Remember what Whedon said a while back? Trust the tale not the teller?
If I were trying to sell these comics to fans, personally, I would plead the fifth. But that's because I'm not a good liar. Allie? A very very good liar. Remember Allie and Jeanty are trying to get Bangel fans to buy the comics. They are going to say whatever is possible to keep these people buying comics. I remember back in 2002 - Fury convincing fans that Spike was going to get his chip removed and never ever would be good or get a soul - Fury is a great liar. Noxon did the same. Also a good liar. Whedon just sat back and grinned.
I've learned to take what writers and creators and editors state about their story with a hefty grain of salt. I mean come on - this is the guy who promised his fans that he'd never kill off Tara and literally put her in the front credits in the episode in which he killed her.
All you have to do is watch Doctor Horrible to see what Whedon thinks of Bangel and Angel's superman complex for that matter. Or just re-read the Riley comic - which more or less underlines it. Angel believes that by doing evil he does good. That he does not have to change, that he has to change the world. And Buffy has said repeatedly throughout the series that she can't trust Angel, that she doesn't know what he is thinking, and they never did talking very well. Unless you think true love is never really talking outside of lovey dovey sonnets, and not being able to trust the other person enough to tell them anything meaningful...and trust me, Whedon and Allie don't think that.
I don't see anything in these comics, not a thing that shows me this is true love. What I see is two people frakking each other's brains out then talking about how great it was. Spike and Buffy had longer and more productive conversations in S6. Considering they are showing me how close Buffy and Spike are, how comfortable they are with each other, how she can tell him anything, how she can tell him about Angel and note - in stark contrast, she isn't able to tell Angel anything at all. She just basks in the glow.
A nice comparison is actually Hank and Giles. Hank in S2 tells Joyce how Buffy never talked to him, that he couldn't get her to tell him anything. Yet Giles is able to get her to tell him everything in When She Was Bad. Giles keeps saying he's not her father, but he is clearly her father. Hank slowly, gradually disappears.
Spike and Angel are both much older than Buffy, and both show up and get sexually involved with her when Hank and Giles disappear. Hank disappears from her life in S2, Angel gets involved with her - to the point he takes her ice-skating, like Hank did. It was an activity Whedon makes clear was associated with Hank. Giles takes off in S6, and Buffy literally falls into Spike's arms. Even tells him she kissed him because of how she felt about Giles. Also in S5, when Spike falls for Buffy, Giles is feeling less capable of being her Watcher, and Spike takes on that role more and more. In S1 - Buffy is struggling with losing Hank, her fears, and how his thoughts are unknowable, Angel is introduced at that time. Also, Angel is a lot like her father in some respects, and like her father goes to LA.
Whedon doesn't care about the romance and isn't really catering that much to shippers, he is however making fun of them - he always has, in both commentary and in the show. But snark does go over people's heads. I mean, how people could still ship the couple after I Will Always Remember You? I'll never understand. Or Sancturary. We see what we want to see, I think.
I remember during S5 ATS, a Spuffy Shipper told me that she was convinced the end of ATS S5 would have Angel shanshuing and going off into the sunset with Buffy - at least that was the rumor she heard. I laughed. No, I told her. It's more likely Whedon will have them all dying in an alley sort of like the Wild Bunch. This is noir story with a clear anti-hero. Angel isn't going to shanshu or get Buffy, unless its in a horrifically bad way. Whedon is first and foremost a horror writer.
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If I were trying to sell these comics to fans, personally, I would plead the fifth. But that's because I'm not a good liar. Allie? A very very good liar. Remember Allie and Jeanty are trying to get Bangel fans to buy the comics. They are going to say whatever is possible to keep these people buying comics. I remember back in 2002 - Fury convincing fans that Spike was going to get his chip removed and never ever would be good or get a soul - Fury is a great liar. Noxon did the same. Also a good liar. Whedon just sat back and grinned.
I've learned to take what writers and creators and editors state about their story with a hefty grain of salt. I mean come on - this is the guy who promised his fans that he'd never kill off Tara and literally put her in the front credits in the episode in which he killed her.
All you have to do is watch Doctor Horrible to see what Whedon thinks of Bangel and Angel's superman complex for that matter. Or just re-read the Riley comic - which more or less underlines it. Angel believes that by doing evil he does good. That he does not have to change, that he has to change the world. And Buffy has said repeatedly throughout the series that she can't trust Angel, that she doesn't know what he is thinking, and they never did talking very well. Unless you think true love is never really talking outside of lovey dovey sonnets, and not being able to trust the other person enough to tell them anything meaningful...and trust me, Whedon and Allie don't think that.
I don't see anything in these comics, not a thing that shows me this is true love. What I see is two people frakking each other's brains out then talking about how great it was. Spike and Buffy had longer and more productive conversations in S6. Considering they are showing me how close Buffy and Spike are, how comfortable they are with each other, how she can tell him anything, how she can tell him about Angel and note - in stark contrast, she isn't able to tell Angel anything at all. She just basks in the glow.
A nice comparison is actually Hank and Giles. Hank in S2 tells Joyce how Buffy never talked to him, that he couldn't get her to tell him anything. Yet Giles is able to get her to tell him everything in When She Was Bad. Giles keeps saying he's not her father, but he is clearly her father. Hank slowly, gradually disappears.
Spike and Angel are both much older than Buffy, and both show up and get sexually involved with her when Hank and Giles disappear.
Hank disappears from her life in S2, Angel gets involved with her - to the point he takes her ice-skating, like Hank did. It was an activity Whedon makes clear was associated with Hank. Giles takes off in S6, and Buffy literally falls into Spike's arms. Even tells him she kissed him because of how she felt about Giles. Also in S5, when Spike falls for Buffy, Giles is feeling less capable of being her Watcher, and Spike takes on that role more and more. In S1 - Buffy is struggling with losing Hank, her fears, and how his thoughts are unknowable, Angel is introduced at that time. Also, Angel is a lot like her father in some respects, and like her father goes to LA.
Whedon doesn't care about the romance and isn't really catering that much to shippers, he is however making fun of them - he always has, in both commentary and in the show. But snark does go over people's heads. I mean, how people could still ship the couple after I Will Always Remember You? I'll never understand. Or Sancturary. We see what we want to see, I think.
I remember during S5 ATS, a Spuffy Shipper told me that she was convinced the end of ATS S5 would have Angel shanshuing and going off into the sunset with Buffy - at least that was the rumor she heard. I laughed. No, I told her. It's more likely Whedon will have them all dying in an alley sort of like the Wild Bunch. This is noir story with a clear anti-hero. Angel isn't going to shanshu or get Buffy, unless its in a horrifically bad way. Whedon is first and foremost a horror writer.