You should read Beast's review posted on Angel After Spike. LOL. Far more cantankerous.
Claudia overreacted to your post, I think. She tends to do that a lot. I don't read her or the Diana/lunasea person b/c they both have a tendency to bash posters who disagree with them. When I read through your entire review - I saw what you were going for - which is how the whole thing was affecting Angel, the writers are in a way using Spike to point out some of Angel's serious flaws. And boy does he have them, some of which make Angel to be one of the most convulted and interesting characters on television but not a hero, actually Angel is the anti-hero. (Spike is Angel's little brother and like lots of little brothers - makes a great foil).
Angel thinks of himself as a hero/champion, but when you sit down and think about it? Is he? Really? When did he save the world selfishlessly? The only time I can think of is in Peace-Out and nothing about that was self-less, as the insect creature priest tells him - he's not doing it for his friends, he's doing it to redeem Connor. Nor, if you think about it was it really saving the world. Was the world better or worse off after he revealed JAsmine's true face? Connor has Angel's number in that episode. Prior to that - when has Angel sacrificed himself or saved the world? Prophecy Girl? No that was Xander and Buffy. Becoming? Xander, Buffy, and Spike - Angel was the villian. Surprise/Innocence? Xander, Buffy, and the gang, Angel was the villian. The other times? a participant, but he certainly didn't turn the tide. Graduation Day? He almost cost Buffy her life. In Angel the Series? Well he's saved some people here and there but in Hero when a race was doomed? That was Doyle, not Angel. Pylea? Cordelia, Wes, Groo, not Angel.
My difficulty is I don't see Angel as very heroic or very good or very righteous. Self-righteous? yes. Righteous? no. He reminds me a lot of Batman - in that his heroism is more viglantism and in some ways more about him and his own background than the people he saves. It's what makes him fascinating to me. But approval and being a "champion" is important to Angel, he needs that title. More so than Buffy ever needed the Slayer title. It's the key difference between them, Buffy is the reluctant hero, just in a way as Spike is a reluctant hero. Angel desperately wants the hero title. He wants to be the prophesied hero of legend. He fears losing that title. He fears what he was and could become again. Angel lies to protect his own image, tells stories if you like, yet his lies separate him from everyone. He tells tales to himself about what a great hero and champion he is - as we saw in Awakenings. While Angelus giggles at the lie. Angel is his own worst enemy. He saves others to make himself feel like a superhero - as we see in the introduction of Conviction. So while Angel's anger at Spike may be righteous in a good way (ie. justified) it is also unjustified at the same time. Just as Spike's anger at Angel is both justified and unjustified. I think Spike in some ways points out the things Angel doesn't want to see about himself, just as Angel points out the things Spike doesn't want to see about himself. I don't know if you have a brother? But it is something brother's have annoying habit of doing - my own does it to me all the time and vice versa - it's almost as if we see each others foibles more clearly because they are to an extent a counter image of our own.
Not sure that made sense. Didn't mean to make you feel bad. I'm just over-identifying with Spike at the moment, probably because I feel more like a useless incorporeal ghost in my life right now than a powerful CEO with a flock of fancy cars ;-).
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branchandroot
No need to apologize, it was a good review
Date: 2003-10-15 11:41 am (UTC)Claudia overreacted to your post, I think. She tends to do that a lot. I don't read her or the Diana/lunasea person b/c they both have a tendency to bash posters who disagree with them. When I read through your entire review - I saw what you were going for - which is how the whole thing was affecting Angel, the writers are in a way using Spike to point out some of Angel's serious flaws.
And boy does he have them, some of which make Angel to be one of the most convulted and interesting characters on television but not a hero, actually Angel is the anti-hero. (Spike is Angel's little brother and like lots of little brothers - makes a great foil).
Angel thinks of himself as a hero/champion, but when you sit down and think about it? Is he? Really? When did he save the world selfishlessly? The only time I can think of is in Peace-Out and nothing about that was self-less, as the insect creature priest tells him - he's not doing it for his friends, he's doing it to redeem Connor. Nor, if you think about it was it really saving the world. Was the world better or worse off after he revealed JAsmine's true face? Connor has Angel's number in that episode. Prior to that - when has Angel sacrificed himself or saved the world? Prophecy Girl? No that was Xander and Buffy. Becoming? Xander, Buffy, and Spike - Angel was the villian. Surprise/Innocence? Xander, Buffy, and the gang, Angel was the villian. The other times? a participant, but he certainly didn't turn the tide. Graduation Day? He almost cost Buffy her life. In Angel the Series? Well he's saved some people here and there but in Hero when a race was doomed? That was Doyle, not Angel.
Pylea? Cordelia, Wes, Groo, not Angel.
My difficulty is I don't see Angel as very heroic or very good or very righteous. Self-righteous? yes. Righteous? no. He reminds me a lot of Batman - in that his heroism is more viglantism and in some ways more about him and his own background than the people he saves. It's what makes him fascinating to me. But approval and being a "champion" is important to Angel, he needs that title. More so than Buffy ever needed the Slayer title. It's the key difference between them, Buffy is the reluctant hero, just in a way as Spike is a reluctant hero. Angel desperately wants the hero title. He wants to be the prophesied hero of legend. He fears losing that title. He fears what he was and could become again. Angel lies to protect his own image, tells stories if you like, yet his lies separate him from everyone. He tells tales to himself about what a great hero and champion he is - as we saw in Awakenings. While Angelus giggles at the lie. Angel is his own worst enemy. He saves others to make himself feel like a superhero - as we see in the introduction of Conviction. So while Angel's anger at Spike may be righteous in a good way (ie. justified) it is also unjustified at the same time. Just as Spike's anger at Angel is both justified and unjustified. I think Spike in some ways points out the things Angel doesn't want to see about himself, just as Angel points out the things Spike doesn't want to see about himself. I don't know if you have a brother? But it is something brother's have annoying habit of doing - my own does it to me all the time and vice versa - it's almost as if we see each others foibles more clearly because they are to an extent a counter image of our own.
Not sure that made sense. Didn't mean to make you feel bad. I'm just over-identifying with Spike at the moment, probably because I feel more like a useless incorporeal ghost in my life right now than a powerful CEO with a flock of fancy cars ;-).