Good writing will always be at the heart of any good show, the acting can only take things so far... I don't think even the best actor can save a really badly written show .
True, but as many a director/writer and actor has stated a bad actor can and does kill a show.
Regarding Dollhouse? Again, I do like the show. I just am not "fannish" about it. It's rare that I get fannish about things. I'm not a cereal fan like the majority of people I've met on the net And I don't tend to be fannish about celebrities or writers or actors or presidents. I get fannish about the end product. This is hard to explain...
For example - I may fall in love with say Michael Jackson's song Billie Jean and his performance of Billie Jean, but I don't care about Michael Jackson.
Joss Whedon? I enjoy about 75% of his writing. It depends on who he is working with, the project, etc. For example - I could not watch Alien Ressurection, tried. And I don't see myself going to see Cabin in the Woods. I'm NOT a fan of Joss Whedon, I am a fan of some of his works.
See here's the difference - you are a fan of Joss Whedon. While I'm really only a fan of the series Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and the characters within that series - specifically Spike. I was NEVER a fan of James Marsters - I was a fan of "Spike". I was NEVER a fan of Eliza, I was a fan of "Faith". It's sort of like Jim Butcher's Harry Dresden - I am a fan of Harry Dresden but not Jim Butcher. I like the Dresden story, but do not feel compelled to read anything else the writer may write. I might try it.
That said, I do find Whedon to be a fascinating horror writer - who specializes in a category of horror that we rarely see - female psychological horror. He also acts as a bit of a critique of the horror genre. And has a self-deprecating wit that appeals to me. So I have seen or read most of his work. But since Whedon is a collaborative writer - not a writer who works alone a la Jim Butcher or Stephen King or Shirly Jackson, often the quality and appeal of his work depends greatly on who he is collaborating with at the time.
As you know, I'm ambivalent about Tim Minear - whom Whedon clearly adores. The episode Darla - which Minear wrote and directed is just one example. While dark, it ...did not thrill me. I think Mr. Minear has some series issues regarding women and entitlement, and his politics and mine don't quite mesh - this comes out in his writing. But I adore Jane Espenson - who wrote Briar Rose in Dollhouse - one of the best episodes. Minear wrote the episodes that...I hate to say it, did not work for me.
The reason I love Buffy so much is NOT just Whedon. People make the mistake of thinking Whedon did it by himself. This is not true. It was the collaboration. My favorite seasons are the latter ones - partly because of that collaboration - David Fury/Marti Noxon/Jane Espenson/Doug Petrie/Drew Goddard/Drew Greenberg/Rebecca Rand Kirshner/Stephend DeNight/Nick Marc/David Solomon /and of course the cast. I was less fannish about the earlier seasons which had a different writer lineup. It's also why Angel did not work for me at times - I loved the 5th season, which interestingly enough was run by Jeff Bell and Whedon and David Fury, not by Tim Minear and David Greenwalt. There's a definite difference in tone in the last season because of that collaborative change. Same with the 4th season of Angel - another favorite - which was Whedon/Fury and a little of Minear. The first three seasons of Angel were heavily Greenwalt and Tim Minear.
Firefly - same thing - it didn't totally work for me, because of the collaboration: Minear/Whedon with just a touch of Espenson and a few others.
So writing is part of it. And I'm careful about following tv writers around, just as I'm careful about actors and directors - the reason? It's a collaboration. And because of that reason - if it works it is often a miracle. Collaborations are very hard to pull off - too many diverse variables that you have no control over.
Re: Active vs. Passive
Good writing will always be at the heart of any good show, the acting can only take things so far... I don't think even the best actor can save a really badly written show .
True, but as many a director/writer and actor has stated a bad actor can and does kill a show.
Regarding Dollhouse? Again, I do like the show. I just am not "fannish" about it. It's rare that I get fannish about things. I'm not a cereal fan like the majority of people I've met on the net And I don't tend to be fannish about celebrities or writers or actors or presidents. I get fannish about the end product. This is hard to explain...
For example - I may fall in love with say Michael Jackson's song Billie Jean and his performance of Billie Jean, but I don't care about Michael Jackson.
Joss Whedon? I enjoy about 75% of his writing. It depends on who he is working with, the project, etc.
For example - I could not watch Alien Ressurection, tried. And I don't see myself going to see Cabin in the Woods. I'm NOT a fan of Joss Whedon, I am a fan of some of his works.
See here's the difference - you are a fan of Joss Whedon. While I'm really only a fan of the series Buffy the Vampire Slayer, and the characters within that series - specifically Spike. I was NEVER a fan of James Marsters - I was a fan of "Spike". I was NEVER a fan of Eliza, I was a fan of "Faith". It's sort of like Jim Butcher's Harry Dresden - I am a fan of Harry Dresden but not Jim Butcher. I like the Dresden story, but do not feel compelled to read anything else the writer may write. I might try it.
That said, I do find Whedon to be a fascinating horror writer - who specializes in a category of horror that we rarely see - female psychological horror. He also acts as a bit of a critique of the horror genre. And has a self-deprecating wit that appeals to me. So I have seen or read most of his work. But since Whedon is a collaborative writer - not a writer who works alone a la Jim Butcher or Stephen King or Shirly Jackson, often the quality and appeal of his work depends greatly on who he is collaborating with at the time.
As you know, I'm ambivalent about Tim Minear - whom Whedon clearly adores. The episode Darla - which Minear wrote and directed is just one example. While dark, it ...did not thrill me. I think Mr. Minear has some series issues regarding women and entitlement, and his politics and mine don't quite mesh - this comes out in his writing. But I adore Jane Espenson - who wrote Briar Rose in Dollhouse - one of the best episodes. Minear wrote the episodes that...I hate to say it, did not work for me.
The reason I love Buffy so much is NOT just Whedon. People make the mistake of thinking Whedon did it by himself. This is not true. It was the collaboration.
My favorite seasons are the latter ones - partly because of that collaboration - David Fury/Marti Noxon/Jane Espenson/Doug Petrie/Drew Goddard/Drew Greenberg/Rebecca Rand Kirshner/Stephend DeNight/Nick Marc/David Solomon /and of course the cast. I was less fannish about the earlier seasons which had a different writer lineup. It's also why Angel did not work for me at times - I loved the 5th season, which interestingly enough was run by Jeff Bell and Whedon and David Fury, not by Tim Minear and David Greenwalt.
There's a definite difference in tone in the last season because of that collaborative change. Same with the 4th season of Angel - another favorite - which was Whedon/Fury and a little of Minear. The first three seasons of Angel were heavily Greenwalt and Tim Minear.
Firefly - same thing - it didn't totally work for me, because of the collaboration: Minear/Whedon with just a touch of Espenson and a few others.
So writing is part of it. And I'm careful about following tv writers around, just as I'm careful about actors and directors - the reason? It's a collaboration. And because of that reason - if it works it is often a miracle. Collaborations are very hard to pull off - too many diverse variables that you have no control over.