I like the Smart Bitches site a good deal even though I almost never read romances (even the m/m stories I've bought have often been things like detective or mystery stories). I think the way it's been evolving has been interesting to watch. I think that when a site develops a good comments section it's often a cue that it's found the right audience.
I hadn't heard this podcast but I agree it's interesting for the reasons you mentioned. I read very little romance because I find it disappointing. I've found one author I particularly like, and I try to read within genres I'm already interested in (which has also proven disappointing).
Whedon's work tends to have a meta-narrative element, which many people don't realize, and often a satirical element, that many take literally.
That's a good point. It's super obvious in something like Cabin, but his habit of trying to disrupt tropes and expectations is just the same thing on a smaller scale. I didn't care for his script as a whole for reasons I went into but I did really like how he viewed Diana's likely impact and interaction with the world given the sort of life she's led and culture she is familiar with. It was just entirely different, and presented her as the alien she is. And regarding the feminist issue, my favorite bit of the script addressed it in a way you don't see at all in the current film:
"A cute little girl of 10 stands nearby at the bottom of a gnarled tree. She calls out "Lady?" (points up) "My cat is stuck in that tree."
Diana looks up, sees the cat stuck on a branch, looks back at the girl with dismissive incomprehension.
"Climb it."
I think that speaks very well to your point about what he was trying to do (and why his script would likely never get made, then or now). He notes the girl is 10, not a very small child, and the tree is gnarled, not some tall straight thing that would be unusually difficult to climb. Diana can't understand why this girl wouldn't solve her own problem, because she's never lived in a society where women are raised to be dependent on others. It reminds me of a comment I just posted about regarding the effect of the movie on kids. From the photo, I'm guessing the daughter is about 6:
"Just last night she said out of the blue, ‘I thought girls were always weak, but actually we’re strong plus lots of other things, even trouble-makers in a good way.'”"
Who would have taught her girls were weak? No one on Themyscira, that's for sure. A warrior people who have nothing to do with the modern world and have banned men for very good reasons don't seem likely to be the good fairies that Diana largely is in the film. I did like the movie and am super happy it's done well. But it was a very safe film in any number of ways, whereas Joss was not going for either safe or likable which is a very different approach (not to mention setting and plot).
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branchandroot
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Date: 2017-06-17 09:22 pm (UTC)I hadn't heard this podcast but I agree it's interesting for the reasons you mentioned. I read very little romance because I find it disappointing. I've found one author I particularly like, and I try to read within genres I'm already interested in (which has also proven disappointing).
Whedon's work tends to have a meta-narrative element, which many people don't realize, and often a satirical element, that many take literally.
That's a good point. It's super obvious in something like Cabin, but his habit of trying to disrupt tropes and expectations is just the same thing on a smaller scale. I didn't care for his script as a whole for reasons I went into but I did really like how he viewed Diana's likely impact and interaction with the world given the sort of life she's led and culture she is familiar with. It was just entirely different, and presented her as the alien she is. And regarding the feminist issue, my favorite bit of the script addressed it in a way you don't see at all in the current film:
"A cute little girl of 10 stands nearby at the bottom of a gnarled tree. She calls out "Lady?" (points up) "My cat is stuck in that tree."
Diana looks up, sees the cat stuck on a branch, looks back at the girl with dismissive incomprehension.
"Climb it."
I think that speaks very well to your point about what he was trying to do (and why his script would likely never get made, then or now). He notes the girl is 10, not a very small child, and the tree is gnarled, not some tall straight thing that would be unusually difficult to climb. Diana can't understand why this girl wouldn't solve her own problem, because she's never lived in a society where women are raised to be dependent on others. It reminds me of a comment I just posted about regarding the effect of the movie on kids. From the photo, I'm guessing the daughter is about 6:
"Just last night she said out of the blue, ‘I thought girls were always weak, but actually we’re strong plus lots of other things, even trouble-makers in a good way.'”"
Who would have taught her girls were weak? No one on Themyscira, that's for sure. A warrior people who have nothing to do with the modern world and have banned men for very good reasons don't seem likely to be the good fairies that Diana largely is in the film. I did like the movie and am super happy it's done well. But it was a very safe film in any number of ways, whereas Joss was not going for either safe or likable which is a very different approach (not to mention setting and plot).
Although I raised some similar points myself, anyone who thinks this wasn't as much Steve Trevor's film as Diana's needs to reconsider a number of elements, including some mentioned here: http://thelearnedfangirl.com/2017/06/are-all-the-men-really-necessary-a-critical-look-at-wonder-woman/