es, the split in how people took the AR still astounds me...particularly the women fans of Spike that blamed Buffy because they felt (IMO) that blaming her made it ok to still like Spike.
The writer's set it up in such a way that this was bound to happen. Because Buffy was using sex with Spike to get high. There was a definite addiction metaphor going on there. And beating him up after-wards, in much the same way Faith as Buffy, beats on Buffy as Faith - she's beating up herself - he's a reflection of the part of herself that she hates. Unfortunately to get there - they did this odd "yes means no bondage/sex bit which leads to accidental rape in soap operas and tv shows" story arc. The problem with that type of story arc...is it can be interpreted as the gal asked for it. He misread her signals. After all, everytime she said no before...also, every time they fought before...granted she was clearly injured this round, in her private bathroom, and had made it clear they were over.. The other problem - was Buffy was as if not more abusive in the relationship as he was...so for a lot of female fans, who had, unfortunately, been in Spike's shoes in a relationship and highly identified with the character...they were pissed with Buffy. People want to make it about gender. But I think it was far more complicated than that. Spike was placed in the feminine role. The person who pitched the AR scene was Marti Noxon who based the scene and the situation on herself - on how she forced herself sexually on an unwilling male partner - after they'd had a similarily abusive relationship. Marti was Spike in her own back-story. So a lot of women identified with Spike not Buffy in the story. Buffy was weirdly in the male role. Which is why that AR scene is incredibly complicated and volatile. You can't read it in black and white tones...even if it is ironically shot in them. You need to apply critical thinking to understand it. Otherwise the whole sequence goes over your head and it did for many fans, the vast majority to this day do not understand what was going on in that scene or in that relationship.
I am not sure exactly what the writers intended, but like you I felt it was not that much more than what he had done in the past and I also felt like (tip toes around this) that it was not necessarily a conscious decision and when he realized what he almost did; felt remorse.
I agree. I don't think he intended to rape her or hurt her. The expression of pure horror on his face states that. And his reaction to it - states it as well. He is horrorified. More so, actually than she is. I think he was desperate when he visited her, she'd been sending off mixed signals, and he was a little insane. Not to mention drunk - he'd been drinking quite a bit. Also, keep in mind, he's a demon. There's no soul. No chip even ...letting him know when he is hurting her.
The intent the writer's had was in part to demonstrate that Spike needed a soul or something to let him know when he was hurting another - a way to feel true empathy for someone. Without he couldn't feel that. But they wanted their cake and eat it too...so they sent mixed signals and mixed metaphors. It's very hard to believe Spike needs a soul to feel empathy when he goes out of his way to save Dawn in Intervention. Or helps the Scoobies all summer fight villains, believing Buffy is dead and never coming back. So why did he stick around and care so deeply for Dawn? The story becomes very muddy at this point and it is no longer clear.
It felt to me like Spike lost control...that he'd been on the verge for quite some time of snapping, and he finally does. He has the equivalent of a nervous breakdown. Kudos to the actor for pulling it off. The performance is so raw and so perfect, it is painful to watch.
That's why I never saw his action in Seeing Red as really rape - there was no clear intent. And like Buffy...I felt more sympathetic towards him. But ...it is a painful scene to watch. Almost unwatchable actually. Every time I see that scene I want to leave the room. And I wonder sometimes if the writers really wanted to hurt the viewers by filming it in that manner. Because it is in my opinion close to unwatchable.
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The writer's set it up in such a way that this was bound to happen. Because Buffy was using sex with Spike to get high. There was a definite addiction metaphor going on there. And beating him up after-wards, in much the same way Faith as Buffy, beats on Buffy as Faith - she's beating up herself - he's a reflection of the part of herself that she hates. Unfortunately to get there - they did this odd "yes means no bondage/sex bit which leads to accidental rape in soap operas and tv shows" story arc. The problem with that type of story arc...is it can be interpreted as the gal asked for it. He misread her signals. After all, everytime she said no before...also, every time they fought before...granted she was clearly injured this round, in her private bathroom, and had made it clear they were over.. The other problem - was Buffy was as if not more abusive in the relationship as he was...so for a lot of female fans, who had, unfortunately, been in Spike's shoes in a relationship and highly identified with the character...they were pissed with Buffy. People want to make it about gender. But I think it was far more complicated than that. Spike was placed in the feminine role. The person who pitched the AR scene was Marti Noxon who based the scene and the situation on herself - on how she forced herself sexually on an unwilling male partner - after they'd had a similarily abusive relationship. Marti was Spike in her own back-story. So a lot of women identified with Spike not Buffy in the story. Buffy was weirdly in the male role. Which is why that AR scene is incredibly complicated and volatile. You can't read it in black and white tones...even if it is ironically shot in them. You need to apply critical thinking to understand it. Otherwise the whole sequence goes over your head and it did for many fans, the vast majority to this day do not understand what was going on in that scene or in that relationship.
I am not sure exactly what the writers intended, but like you I felt it was not that much more than what he had done in the past and I also felt like (tip toes around this) that it was not necessarily a conscious decision and when he realized what he almost did; felt remorse.
I agree. I don't think he intended to rape her or hurt her. The expression of pure horror on his face states that. And his reaction to it - states it as well. He is horrorified. More so, actually than she is. I think he was desperate when he visited her, she'd been sending off mixed signals, and he was a little insane. Not to mention drunk - he'd been drinking quite a bit. Also, keep in mind, he's a demon. There's no soul. No chip even ...letting him know when he is hurting her.
The intent the writer's had was in part to demonstrate that Spike needed a soul or something to let him know when he was hurting another - a way to feel true empathy for someone. Without he couldn't feel that. But they wanted their cake and eat it too...so they sent mixed signals and mixed metaphors. It's very hard to believe Spike needs a soul to feel empathy when he goes out of his way to save Dawn in Intervention. Or helps the Scoobies all summer fight villains, believing Buffy is dead and never coming back. So why did he stick around and care so deeply for Dawn? The story becomes very muddy at this point and it is no longer clear.
It felt to me like Spike lost control...that he'd been on the verge for quite some time of snapping, and he finally does. He has the equivalent of a nervous breakdown. Kudos to the actor for pulling it off. The performance is so raw and so perfect, it is painful to watch.
That's why I never saw his action in Seeing Red as really rape - there was no clear intent. And like Buffy...I felt more sympathetic towards him. But ...it is a painful scene to watch. Almost unwatchable actually. Every time I see that scene I want to leave the room. And I wonder sometimes if the writers really wanted to hurt the viewers by filming it in that manner. Because it is in my opinion close to unwatchable.