BTVS - 20th Anniversary

[shadowkat]

I suppose I should say something about Buffy's 20th Anniversary. I read some stuff yesterday, including an interview with Marsters and Boreanze. Weirdly, I liked the one with Boreanze better.
Boreanze mentioned that he had lunch once with George Lucas who was a serious fan of both series, Angel and Buffy, and had visited the set. Fandoms collide. Marsters has a tendency to put his foot in his mouth, sort of like Spike, and say more than he should. Although he did say one thing that resonated, which is that Buffy in some respects is even more relevant today than when it aired...with it's overall message - "Don't Give Up", no matter how impossible things seem.

Buffy....was in some respects my first and only internet fandom experience. I wonder sometimes if I would have been nearly as obsessed with it, if it weren't for the internet. Maybe. Maybe not. I haven't become obsessed with anything else to that degree. I met a lot of like-minded souls on the internet via Buffy. And because of Buffy, I'm on LJ and DW, although I suppose it's possible I'd have ended up on both another way.

I think the issues explored in that show, resonate over time, and even more so today...I was reviewing an old essay I wrote a while back and considered reposting it, but realized I'd have to heavily edit and revise it. (I can't read things that I wrote several years ago or even a year ago, without wincing a bit -- or rewriting the whole thing.) The essay was about "Dealing with Reality" -- it analyzed the events in Season 6 up to Entropy, before Seeing Red. And discussed how people skew facts or create a fantasy world, to escape reality. If you want to read it, I think you can still find it here. I won't make sense to anyone who has not watched the series. And I can't read it without flinching. So...


At any rate, if it weren't for Buffy, I wouldn't have met many of you. I started watching it earlier than many online folks did -- in 1997. I'd followed Anthony Stewart Head to the series from VR5 which had originally been in the time slot. At first I liked VR5 better. Head seemed to have a minor role in Buffy, with most of the focus on Gellar, who I initially found annoying, having watched her on All My Children. (She was annoying on All My Children, and off-screen, a diva in training.) But the writing and the character won me over...as did the other characters. I think my initial favorite characters on the series were the male characters...Xander, Angel, and Giles. I watched it intermittently that first year...skipping some episodes, enthralled by others. It wasn't really until the second season that I considered it "MUST WATCH" TV. And got a VCR to ensure I didn't miss episodes or could re-watch them. I loved Season 2. Season 3 -- less so, but it was intriguing and I kept going to ACIN News for spoilers. I was a Bangle shipper during that period, and a bit frustrated with the on-again, off-again romance. Loved S2 and S3 at the time.

Season 4 almost lost me. It was an uneven season. And I was, at the time, a Bangle shipper -- well, up until the fourth episode of the season or was it the sixth? The writers successfully killed the Bangle relationship for me, during the cross-over episodes, in which the two characters no longer fit and just made each other miserable. Angel needed to be the hero, and couldn't quite handle the fact that Buffy was the hero, and he was well her sidekick. He wanted it to be the other way around. Actually, it turned out that Riley had the same problem. Cordelia worked perfectly with Angel, because she could be his sidekick. (In retrospect, that's actually an interesting commentary by the writers on our sexist society and how our society and media view women. The writers really weren't that interested in "the romance" and more interested in larger social issues related to the romance. Which often put them at odds with the fandom, who obviously was more invested in the romance or ships than larger social issues. I think that was what Whedon meant when he said he didn't want to give fans what they wanted, but what they needed. In reality, what he was saying was -- I'm interested in exploring broader social issues and commenting on our culture. I'm not interested in writing a story about Romeo and Juliet riding off in the sunset. To be fair, neither was Shakespeare, hence the reason Romeo and Juliet die. Which is why both writer's work endures. They had something to say. It wasn't just a puff pastry.)

Season 5 threw me, and I suddenly got invested in the character of Spike, who'd I always enjoyed, but in S5 suddenly became interesting and developed as opposed to comic relief. Surprised me a little, actually. As did, what they decided to do with Dawn and Joyce.

Season 6 -- turned me into an obsessed fan. Mainly because they started doing things in the series that I hadn't seen anyone attempt before. It felt a bit like watching a high-wire act. With no net.
Also, it appeared that they were planning on sending the characters careening off a cliff -- or it was "Six Characters on the Verge of a Nervous Breakdown". I think two of the actors actually came close to having one. It was a risky season, and alienated many fans who wanted puff pasty, happy ever-afters, and chocolate...not a five course meal, with an in-depth examination of pop culture, and various social issues. Scholars, academics, and analytical sorts were in love with S6, those who watched it casually or more on an emotional level -- were pissed off. Guess which side I fell into?
(Helpful hint -- I wrote over 500 pages of meta or essays during that season, examining every character and facet of the series. And read over 1000 pages worth of essays from various people. Not to mention lots and lots of fanfic. It actually introduced me to fanfic.) Season 6 also inspired me to rewatch all the previous seasons of both Buffy and Angel. Including the ones that I skipped over the first go-around. And it introduced me to most of the people I met online.

There were obviously other things happening at the time. S6 did not appear in a vacuum. We had 9/11, the War in Iraq and Afghanistan starting, I was in the middle of a major social and career upheaval,
and on the verge of a nervous breakdown myself. Actually, I think I did have a nervous breakdown in 2001-2002. So S6 resonated for me. It was the only television series, movie, book, etc that did, at that time. Looking back -- I think in some ways S6 and my interactions with people on ATPO and Buffy Cross and Stake regarding the show...may have saved my sanity, if not my life. I'd had the rug pulled out from under me, and was able to retreat to the internet and Buffy as a lifeline. F/X helped by rerunning Buffy episodes. It didn't really have any other programming at that time. So it rerun Buffy each night, with marathons over the holidays. Gave me something to focus on that was not insane.
I remember a co-worker/friend at the time stating -- so your ATPO or Buffy board is a form of "group therapy"? It actually was. We discussed everything through the guise of Buffy.

S7 was disappointing. I wonder if it would have been less so, if I weren't so obsessed at the time and watching it with the internet? If I'd watched it like I do most television series, would I have liked it more? There were isolated episodes and moments in it that I thought were amazing. Beneath You - the tail end of it, Conversations with Dead People (which won the Hugo - I think it did), Selfless, Lies My Parents Told Me...all had lasting value, and explored various social issues in a visceral manner.

To say that I loved the series is perhaps an understatement. I was obsessed with it. I wanted to devour it whole and then again, and again. It struck a deep chord in me. And then, I found others who felt much the same way...which was magical.

To date, people are still teaching courses, presenting papers, and writing essays on Buffy. Many professional writers were fans. Shonda Rhimes (Grey's Anatomy, Scandal, How to Get Away with Murder, and The Catch) has stated that it inspired her writing and helped her launch her career as a television writer. RT Davies said that it inspired his version of Doctor Who, and Rose Tyler. George Lucas and Holly Hunter were fans.

Why? Because at it's heart the show as about the universal themes of "Not giving up". "Caring about Others." "Doing what we can to help, no matter what it costs us." And "forgiveness." It was anti-vengence, not a revenge fantasy by any stretch, and anti-guns. It showed how violence had consequences. It was about family, and how we can accomplish more together than alone. And it was about sharing power, not hoarding it.

In some respects, it was the antithesis of the reality series that pollute our media with their endless competitions and meaningless contests. It was about surviving high school, and adolescence, but also about surviving life's challenges.

But, alas, as in all things, it did not appeal to everyone. Never had the ratings of a West Wing or a Grey's Anatomy or an NCIS. And..that's okay. Different strokes...for different folks. For those it did appeal to...it was magical.

Comments

[cactuswatcher]

At the time Buffy was running, I was always critical about it from the stand point that while it was perhaps the best thing on, it was just short of going beyond and becoming a true classic that would stand the test of time. No, it was never going to have the ratings of ER or Friends in those days. But it could have been something TV in general could have built on, made the whole media more thoughtful, and less stuck in a rut of whatever looks the glitziest must be the best. I have more negative feelings about Buffy now than I ever had while it was on the air, but perhaps that will pass.

I look back on Buffy and pretty much sneer at Joss' statement about he didn't want to give fans what they wanted, but what they needed. I'm sure the whole idea of Buffy and Spike in season six was to give the Spuffy fans what they wanted and then show it would never work out. That seemed to be perfectly fine with the Spuffy fans. Season Seven was largely fan service for the girl power crowd. Mind you there is nothing wrong with girl power, but making the whole season about it turned out to be something of a disappointment as you put it. Just not enough depth there compared to what had gone before.

I think the failing of Buffy was that TV writers and producers, now as then just have no concept of presenting a stable relationship and making it work. Bangel had to end because they wanted Angel on his own show. Riley seemed fine as handsome grad student till he turned into mindless soldier boy suddenly, and you knew that kind of attitude wasn't going to fly forever with Buffy. The biggest problem with that episode where Riley comes back with his wife wasn't Sam. It was trying to make us suddenly believe Buffy had ever cared about Riley enough to really miss him a year later. Her passion with Riley was just as shallow as her passion with Spike, but Joss didn't feel the necessity to rub it in with Riley.

Even her relationship with Dawn is hit and miss. Buffy saves Dawn at the end of season five. Why? One reason. They weren't sure they'd get a sixth season when it was filmed, and why not kill her off, going out a hero? Did it make logical sense that it would work to stop Glory's plan? Not in a zillion years. Did it turn out to do fan service? You bethca. They got to keep a popular character, instead of having a wrenching guilt trip for Buffy to work through. Buffy's sudden personal interest in Dawn in the final episode of season six, seems pasted on. And 'does anyone even notice' Dawn in season seven? Like Xander she pretty much disappears into the woodwork.

I really liked the first three seasons the best. The last two episodes in season four were great, but the rest of that season wasn't quite there. Though the last three seasons had some of the best episodes ever, in general, season five and seven were disappointing, and season six while constantly intriguing had a habit of pissing off one group of fans after another.

I sound way too harsh in this reply. I never hated BTVS the way I hate some seasons of the Angel show. Would I recommend to someone who'd never seen Buffy to give it a try? Sure. Have my Buffy DVDs been out of the closet in years? Well, no.

[shadowkat]

I'm a little less critical. See my response to "your librarian" below for why.

The gist? For a bunch of writers who did not plan, outline, have a character bible, and just wrote by the seat of their pants...Buffy was incredibly tightly written. Heck, according to Marsters, Whedon had no idea what to do with Spike -- yet, Spike in many ways had the tightest character arc on the series and among the best. So, clearly, Marsters was wrong about that and the writer's were playing him, or they were lucky.

I remember re-watching it several years back and being struck by haw tight it was...considering the writer's didn't plan any of it out. All Whedon knew was how he was going to end S5, how Tara would die, and the first and last episode of S7, but outside of that...it was on the fly. At least that's what he said in interviews.

I'm less critical now...seen too many television serials, I guess. And they made me appreciate it more. Also, what they were doing with the budget they had...was painfully difficult. It was shot on a low budget. And fast. Also, they had problems keeping non-contract players ...Juliet Landau was unavailable for S4, Seth Green was unavailable, Lindsey Crouse...and in S7, they had troubles getting various people or affording them.

Add to that, the threat of cancellation was always present. For both series. So there was some network ratings service going on.

They didn't know if the show would continue after S7 until Gellar announced she was quitting halfway through. Whedon quitting didn't matter - show-runners change all the time. But the star of the series quitting is a big deal -- a little hard to continue Buffy the Vampire Slayer without Buffy. So they tried for spin-offs, but Dusku didn't want to do it. And that was the only viable one - Faith/Spike/Wood.

I mean, I felt I had to give a little leeway to the medium and what they were working with. They didn't have the budget of a Game of Thrones or a Lost, nor the power to script in advance. They were on UPN and WB.

[yourlibrarian]

I wonder sometimes if I would have been nearly as obsessed with it, if it weren't for the internet. Maybe. Maybe not. I haven't become obsessed with anything else to that degree. I met a lot of like-minded souls on the internet via Buffy. And because of Buffy, I'm on LJ and DW, although I suppose it's possible I'd have ended up on both another way.

I know I would have been because I didn't get into the internet side of things until the show was almost over. And it was a fandom that both Mike and I shared, which was also significant. We also watched Angel and the other Whedon projects, and when Joss directed Avengers is when we both started watching that franchise. While nothing grabbed us the same way as Buffy, it's been something enduring.

I think it's unlikely I would have ended up here without Buffy though, or perhaps as involved in fandom as I still am. I was always fannish and always connected with other fans in different fandoms pre-Web and went looking for fandoms once I did get online, so maybe it wouldn't have mattered. But I feel that the site itself did make a difference. There was both a lot of thoughtful commentary but also a level of difficulty in locating content and participating that I think made for higher levels of engagement. I think that sites like Tumblr or social media make it easy to view and maybe save items but it's either more difficult or not even expected that people will engage. And that means you have to have truly massive numbers to make the fandom actually work.

The writers really weren't that interested in "the romance" and more interested in larger social issues related to the romance.

Well, maybe. I mean, Joss' original concept didn't include Angel (nor did he intend to keep Spike around). I think that spinning Angel off solved two problems: the first being having a character the fandom was invested enough in to keep watching, and second once Angel got a spinoff there would be reasons to keep the two apart. The very fact that they turned Cordelia into a love interest seemed unfortunate to me, in the same way that creating a triangle with Fred, Gunn, and Wes did. I could have seen Wes and Fred be a pair much like Fitzsimmons on Agents of SHIELD (in fact, I'd argue that they're simply another iteration of Wes and Fred but more functional).

S6 has always been an interesting flashpoint to me. Since I started watching in S4 and only caught up on earlier seasons by S7, S6 never seemed like that much of a departure to me. I was also unaware of how it divided fandom until later. But I found S/B pretty riveting, and also understood the panic about how Spike was 'taking over the show' because by S7 I'd be willing to bet 1/3 of the audience was watching mostly for that ship. I enjoyed the whole show and all the characters and think it holds up well. But back then I could easily have watched nothing but the Buffy/Spike hour and been satisfied (or even the Spike & anyone else hour).

Having introduced a longtime friend to the show a few years ago and followed her reactions to the series, I found her pattern in some ways a mirror of mine, although she watched the whole thing in order and in the course of 6 months. I notice Joss recently talked about how the show wasn't designed to be binge watched and that's a very interesting topic. I suspect the fandom would have played out quite differently if everyone could consume a season in a few weeks with long periods between seasons instead of just a few months. So I think she didn't dislike S7 as much as I did (though I completely agree that it also had several strong episodes in it just like any other season).

Rather, to me it was S7 and not S6 that was the abrupt turn in the show and, particularly once it was announced it was the final season, I think it failed to offer the sort of closure most fans, whether more recent or longtime, wanted to see. Instead a lot of focus was on what might come after Buffy ended -- potential spinoff ideas, trying to figure out what could be salvaged from a Buffy without Buffy. The end point was in view but the writing team didn't seem to know how to properly get from point a A to Z with the characters they had.

[shadowkat]

Whedon isn't an planner like some television writers are, he tends to write intuitively or by the seat of his pants. For example? He didn't realize Spike was in love with Buffy until the actor pointed it out to him. The actor, being like most actors, was hunting his character's motivation for sticking around and not finding a way to kill Buffy. Because it made no sense to him that Spike would hang around Sunnydale and the Slayer, without finding a way to kill her, or a way to get the chip out of his head. Whedon was juggling too many things and not thinking that deeply about it. Twenty-two episodes is a lot of writing to manage. And most scripts are due fast.

David Greenwalt on the other hand is more of a plotter and planner. Greenwalt came up with the Angel, Spike, Darla and Drusilla characters. Tim Minear expanded on them. Marti Noxon also expanded on them.

But they didn't plan it ahead of time, there was no character bible, or world bible, and each thematic arc was more or less sketched out on the fly. Whedon knew how he wanted to end the fifth season, and where he was going, but not necessarily how he was getting there. Just as he knew how he wanted to do the Sixth and Seventh Seasons, but not how to get there - he had the first and last episodes, and Tara's death planned out in his head.

That said? The show is remarkably tight considering. When I rewatched, I was struck by how neatly each episode built on the last one, and how organic the character arcs were. That's really hard to do on the fly, particularly if you don't watch the previous episodes. It's not like a movie or a book, or fanfic, you can't go back and fix the previous episodes.
Perfect, no. But definitely better than most.

For a character that they admitted to knowing zip what to do with, Spike's arc was amazingly tight. In some respects it was tighter and better written than characters they appeared to have plotted and did know what to do with. Spike's arc worked better than say Willow's in some respects or Xander's. Actually, I think part of the problem with Xander was the actor had a drinking problem...so they couldn't use him as much as they'd intended.

S4 and S7 had the same problems -- lack of actor availability. Seth Green and Lindsey Crouse suddenly became unavailable in S4, destroying their arc. They had to rewrite it. And in S7 - Amber Benson, the actress who played Jenny Calendar, and a few others were either unavailable or expensive, making it difficult to do certain things. The other problem with S7 is they didn't know if they were continuing the series or spinning it off. The writer's were sort of up in the air. It wasn't like Lost or BSG -- where the writer pre-planned the ending. So they deliberately kept it open-ended or with the potential of a spin-off. Whedon was done, but he didn't own the rights to the story, and didn't have the power to end it. And Gellar waited until halfway through the season to announce that she was done with it and not renewing her contract.
That more or less ended things from a network standpoint, although they asked for spin-off ideas. And did buy into a Faith/Spike/Wood series, except Dusku didn't want to do it, so that also fell through.

Considering all of that was going on at the time, along with contract negotiations going on with Angel, which was on the verge of cancellation again...I'm amazed they did as good a job as they did with it. Also, keep in mind, Buffy was always on the verge of cancellation. I remember thinking it was going to be cancelled every year it was on. It didn't get high ratings. The writers and actors thought the same thing. So they did whatever they could to appease the network and stop that -- which to a degree meant romantic intrigue and playing up the ships and cliff-hangers. They noticed, for example, that when Buffy and Angel were at odds, ratings went up, when they were lovey-dovey, ratings went down. Spuffy? Ratings went up. So, yes, to a degree there was a little fan-service. But far less than expected, considering how both ships played out...I mean considering their huge Willow/Tara fanbase, it was a risky move to kill off Tara. Or have Spike force himself on Buffy.