I don't think the Standard Theory makes sense in either series. Because, if true, there's no way Spike would have sought a soul. Also he wouldn't have been capable of loving Buffy in the way that he did. He'd have raped her and called it a day.
On Angel - I think Angel himself believes in the Standard Theory as did Darla. Neither appear to believe that you can seek to do good without a soul.
HOWEVER...there's another way of looking at it. Darla informs Angelus that what you were informs the vampire. The emotions, desires, wants, memories, fears, etc...the personality remains. The only difference is you are now connected to evil or the desire to destroy life. You are immortal, and do not value life.
So yes, you can love, and you can want to please a parental figure.
WHILE this theory is more or less consistently upheld plot-wise in Angel's story. (And yes, I agree the whole redemption story doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense with the theory in place, and is evidence of the writer wanting his cake and eat it too. Which is why I think it works better on a metaphorical level and not a literal one. I honestly don't think Whedon and his fellow writers thought literally...they appeared to be grabbing demons that represented whatever theme or moral they wanted to explore each week. Hence the inconsistencies. It works if you don't think about it too hard, nor do I think the writers intended you to think that hard about it. ) This theory is not consistently upheld in the Buffyverse - mainly because they were busy playing with a separate set of metaphors. I mean it does to a degree, and yes, you can state that the chip may have changed things bit...weakened the vampire soul, whatever...but it makes no sense from a redemption perspective.
The only way the Standard Theory works is for Spike to have been cursed with a soul or forced to get one or got one by accident. (That's what Malandaza was so upset when it was proven that Spike chose his soul and it wasn't given to him by accident - because that threw the Standard Theory out the window. It's also a lot of other fans got so upset. Because basically it put everything the Watcher Council told Buffy into question. That works really well from a metaphorical angle, actually, if you are telling a coming of age story - at some point your protagonist has to question what she's been taught and realize it's not so simple. So that works. But if you are looking at if from a literal rules of the world angle, it doesn't work at all, and you're left sputtering. Keep in mind the television writers were fare more interested in the metaphorical angle and writing with that goal in mind, they really didn't care that much about the literal rules of the world angle. (Well one or two did, but they were out-voted.))
no subject
On Angel - I think Angel himself believes in the Standard Theory as did Darla. Neither appear to believe that you can seek to do good without a soul.
HOWEVER...there's another way of looking at it. Darla informs Angelus that what you were informs the vampire. The emotions, desires, wants, memories, fears, etc...the personality remains. The only difference is you are now connected to evil or the desire to destroy life. You are immortal, and do not value life.
So yes, you can love, and you can want to please a parental figure.
WHILE this theory is more or less consistently upheld plot-wise in Angel's story. (And yes, I agree the whole redemption story doesn't make a heck of a lot of sense with the theory in place, and is evidence of the writer wanting his cake and eat it too. Which is why I think it works better on a metaphorical level and not a literal one. I honestly don't think Whedon and his fellow writers thought literally...they appeared to be grabbing demons that represented whatever theme or moral they wanted to explore each week.
Hence the inconsistencies. It works if you don't think about it too hard, nor do I think the writers intended you to think that hard about it. ) This theory is not consistently upheld in the Buffyverse - mainly because they were busy playing with a separate set of metaphors. I mean it does to a degree, and yes, you can state that the chip may have
changed things bit...weakened the vampire soul, whatever...but it makes no sense from a redemption perspective.
The only way the Standard Theory works is for Spike to have been cursed with a soul or forced to get one or got one by accident. (That's what Malandaza was so upset when it was proven that Spike chose his soul and it wasn't given to him by accident - because that threw the Standard Theory out the window. It's also a lot of other fans got so upset. Because basically it put everything the Watcher Council told Buffy into question. That works really well from a metaphorical angle, actually, if you are telling a coming of age story - at some point your protagonist has to question what she's been taught and realize it's not so simple. So that works. But if you are looking at if from a literal rules of the world angle, it doesn't work at all, and you're left sputtering. Keep in mind the television writers were fare more interested in the metaphorical angle and writing with that goal in mind, they really didn't care that much about the literal rules of the world angle. (Well one or two did, but they were out-voted.))