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Discussion with mother about books...and podcasts.
Me: So, I've discovered this pod-cast - The Wicked Wallflower - basically its two women, former archaeologists/current writers discussing the romance genre, or defending it. The only problem, is I sort had to get past the envy factor - which was slightly distracting.
Mother: Envy factor?
Me: One of them is a former archaeologist, whose gone to all these great sites, and a former dominatrix who is married to a 6'5 Alpha Male Sex God who stepped out of a romance novel.
Mother (bursts out laughing)
Me: I'm thinking honey, you might not want to brag about that. She goes on an on about how caring and gentle and great in bed he is.
Mother: Hmmm...
Me: And how this is proof that romance is not unbelievable fantasy.
Mother: That's sounding like some serious fantasizing to me. What better place to make up stuff and fantasize than on a podcast?
Me: Yeah, this occurred to me too as I was describing it to you. I mean really, how do we know she's not making this stuff up? It's very easy to lie on the internet, particularly on podcasts.
Mother: So, I'm reading "I AM PILGRIM" for my book club. It's about 792 pages. And it's a weird book for a book club -- it's a thriller about a guy hunting a terrorist. The protagonist spends about a 100 pages with the CIA explaining in detail how waterboarding works, and they are waterboarding this guy to get information -- but are unable to get it because he shits in his pants..
ME: Ugh. I don't want to know --
Mother: Then he visits this warlord who pours concrete onto his enemies while they are alive, so that they are forever cast screaming, then hangs the concrete masks on his walls...meanwhile the antagonist -
Me:Wait, this isn't the antagonist?
Mother: No, the antagonist was hurt really badly by the Saudis and has decided that the best way to destroy the Saudis is to hurt Americans. So he develops this deadly strain of small-pox that can run through any vaccination or basically the vaccine won't work against. See, they never cured small pox, they just developed a vaccine and that's how they eradicated it. So if you come up with a deadly strain it will overtake it.
ME: Ugh...
Mother: Anyhow, he, the antagonist, asks the warlord for three prisoners -- they can be anybody. The Warlord advises against Americans because they get angry -- so he gives him a pregnant Italian woman, and two men. The antagonist puts them in a concrete cell with food and water and bedding. Then he vaccinates the Italian Woman against small pox, and injects the two men with the strain -- while they've been sedated. The men give the woman the small pox and all three die horrific deaths.
Me: This sounds horrible. Ugh, the writer has one nasty imagination. Proof the human mind is capable of horrible, horrible things.
Mother: Yeah, well I'm on page 400, and there's 792 pages, so I'm wondering what's next.
Me: I'm amazed you are able to read this -
Mother: Well you know that these sort of things don't tend to bother me...but I'm not sure how we are going to discuss it in book club. That's the problem with mystery novels and thrillers -- there really isn't much to discuss -- it's all laid out there. At least romance novels have more to them to discuss, such as the relationships between the people, motivations, etc -- here there's a clear bad guy who wants revenge and a good guy to stop him, and obviously he will, because I don't think they will kill off the entire US.
ME: Not unless it is a Stephen King novel or a dystopian novel. There''s really only three books that I've hated or disliked...or so I was telling someone online -- and one of them American Psycho, I stopped because ...well, I couldn't handle the rape by rat.
Mother: Okay, now that, I would have problems with and be unable to finish reading.
See? This is why I'm reading romance novels. Although the ones that the Wicked Wallflowers like, I'm not as crazy about -- the writing is rather amateurish and the men over-idealized in some of them. Also, I don't see Diana Galbadron's Outlander as a classic.
They think they can convince men to read them and don't understand why there's no cross-over. After all, if women can read action comic books. (Sigh, they don't get it. And, uh, good luck with that.)
First of all - there are men who read romance novels. I have a male co-worker who loved The Outlander series of books, enjoyed Fifty Shades of Grey, and the Twilight novels. He pretty much reads all genres. And his happily married and well into his 60s, a huge Doctor Who fan, and a bright guy.
Second -- of the men who don't? Most men I know don't tend to read fiction, they read non-fiction and prefer -- if fiction - that it be plot-centric and informative.
Many have or will read comics -- because it's like watching an action movie. They read for information, not necessarily character or relationships.
Also, many romance novels idealize the male form or men -- we are looking at men through the female gaze -- and often objectifying it, which would hardly be appealing to some men. Even slash romance novels (m/m) are looking at men through the female gaze. In action comics -- one of the critiques is that we are looking at women through the male gaze. But having read both? I'd say we're looking through both gazes. The male and female body is highly sexualized and objectified in our culture -- and in most genre fiction. Heck in the pod-cast the women are objectifying the male form -- "I'm married to a 6'5 Alpha Male Sex God", really? As if, the 5'6 somewhat beta, guy, can't be one?
And there are men who enjoy romance novels (not many) and women who enjoy superhero comics (not many), and like both.
So, while I found the podcast interesting, like most podcasts ...I get irritated with the sub-tangents. I like Smartbitches a tad better.
Me: So, I've discovered this pod-cast - The Wicked Wallflower - basically its two women, former archaeologists/current writers discussing the romance genre, or defending it. The only problem, is I sort had to get past the envy factor - which was slightly distracting.
Mother: Envy factor?
Me: One of them is a former archaeologist, whose gone to all these great sites, and a former dominatrix who is married to a 6'5 Alpha Male Sex God who stepped out of a romance novel.
Mother (bursts out laughing)
Me: I'm thinking honey, you might not want to brag about that. She goes on an on about how caring and gentle and great in bed he is.
Mother: Hmmm...
Me: And how this is proof that romance is not unbelievable fantasy.
Mother: That's sounding like some serious fantasizing to me. What better place to make up stuff and fantasize than on a podcast?
Me: Yeah, this occurred to me too as I was describing it to you. I mean really, how do we know she's not making this stuff up? It's very easy to lie on the internet, particularly on podcasts.
Mother: So, I'm reading "I AM PILGRIM" for my book club. It's about 792 pages. And it's a weird book for a book club -- it's a thriller about a guy hunting a terrorist. The protagonist spends about a 100 pages with the CIA explaining in detail how waterboarding works, and they are waterboarding this guy to get information -- but are unable to get it because he shits in his pants..
ME: Ugh. I don't want to know --
Mother: Then he visits this warlord who pours concrete onto his enemies while they are alive, so that they are forever cast screaming, then hangs the concrete masks on his walls...meanwhile the antagonist -
Me:Wait, this isn't the antagonist?
Mother: No, the antagonist was hurt really badly by the Saudis and has decided that the best way to destroy the Saudis is to hurt Americans. So he develops this deadly strain of small-pox that can run through any vaccination or basically the vaccine won't work against. See, they never cured small pox, they just developed a vaccine and that's how they eradicated it. So if you come up with a deadly strain it will overtake it.
ME: Ugh...
Mother: Anyhow, he, the antagonist, asks the warlord for three prisoners -- they can be anybody. The Warlord advises against Americans because they get angry -- so he gives him a pregnant Italian woman, and two men. The antagonist puts them in a concrete cell with food and water and bedding. Then he vaccinates the Italian Woman against small pox, and injects the two men with the strain -- while they've been sedated. The men give the woman the small pox and all three die horrific deaths.
Me: This sounds horrible. Ugh, the writer has one nasty imagination. Proof the human mind is capable of horrible, horrible things.
Mother: Yeah, well I'm on page 400, and there's 792 pages, so I'm wondering what's next.
Me: I'm amazed you are able to read this -
Mother: Well you know that these sort of things don't tend to bother me...but I'm not sure how we are going to discuss it in book club. That's the problem with mystery novels and thrillers -- there really isn't much to discuss -- it's all laid out there. At least romance novels have more to them to discuss, such as the relationships between the people, motivations, etc -- here there's a clear bad guy who wants revenge and a good guy to stop him, and obviously he will, because I don't think they will kill off the entire US.
ME: Not unless it is a Stephen King novel or a dystopian novel. There''s really only three books that I've hated or disliked...or so I was telling someone online -- and one of them American Psycho, I stopped because ...well, I couldn't handle the rape by rat.
Mother: Okay, now that, I would have problems with and be unable to finish reading.
See? This is why I'm reading romance novels. Although the ones that the Wicked Wallflowers like, I'm not as crazy about -- the writing is rather amateurish and the men over-idealized in some of them. Also, I don't see Diana Galbadron's Outlander as a classic.
They think they can convince men to read them and don't understand why there's no cross-over. After all, if women can read action comic books. (Sigh, they don't get it. And, uh, good luck with that.)
First of all - there are men who read romance novels. I have a male co-worker who loved The Outlander series of books, enjoyed Fifty Shades of Grey, and the Twilight novels. He pretty much reads all genres. And his happily married and well into his 60s, a huge Doctor Who fan, and a bright guy.
Second -- of the men who don't? Most men I know don't tend to read fiction, they read non-fiction and prefer -- if fiction - that it be plot-centric and informative.
Many have or will read comics -- because it's like watching an action movie. They read for information, not necessarily character or relationships.
Also, many romance novels idealize the male form or men -- we are looking at men through the female gaze -- and often objectifying it, which would hardly be appealing to some men. Even slash romance novels (m/m) are looking at men through the female gaze. In action comics -- one of the critiques is that we are looking at women through the male gaze. But having read both? I'd say we're looking through both gazes. The male and female body is highly sexualized and objectified in our culture -- and in most genre fiction. Heck in the pod-cast the women are objectifying the male form -- "I'm married to a 6'5 Alpha Male Sex God", really? As if, the 5'6 somewhat beta, guy, can't be one?
And there are men who enjoy romance novels (not many) and women who enjoy superhero comics (not many), and like both.
So, while I found the podcast interesting, like most podcasts ...I get irritated with the sub-tangents. I like Smartbitches a tad better.