black boots, an earring in his ear, white blond curly hair...and a California accent.

Ha ha.

Looking back it is easy to forget how different Spike was. I know there were a few precedents for modern vampires in things like The Lost Boys, but the basic default idea of a vampire was still velvet and long hair. So I find I am slightly disappointed to discover his look was a generic one. ;)

Date: 2017-06-08 11:54 am (UTC)
peasant: sweet pea (Default)
From: [personal profile] peasant
But I've never gone to a con, or really participated in fandom to the degree most have. Wrote very little fanfic for example -- mostly meta.

The only cons I've been to were some of the very small UK ones. Never more than 20-30 people, most of whom I already knew online. They were fun, but after a few times the RL differences between us were too strident so I doubt I'll go back again.

Date: 2017-06-07 02:22 pm (UTC)
cjlasky7: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cjlasky7
"Love and Monsters" was definitely about DW fandom, but I think that's a very specific case. I classify Red Dwarf in the same category as the Hitchhiker novels, i.e., cosmic-level absurdism.

Dave Lister isn't so much a nerd as a layabout, drifting without motivation or purpose. So whether he's hanging out in a pub with the rest of humanity's layabouts, or hanging out with Kryten, Cat and HoloRimmer 3 million years in the future, it's all pretty much the same: what's the point of it all? What do I do next?

At their best, the Grant/Naylor team shared Douglas Adams' rare gift of rendering the terrifying randomness and absurdity of the universe in a way that almost brightens your spirits as you slowly work your way toward the void. You Brits are good at that...

Date: 2017-06-08 11:35 am (UTC)
peasant: sweet pea (Default)
From: [personal profile] peasant
I classify Red Dwarf in the same category as the Hitchhiker novels, i.e., cosmic-level absurdism.
Ha ha, yes.

At their best, the Grant/Naylor team shared Douglas Adams' rare gift of rendering the terrifying randomness and absurdity of the universe in a way that almost brightens your spirits as you slowly work your way toward the void. You Brits are good at that...
It's because all the people who found the randomness and absurdity frustrating emigrated centuries ago. The modern native Brit is descended from a long line of people who didn't get up and go, either because they were doing very nicely or because they didn't give a toss.

Date: 2017-06-08 11:40 am (UTC)
londonkds: (Default)
From: [personal profile] londonkds
I suspect that Red Dwarf got made because BBC executives thought of it as a parody of how stupid and pathetic SF works and fans were, as opposed to Grant Naylor. This was the generation of BBC leadership that cancelled Doctor Who and hardly made any more SF or fantasy (apart from the odd technothriller or work of magic realism where the fantasy elements could easily be written off as imagination, coincidence, or delusion) until the 21st century, largely because they despised the genre.

Date: 2017-06-08 01:30 pm (UTC)
cjlasky7: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cjlasky7
But the series' respect for classic SF (in the service of comedy, of course) is exactly why Red Dwarf worked, and why it's still going. (BBC America isn't showing the new eps over here. Are they any good?)

Finding the right mix of fantastical and funny while staying true to the characters is extremely difficult. Americans have tried to do sci-fi comedies for generations; Futurama and Galaxy Quest are probably the only watchable output.
Edited Date: 2017-06-08 01:46 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-06-08 03:10 pm (UTC)
londonkds: (Default)
From: [personal profile] londonkds
I watched the first few seasons of Red Dwarf but haven't seen the most recent ones.

Date: 2017-06-08 05:55 pm (UTC)
cjlasky7: (Default)
From: [personal profile] cjlasky7
Don't know Scalzi. Gonna have to check him out.

Can't believe I forgot Rick and Morty! Very funny, but plunges deeper into existential terror than almost anything else in the subgenre.

Trailers for The Orville look promising, but Seth is notoriously hit or miss. We'll see.
Edited Date: 2017-06-08 06:00 pm (UTC)

Date: 2017-06-07 11:36 am (UTC)
peasant: sweet pea (Default)
From: [personal profile] peasant
by the way the correct terminology is not normal, but mainstream

Ha ha. I will consider myself duly corrected :D

Date: 2017-06-07 05:30 pm (UTC)
yourlibrarian: StoryGathering_crystalsc (BUF-StoryGathering_crystalsc)
From: [personal profile] yourlibrarian
So, Sense8 does end on a big cliffhanger plot-wise, in that both seasons have been building up to a certain event which finally occurs. And I actually found large segments of S1 too slow. However, it's unlike most other stuff on TV in a number of ways; other people have clearly not found it as uneven as I have; and I did enjoy S2 and found it a distinct improvement and am sorry to hear about the cancellation. So my recommendation is that it's worth checking out regardless. If it turns out it really grabs you then despite the ending you'll probably feel it was worth watching.

Date: 2017-06-08 11:43 am (UTC)
londonkds: (under-rated but cool)
From: [personal profile] londonkds
As other people have said, Doctor Who is thought of as an all-ages show in Britain, although I think the current series is too frightening for very small children. I think Moffat himself has said that it's for everyone from slightly older children up.

One interesting thing to me is that during the original 1960s-1980s era there were very regular controversies about Doctor Who being too violent or too frightening for children, especially during the show's more grimdark eras under Hinchcliff and Holmes in the mid-70s or Eric Saward in the mid-80s. There's been nothing of the kind this century even after some quite horrific episodes.
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