True. But I think it's okay to fantasize about it...to look down that what-if path. There's a line of course that needs to be drawn. Video games such as Rape-Play should not be permitted.
But..tv shows like Breaking Bad? Where power is achieved through increased violence...and in the real world? Walt would in prison or dead. I shrug off.
I do believe you that there are novels where the "But secretly she wants it" trope is done in way that does not feel like the oldest rape defence in the book, but my experience with romances is really very limited because what I read was so massively misogynist.
That's why I think you need to read a wide wide range in a genre before critiquing or commenting on it. For example - I know women who perceive the Western genre as misogynistic. It's not. Or the noir genre as misogynistic - yes and no, but no not really. Some sure. But actually that's in the minority. Same with comic books - people think it is all action heroes and women drawn to look like centerfolds and it's madly misogynistic. It's not. But people generalize based on little information. I often find myself asking them the question - but have you really read any of it? Or just a few books here and there?? Are there horrible episodes in daytime soaps? Yes. But there's good writing in there occasionally too.
I've read the whole range. The Boddice Rippers - which I have a feeling are the ones that pushed your buttons? They have rough sex and seduction - which at times feels like rape to a lot of people. (I highly recommend hunting down and reading Margaret Atwood's Rape Fantasies - if you haven't already. Also Nancy Friday's book of erotica entitled Secret Garden - where she analyzes female fantasies.) Rosemary Rodgers and Kathleen Woodwiss were the most famous of the boddice ripper bunch. In the 70s they were quite popular. Don't see them that much any longer. I sort of like them and don't see them the same way as others, but I can see why they push people's buttons. Just as I could see why so many people hated Buffy S6 and found it offensive.
There's also the sweet romances. The strong female tough gal ones. The romance genre is as broad and varied as science fiction and fantasy. Anne McCaffrey's Dragon-Rider series has often been categorized as romance and there are points in it that...people view as massively misogynistic and "demi-rape". With a hefty male gaze.
Both are imho wishful fantasies and far away from the tedious process that you gain power with in reality.
True, but these are fantasy stories - fictional, not real - they aren't trying to be real. It's not non-fiction. It's escapist fiction. Fantasy fiction. There's nothing wrong with wishful fantasy. Real life is bleak at times...tedious, fantasy is an escape from it and we're smart enough to know the difference. At least most of us are. ;-)
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But..tv shows like Breaking Bad? Where power is achieved through increased violence...and in the real world? Walt would in prison or dead. I shrug off.
I do believe you that there are novels where the "But secretly she wants it" trope is done in way that does not feel like the oldest rape defence in the book, but my experience with romances is really very limited because what I read was so massively misogynist.
That's why I think you need to read a wide wide range in a genre before critiquing or commenting on it. For example - I know women who perceive the Western genre as misogynistic. It's not. Or the noir genre as misogynistic - yes and no, but no not really. Some sure. But actually that's in the minority. Same with comic books - people think it is all action heroes and women drawn to look like centerfolds and it's madly misogynistic. It's not. But people generalize based on little information. I often find myself asking them the question - but have you really read any of it? Or just a few books here and there?? Are there horrible episodes in daytime soaps? Yes. But there's good writing in there occasionally too.
I've read the whole range. The Boddice Rippers - which I have a feeling are the ones that pushed your buttons? They have rough sex and seduction - which at times feels like rape to a lot of people. (I highly recommend hunting down and reading Margaret Atwood's Rape Fantasies - if you haven't already. Also Nancy Friday's book of erotica entitled Secret Garden - where she analyzes female fantasies.) Rosemary Rodgers and Kathleen Woodwiss were the most famous of the boddice ripper bunch. In the 70s they were quite popular. Don't see them that much any longer. I sort of like them and don't see them the same way as others, but I can see why they push people's buttons. Just as I could see why so many people hated Buffy S6 and found it offensive.
There's also the sweet romances. The strong female tough gal ones. The romance genre is as broad and varied as science fiction and fantasy. Anne McCaffrey's Dragon-Rider series has often been categorized as romance and there are points in it that...people view as massively misogynistic and "demi-rape". With a hefty male gaze.
Both are imho wishful fantasies and far away from the tedious process that you gain power with in reality.
True, but these are fantasy stories - fictional, not real - they aren't trying to be real. It's not non-fiction. It's escapist fiction.
Fantasy fiction. There's nothing wrong with wishful fantasy. Real life is bleak at times...tedious, fantasy is an escape from it and we're smart enough to know the difference. At least most of us are. ;-)