(no subject)

[shadowkat]

1. Olay is doing an ad with SMG that is well.. a horror movie for the Superbowl. Yeah, I know, right?

2. The Oscar nominations are definitely interesting, I'll give them that. I'm not sure I'd have nominated or listed any of those films ...but I'm also sort of leery of awards shows anyhow (Granted I've only seen four or five of the films nominated in all the categories...and only two in the best picture category -- Black KKKlansman and Black Panther, so what do I know?)

3. Controversial Stances in FANDOM


* I liked the Doctor Who 11 arc with Amy, Rory, Doctor Song and Matt Smith best, the other arcs sort of bored me and I kept jumping in and out...not seeing all the episodes. That was the only one I saw all the episodes and bought DVDs of. [To date, have only found one person who agrees with this.]

* I like the entire Cyclops arc in the X-men and I do mean the ENTIRE arc. I like the darkness. I find it fascinating. It's one of the few times I've seen anyone truly explore the difficult choices leaders of marginalized people make, and how massive loss, trauma, and PTSD can truly affect you.
Also it explores how militant choices to defend yourself can mean that you turn into the very monster that you are fighting -- very HEART of DARKNESS. And a fascinating take on the hero's journey -- where he literally kills his father/mentor (not to worry it's not for long, no one dies permanently in comics). (Although still prefer Cyke with Jean, but was happy with the Emma/Cyke pairing as well.)

* I like the entire Spike arc -- yes all of it in the Television series. The character fascinated me. I do wish the writers had a made a few different choices, but I wasn't surprised by the ones they made and liked where they went with them. And my two favorite ships in the entire Buffyverse are Spike/Buffy and Spike/Angel, although I do have a fondness for Giles/Jenny.

* I loved Farscape S4 and The Peacekeeper Wars

* I adore Star Trek Voyager and actually preferred it to Deep Space Nine.

* I also loved Bablyon 5 and watched it instead of DS9 because I thought it was better written and more interesting.

* And...I loved both the first Battle Star Galatica Series and the Second, Reboot, for different reasons. In both, my favorite character was Apollo. I loved Starbuck in the reboot.

Comments

[cactuswatcher]

You won't get any argument from me about Babylon 5 over DS9. I was just thinking of Michael O'Hare this morning. Poor guy. He had a good voice, but his acting that year was just awful. I'm sure his real life paranoia didn't help on set. But I still enjoyed watching the first season. I was always pulling for O'Hare to do better, but Bruce Boxleitner made it so I didn't feel like I might soon be wincing when the commander came on screen.

There were more individual characters on DS9 that I liked than on Voyager: Kira, Terry Ferrell's version of Dax and Garak. And I disliked fewer on DS9: Dr Bashir (Jake Cisco as well, but he was a fairly minor character)on DS9 compared to Janeway, Kes and Neelix on Voyager. But I can't say I really preferred DS9 over Voyager. I'm sure I watched more DS9 episodes than Voyager eps especially after they put Worf in the mix, but by that time I wasn't watching either consistently.

After an episode or two I couldn't stand the original Battle Star. I did like Apollo, but not nearly enough to keep watching. I've only seen the first season and a half of the reboot. Really enjoyed the first season, but thought the second was going downhill fast. I don't even remember Apollo in the reboot, and I think most everyone liked reboot Starbuck.

NuTrek

[cjlasky7]

For some reason, it always took two or three seasons for the Berman-led series to warm up. TNG and DS9 hit their strides mid-way through S3. Enterprise finally clicked in S4.

Voyager stayed in Kazon space too long. The Kazon could have been a ruthless, scavanger species, but they came off like a petty annoyance. (For early enemies, the Vidiians were much more frightening.) Once we got a hint that the Borg were in this sector, the Kazon were pretty much forgotten.

I thought Voyager could have been a lot better, a lot more desperate in its fight for survival. (Basically, "Year of Hell" The Series.) They had some great characters (Janeway, 7, B'Elanna, the Doctor) and some really boring characters (Chakotay, Chakotay...and Chakotay). They thought Neelix was funny, when he was essentially a Holocaust survivor. They botched Kes completely. (Don't talk to me about the C/7 'ship....) I could go on and on why it wasn't all it could be, but I actually liked what it was.

But better than DS9? No. After the Bell Riots two-parter ("Past Tense"), DS9 was great almost right up to the end. (Yeah, I know: Ezri. Vic. Minor glitches, folks.) Maybe Voyager is easier to watch on an individual episode basis, but with DS9, you can dive into the great character interaction, the social and political complexities of life on the wormhole. I did a series rewatch a few years ago, and it's just gotten better over time.

Re: NuTrek

[shadowkat]

Yep, my stance continues to be unpopular on Trek.

DS9 has the following distinctions:

1. When it aired, I was living in Lawrence and in Johnson County, Kansas. And the local affiliates didn't like it for some reason, because they either didn't air the episodes, or they aired them at weird times. It jumped around a lot.

2. At one point it aired directly opposite Bab 5, and there were no DVR's or dual taping options back then. Also Bab 5 didn't jump about, had a clear plot arc, innovative characters and verse, the writer obviously knew what he was doing . (Berman was throwing stuff at a wall to see what stuck, when Ron Moore took over for a bit, it may have gotten more interesting -- but I gave up at the end of S3 or thereabouts. Also Moore loves torture, sexual violence and religious cult plots, which is my problem with Moore).. Bab 5 in stark contrast was just deeper, and did not have an annoying and frankly offensive religious cult subplot that made me want to run screaming in the opposite direction. Plus I liked Bab 5's characters a whole lot better - it was more political than religious.

3. I did not like anyone on DS9 but Kira, Jake, and Dr. Bashir. Everyone else irritated me. (I loved all the characters on Bab 5.)

4. Weirdly, I met some of the writers of DS9 in person at a party that Wales took me too in 1995. Before I moved to NYC. The writer I met wrote the episode in which Jake becomes a Sci-Fi writer, it's one of the few episodes of DS9 that I enjoyed. (DS9 is that rare series in which I liked the rare stand-a-lone episodes and hated the arcs, the other series I felt that way about was the X-files.) We had a long discussion about DS9 and the process -- it did not enamor me of the series. I don't remember what was said..just that the writer wasn't crazy about the show-runners. (Other's have said the same.)

Voyager in stark contrast, was easier to follow. Outside of Kes, I loved all the characters. The actress who played Janeway, Kate Mulgrew -- was always a personal favorite of mine, going back to my childhood. Even Kes I liked. The stories didn't irritate me. I enjoyed the metaphors. And found the set-up of the rebels and Star-Fleet being forced to join forces and cohabitate interesting. Also I loved the pairing of Tom and B'Elanna (?). While Worf annoyed me and I could barely stand the character, I loved B'Elanna. Add to that -- it wasn't opposite another similar, far better series (BAB 5) nor did it have an offensive arc and offensive villains. Easier to watch, stomach, etc. I don't remember the plot-lines, and I can't say I ever re-watched or was a fan -- but I did enjoy it and loved many of the characters. DS9? The appeal is lost on me.

[shadowkat]

I'm sort of the opposite from you on DS9 and Voyager, but I am with most people. DS9's religious and holocaust metaphors annoyed me. And I really didn't like how they handled their socio-political themes, which were heavy handed. Usually it doesn't bug me but in DS9 it bugged me early on. Also, I did not like anyone in it except Kira, Dr. Bashir, and Jake. And it's that rare series in which I actually liked the stand-a-lone episodes better than the arcs. It's telling that the only episode I vaguely remember from it is when Jake became a sci-fi writer...(I met the writer of that episode at a party once).

Voyager? I liked everyone more or less. I don't remember the plots except vaguely, but I do remember enjoying it more and sticking with it. DS9 of course required more work -- they kept changing its time slot, also in the Kansas City area, where I lived at the time, it aired opposite Bab 5. Michael O'Hare was admittedly wooden, but he was barely in it and disappeared fast.

[shadowkat]

Battle Star Galatica - v.1 -- aired in 1979 or 1980, and I was 11 turning 12 at the time. It appealed to me for the following reasons - unlike all the sci-fi shows that proceeded it, with the exception of Star Wars, if featured strong female characters. Many of which could fly a fighter. Star Trek had Uruhu...who seriously had no role. BSG v. 1 was directed at pre-teens. Now? I'd hate it. But then I adored it. It really was more of a kid's show -- going after the Star Wars audience.

I adored it then. I also loved the reboot. But yep, most fans, 85% actually, agreed with you. The controversial stance was that I loved both, and loved Apollo. Only 12% of the fandom agreed with me. ;-)

[cactuswatcher]

but he was barely in it and disappeared fast.

I wouldn't say either of those things, but it's just as well you remember that way. ;o)

We'll Always Have Paris

[cjlasky7]

Voyager frustrated me no end. For every quality episode that would make me perk up and take notice, there would be two or three mediocre-to-bad eps that would settle me right back down. It was never consistent, even in the better seasons, and I think part of it was Paramount's insistence on non-serialization. I know that pissed off a number of Voyager's writers.

But given alllll that [large, arcing arm gesture], I will say that your BLT love is definitely shared here. B'Elanna's character arc is solid, from exploring the Klingon and human aspects of her character in "Faces" (S1) through the birth of her daughter in S7. And B'Elanna and Tom are simply the best couple in Trek history. The way he dealt with her issues coupled with his own maturation over the course of the series (in eps like "30 Days") was on point all the way through.

(Admittedly, there's not a lot of competition in the couples department.)

Re: We'll Always Have Paris

[shadowkat]

Hee. All I remember from Voyager is Tom Paris/B'Elanna relationship -- which I loved. And Janeway/Q bizarre plot lines. Also Seven of Nine, who was interesting...but outside of that. I don't remember the plot-lines at all. I had low expectations, admittedly. As long as I like the characters, I'm usually fine.

So we can agree on the BLT love. One of the better romantic couplings in television.

[shadowkat]

I don't remember O'Hare at all. Not a huge Boxleitner fan either. But it didn't matter, I loved all the other characters.

Janeway/Q

[cjlasky7]

This has always been one of the most unusual interpersonal relationships in Trek history, much different from Picard's relationship with Q. It almost seems as if Q is "interested" in Janeway (if you know what I mean) what with the come on lines in "Death Wish" and asking her to be his baby mama in "Q and the Grey."

Mulgrew and deLancie are long-time friends, and I wonder if the writers and the actors were playing off that to goof with us.

(Or maybe there's a teeny bit of Kate/John UST buried in there?)

BTW, "Death Wish" is probably my favorite episode of Voyager, with its discussions about immortality, the right to die, and the ethics of suicide. (Except it really isn't an episode of Voyager; it's an episode of Star Trek: Q Continuum, guest starring the Voyager crew and Will Riker. My favorite Voyager-y Voyager episode is probably Deadlock--double the Janeway, double the coffee....)

[promethia_tenk]

Voyager >>>> DS9 yesssssss.

I have to go back and give DS9 a proper watch all the way through at some point, but I basically checked out right about when the war was starting. I'll concede that Voyager was perhaps less ambitious, but I loved almost all of the character and that's what I care about, dammit.

Re: Janeway/Q

[promethia_tenk]

I have this ridiculous love for Q and the Grey. So beyond silly. So much bizarrely great Janeway/Q stuff.

[shadowkat]

THIS.

Exactly.

I probably should give DS9 a second chance at some point, I keep meaning too...but just never been in the mood. (Also too much new content to choose from.) I'll check out Discovery first.

I also checked out of DS9 about when the war was starting. And well..

I'll concede that Voyager was perhaps less ambitious, but I loved almost all of the character and that's what I care about, dammit.

Exactly.

Re: Janeway/Q

[shadowkat]

Oh John DeLancie and Kate Mulgrew knew each other from the soap opera world. Both came up through it. And they had great chemistry.

I actually preferred Q on Voyager to STNG. And the final episode of Voyager -- worked better for me than STNG's did.

I preferred the Borg with Voyager than STNG as well.

Re: Janeway/Q

[shadowkat]

Yes, I loved that episode as well. There weren't many episodes I didn't like with Voyager.

Janeway and Q were so much fun.