With poetry, you've got the subjective -- did it do what you meant? -- and the objective, did it fit the chosen form if any? As long as you're happy with it, that's enough. If you want to sell it, then the bar is somewhat higher.
Well, yes and no? I'm on the fence about this. It's kind of like baking an apple pie? Some people just don't like apple pie. Some do. That's obviously subjective. Apple pie in of itself doesn't really have a "functional" purpose - ie, you don't necessarily need "apple pie" but life is better for a lot of folks with it than without? Also subjective. But, how you make apple pie or the ingredients are for the most part objective. It should be made in a "pie" shape, or it's not accurately pie, and it needs to be made from apples (or it's not apple pie), and you should have sugar, some type of thickener or liquid such as maybe lemon juice, although not necessary, some use gelatin (not a fan), so there are options that are subjective within that. Plus there should probably be a crust - although you could try a crustless pie, but that's usually a crumble. And the crust can be water, butter, lard, and various types of flours and a touch of salt depending on tolerance. And if you are baking for a contest or competition or just a bake shop and selling the pie? It helps to know the type of apple pie they prefer, and the tastes of those buying or judging the pies. (ie. don't bake a regular wheat flour pie if the shop is "gluten-free" only.) That's both objective and subjective simultaneously?
Likewise with a poem? There are clearly different forms, and everyone has their preferences. Some love Haiku, some love Iambic Pentameter (or Sonnets), some free verse, some limerick, some canto, etc. (I've not studied, written or edited poetry since the 20th century, so ....and how weird that I can just say that without putting a date on it.) Anyhow, if you are entering a Haiku contest or submitting a Haiku for publication - it clearly should be a Haiku and conform to those rules. However - which Haiku out of twenty Haiku's that all fit the rules is chosen? That's subjective.
Same with buying something. Back to the pie analogy? If you prefer a tart pie - you may turn away from one made with extra sugar, and no lemon or with Macintosh apples. But if you don't like a tart pie, and hate lemon - then you'll want one with Macintosh, sugar, and cinnamon, unless of course you are allergic to cinnamon, then not so much.
With poetry? I may love the poem about a Red Balloon, but hate the one about the Clown. It has zip to do with how well written the poems are. If I'm willing to pay for the Red Balloon poem over the Clown poem, that doesn't say anything about the quality of either poem, any more than it would if I bought say an Apple pie with no cinnamon and no lemon, over say the one with both. It tells you more about me than the poems or pies.
Most criticism tends to tell us more about the person doing the criticism than the object of it.
So, I think the bar isn't necessarily higher for publication? Just that the tastes may be more "specific" or "difficult"? Not always the case of course. Some people can be rather snobbish about their tastes - and think, well, all apple pies must have cinnamon, and it is blasphemous to have an apple pie with a gluten-free crust or without lemon in it. Same with poetry? Some people may be rather specific on what a Haiku must sound and look like and what it should be about. Certain metaphors don't work for them at all. This is true in fiction and novels as well. I've run into editors who can't handle conversational prose, using the word "can't" would give them a fit while the text requires it - because that is simply how the character speaks. But some editors believe that we should not write as we speak, and only formally. That's subjective taste not objective.
(I edit construction contracts, legal memorandum, technical scopes of work, specifications, and financial justifications in my line of work, among other things - so format nitpickiness is something I'm familiar with. They get upset in my workplace if the margins don't align, and the correct verbiage. Whether this is really objective, or just an individual manager's quirk - I'm not certain? I mean do we really require the word henceforth and hereby and wherefore in the text? I think no. But I digress.)
Re: Thoughts
Well, yes and no? I'm on the fence about this. It's kind of like baking an apple pie? Some people just don't like apple pie. Some do. That's obviously subjective. Apple pie in of itself doesn't really have a "functional" purpose - ie, you don't necessarily need "apple pie" but life is better for a lot of folks with it than without? Also subjective. But, how you make apple pie or the ingredients are for the most part objective. It should be made in a "pie" shape, or it's not accurately pie, and it needs to be made from apples (or it's not apple pie), and you should have sugar, some type of thickener or liquid such as maybe lemon juice, although not necessary, some use gelatin (not a fan), so there are options that are subjective within that. Plus there should probably be a crust - although you could try a crustless pie, but that's usually a crumble. And the crust can be water, butter, lard, and various types of flours and a touch of salt depending on tolerance. And if you are baking for a contest or competition or just a bake shop and selling the pie? It helps to know the type of apple pie they prefer, and the tastes of those buying or judging the pies. (ie. don't bake a regular wheat flour pie if the shop is "gluten-free" only.) That's both objective and subjective simultaneously?
Likewise with a poem? There are clearly different forms, and everyone has their preferences. Some love Haiku, some love Iambic Pentameter (or Sonnets), some free verse, some limerick, some canto, etc. (I've not studied, written or edited poetry since the 20th century, so ....and how weird that I can just say that without putting a date on it.) Anyhow, if you are entering a Haiku contest or submitting a Haiku for publication - it clearly should be a Haiku and conform to those rules. However - which Haiku out of twenty Haiku's that all fit the rules is chosen? That's subjective.
Same with buying something. Back to the pie analogy? If you prefer a tart pie - you may turn away from one made with extra sugar, and no lemon or with Macintosh apples. But if you don't like a tart pie, and hate lemon - then you'll want one with Macintosh, sugar, and cinnamon, unless of course you are allergic to cinnamon, then not so much.
With poetry? I may love the poem about a Red Balloon, but hate the one about the Clown. It has zip to do with how well written the poems are. If I'm willing to pay for the Red Balloon poem over the Clown poem, that doesn't say anything about the quality of either poem, any more than it would if I bought say an Apple pie with no cinnamon and no lemon, over say the one with both. It tells you more about me than the poems or pies.
Most criticism tends to tell us more about the person doing the criticism than the object of it.
So, I think the bar isn't necessarily higher for publication? Just that the tastes may be more "specific" or "difficult"? Not always the case of course. Some people can be rather snobbish about their tastes - and think, well, all apple pies must have cinnamon, and it is blasphemous to have an apple pie with a gluten-free crust or without lemon in it. Same with poetry? Some people may be rather specific on what a Haiku must sound and look like and what it should be about. Certain metaphors don't work for them at all. This is true in fiction and novels as well. I've run into editors who can't handle conversational prose, using the word "can't" would give them a fit while the text requires it - because that is simply how the character speaks. But some editors believe that we should not write as we speak, and only formally. That's subjective taste not objective.
(I edit construction contracts, legal memorandum, technical scopes of work, specifications, and financial justifications in my line of work, among other things - so format nitpickiness is something I'm familiar with. They get upset in my workplace if the margins don't align, and the correct verbiage. Whether this is really objective, or just an individual manager's quirk - I'm not certain? I mean do we really require the word henceforth and hereby and wherefore in the text? I think no. But I digress.)