![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
Revenge of the Sith & the art of the story -what works, what doesn't
First off - lovely evening with cjlasky. We arrive at the movie on time. No problems. No line. Plenty of seats. Don't know what people are talking about?
Participated in a raffle at the movie house - for the starbright foundation. You put in a dollar each, received a nice little star with a number on it. Then before the previews of the movie begin, they held a raffle. The winner receives two movie tickets. Cjl looked hopeful. I tell him, hey, so not going to happen. I've participated in these things before, the odds are like one in a million. I never get my name picked. He didn't believe me, until the ushers took off and went to collect from other movie theaters..."Wait, this is with the whole movie house?" "Probably, look I figure it's a buck for charity, I'd have put it in regardless." He nods.The ushers come back and hold the raffle. I pull my little star out of my coat pocket...they call off four numbers, and what do you know they are the same as the ones on my little star. "Anyone have these numbers they ask?" "Uhm, I do. Or I think I do." They come forward and take my little star. "Yep, you do." People applaud. I turn red in the face. And what do you know, I get two free movie tickets to see any movie at any time at any Regal Theater until 12/31/2005. (We're aiming for Batman Begins, June 19th.)I look heavenwards and mutter, "does this mean my luck is changing? Please god?"
Then the previews starts, we want the Firefly preview but we get some good ones in its stead: "Batman Begins", "Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion The Witch & The Wardrobe" (which literally sent a chill down my spine, interesting since up until seeing the trailer had little interest in the film, now that is what a trailer is supposed to do), "Mr & Mrs. Smith", and a couple of others I can't recall off hand.
Next up the movie that I've been curious about since Return of the Jedi ended and I'd heard rumors about prequels being done.
Revenge of the Sith...
First off, I should state that I'd seen the emmy-winning animated series The Clone Wars - all 23 chapters. Revenge of the Sith starts literally after Chapter 23 of the Clone Wars and if you haven't seen these, you should. They are done by the same animators that did Samuri Jack and chapter 23 does a brilliant bit with cave paintings that literally describes Anakin Skywalker's journey. Whether or not you are a fan of Star Wars, check out these animated bits, each chapter is 15 minutes in length. Highly recommend. (Also highly recommend Animatrix for Matrix and non-Matrix fans, even if you hated the last two movies in the series, see it.) I saw Clone Wars for same reason I saw Animatrix - wanted to see the whole story. Seeing Sith without seeing Clone Wars is sort of like watching ATS without ever watching BTVS. If that makes sense.
Now...my review of Sith, which I will kindly cut tag for everyone, those who haven't seen it and don't want to be spoiled and those who could care less.
The Revenge of The Sith is the counterpart to Return of the Jedi, or it's shadow. One is the hero's journey, one is the tragic hero's fall. Both are well-known storytelling tropes, no George Lucas did not invent them, they've been around a long time. Good stories are about a character's transformation. The story shows us the character's journey, what happens to him, how he deals with it. How his choices along that journey change him, transform him for good or ill. How he deals with those choices. And his interaction with others who are on that journey with him.
For this to work, you have to build up to the choices, show why the character made the choices he or she did, the conflict within the character for them,
and how the character overcame that conflict.
Star Wars - is a three character piece. Han Solo - the reluctant hero, who overcomes his self-involvement to help Luke save the day. One of the best moments in the movie is the one when Han Solo shows up at the last minute and blows Darth off course, allowing Luke to destroy the Death Star. We don't know Han will do it. There is enough evidence in the film to show he'll go either way. (Why it is important that Han Solo shot first in the bar sequence, Han is shown to us as an opportunist, why come back and help Luke? Yet he bonds with Luke in the Death Star and with Leia.) Luke - the farmboy who yearns to be the fighter pilot and hero he believes his father was and get off the boring planet he fears he'll live his entire life on, he's basically the everyman who dreams of adventure. Leia - the princess who refuses to allow herself to get too close to anyone and has to have control, run the show. There is sexual tension between all three - and clearly both Han and Luke have feelings for Leia. Star Wars the film has, if you think back on it, very few action sequences. It's actually a very chatty picture. The film is set up around three major events: 1) the droids adventure on tatoonie and escape from Vader with Leia's message, Luke's solving of the message, meeting with Old Ben (Obi-Wan), meeting Han/Chewie and the Millenium Falcon as their means of escape from Tatoonie - we call this the introduction of key characters. The climatic moment - getting off Tattoonie 2) The prison breakout, which involves lots of chatting and problem-solving, the best sequences are getting stuck in the garbag shoot and dressing up as storm troopers. Then we have the brief light-saber battle and fight to get off the ship. The climatic moment when Vader kills Ben, causing Luke to feel alone, cut off from his last remaining piece of home/family, having to trust himself. 3) The battle for the death star - and Han's last minute reappearance - the wow moment.
What Star Wars does right? It focuses on the central characters:Han, Leia, Luke, Vader, Obiwan, CP30, Chewebaca and R2D2. That's it. It focuses on how these characters bond and work together to get out of sticky situations, how they overcome their personal conflicts to do so, and how this changes them.
They are different at the end of the movie.
Empire Strikes Back? Same deal. Again we have three main characters as the focus. All three start out in one place - end at another. Very few action sequences, lots of talking and buildup. The action happens at the climatic points and only lasts for fifteen minutes or less. 1) On the Ice Planet, we have the battle with the droids, and the escape - but that's only 15 min. Most of the beginning is Han and Leia worrying over Luke, Han reluctantly going back to find and save him. (It's important in each film, Han goes back and saves Luke and it's a struggle for him.) He saves him. Luke gets a kiss from Leia. Han is annoyed and decides to leave and gets roped into having to save Leia again. Luke goes off for training. (2.) Luke on Dagobah, Han and Leia running from Darth - get captured by Darth. Luke coming face to face with his fear of becoming Vader. Leaving training early to save Leia against Yoda and Ben's advice. 3) Han put in the carbon chamber after Leia finally admits she loves him. Luke failing to save Han, losing his hand, and finding out the father he'd worshipped in his heart is the demon he's been fighting all this time. Very little action here - only one long sword fight at the end, and even that is mostly talking.
Return of the Jedi- busy movie Jedi. Here's where things start to break down and become less story and more X-Box video game. Lots of action and not as much dialogue. 1) the prison break of Han (we don't see them plan it out, the film starts at the prison break, no build-up, we're already there and it's one action sequence followed quickly by another.) 2) They go to the Ewok place, again lots of action sequences, with one major talking scene around the campfire - this scene doesn't build character, tells us zip about Han, Leia or Luke - it's just about the Ewoks who up til now, we never met. Then we get a five minute sequence where Luke tells Leia they are twins, and another five minute one where Han gets jealous and says he'll be a good sport and leave and she says, no he's my brother...and he's going off to do his thing. 3) The battles, Luke fights the Emperor and Vader, Billy Dee Williams fights the air fight, Han and LEia fight Vaders forces on the Ewok planet which could be blown by the Death Star at any moment. So let's see ten action sequences in this section. Way too busy. But we still get some good climatic points, because we had the first two films.
Revenge of the Sith - suffers from the same problems that Return does. Over 75% of this movie is nothing but sword fights and ship fights. I felt like I was watching a video game. Very little dialogue in this film, and what little is there - is interspersed between action sequences. Also way too many characters. Instead of just focusing on this group: Palapatine, Padme, ObiWan, Yoda, Anakin, and Grievous. We have scenes with Senator Organa, Mace, Dooku, the Wookies, and countless others. It's a very busy movie. Most of the dialogue is speeches though. There are a few wonderful bits here - the bit where the Jedi counsel decides to use Anakin as a double agent, which made me mutter aloud, ah they created their own monster. And a wonderful speech by Palapatin to the Senate.
The story of Sith is actually an intriguing one. And Clone Wars moves nicely into it - in Clone Wars, the following things happen:
1. Anakin against Obi-wan's wishes follows a Sith to a planet, lands in her trap, and fights her almost to a standstill. Finally he kills her by giving into his rage and pain, instead of answering Obi-Wan's com message and leaving.
2. General Grievous kills over half the Jedis, and they fight him to a standstill trying to protect Palaptine. At least five Jedi sacrifice their lives to Grievous to save him. He is still captured. The two strongest JEdi, Mace and Yoda are distracted elsewhere in the city and arrive too late to stop it.
3. Obi-wan and Anakin travel to a planet to rescue a JEdi Light Sabre Crystal that has fallen into enemy hands. Something weird is going on on the planet. The male warriors keep disappearing. After killing a strange mutated beast again against Obi-Wan's wishes, Anakin is chosen as the latest warrior, he is tatooed with their emblem, and goes into the caves. In the caves, Anakin has a vision of a man who attempts to fight a mechanical monster, with a piece of it, protecting his princess and villagers by doing so, but the mechanical monster consumes him turning him into a part of it. Disturbed, he shakes this aside, and goes in to the center of the plant, only to discover that the crystal has tapped into the dark side of the force and is mutating the inhabitants of the planet, the male warriors, into mindless monsters who act on their passions. He manages to remove the manacles of one of the monsters, and it turns out they are not beyond redeemption, that they can act, even though deformed, as long as the crystal's negative influence is turned off. He reaches in with his mechanical arm and removes the crystal saving them - this segment is 20 minutes long.
Sith takes place directly after these two segments of Clone Wars. What hit me while watching Sith, was there was emotional build-up regarding character in the 15-20 minute Chapters of Clone Wars than in the 146 min Sith. Why? What did Lucas do wrong? And what does he do right?
What he does right is the political mindgames, the Jedi and Palaptine's back and forth. What does not work is there is no emotional build-up with the Padme/Obiwan/Anakin/Palaptine Quadrangle. Not really. In the final scene,where Padme and Obiwan fight for Anakin's soul - Anakin believes she's turned to Obiwan, loves Obiwan over him, which makes no sense. His jealousy of Obiwan doesn't quite play. It hasn't been built up to. Not the way that Han's for Luke was built up to in Star Wars and even Empire at times. We also don't get much of his internal battle.
What Lucas does right - is the irony. The fact that Anakin causes the very thing he fears the most - the death of Padme. That Anakin is his own worste enemy. Nice symmetry there. That the Jedi's cause the thing they fear most - Anakin's turn to the Sith, by their own decisions to use Anakin as a spy, to make Anakin a Jedi before he's ready, and by continuing,albeit unintentionally to fuel Anakin's anger at being overlooked. They give Anakin very little reason to trust him - while allowing Palaptine to get a stronger and stronger hold on both the Senate and Anakin. It's ironically amusing that the film starts with the Jedi's sacrificing everything to rescue Chancellor Palaptine from Dooku and ends with Palaptine killing the Jedis and sending them into exile, with the help of his rescuer, Anakin. Lucas' sense of irony works beautifully.
What Lucas does wrong? He forgets that the focus must always be on the characters, not the action. The action moves characters forward, not the other way around. I don't care when Padme dies, I should. I don't care about their love and I should. Why? I never see it. We don't get any sense of what their relationship is about here. No marriage. Just brief scenes, where they kiss, she asks him to be honest, he tells a nightmare, she looks anguished. Nothing meaty. Clearly Lucas could care less about romance, which is okay, but unfortunately the romance is the reason Lucas' uses for Anakin's turn to the Dark Side. And it doesn't play.
The sequence between ObiWan and Anakin at the end - the climatic battle, was beautifully shot, but far too long. It could have been shorter and far more gut-wrenching. Would have been too - if we'd built up more the relationship between Anakin/Padme/Obi-Wan. But you don't get a firm sense of any relationship between Padme and Obi-wan, certainly not enough of one for Anakin to be worried about. I didn't feel as much for Anakin as I wanted to. No, the character your heart goes out to is ObiWan. Ewan McGregor steals the movie.
He literally morphs into a young Alec Guiness in this film - you see the middle stage in that character's journey. The film was worth seeing for that.
When I look at Sith, and the later Matrix films - I see what went right, what went wrong and what might have been. I may be wrong, but I think the current obsession with violent video games has hurt action movies. They make the same mistakes so many amateur writers make - which is build to the big action sequence, make it all about the sword fights. (In the romance genre its building to the sex scenes.) The problem with that is the movie should not be about the great sword fight. Now in Sith the climatic sword fight does physically transform Anakin into Vader, it does change him. But he's changed before that fight. The fight is actually anti-climatic. Compare to the climatic sword fight between Vader and Luke in Empire - which ends with Luke truly being transformed - a huge wow moment for the viewer. No huge wow moments in Sith. I knew Anakin would lose, I knew he'd been physically damaged beyond repair. No the huge climatic moment is when Anakin attacks and almost kills Padme then goes after ObiWan to kill him. The fight is what the movie's been building up to - that's what the movie is about. Yet nothing is revealed in it. cjlasky told me he preferred Sith to Return, at the time, I agreed, now, thinking over it - I disagree. Return actually works better - again it's the big climatic moment - which is the battle between Luke/Vader and the Emperor. And that fight is more dialogue than fight, but the movies have been building to it and we get the reveal, the wow moment, which transforms everything - Luke appears to lose, the Emperor is killing him, and Vader kills the Emperor. That sequence alone is why Return is a better movie than Sith.
Did I like Sith? It was okay. It was what I more or less expected, having seen Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. Did I enjoy it as much as the first three? No. Course I was much younger then and you do look at things differently when you are younger. But I think even now, on an emotional/intuitive level I'd enjoy the earlier ones more. Why? The characters resonated with me. I felt them in my bones. Played with them in my mind. Cared what happened to them. Worried over them. And that's what it comes down to in every good story - at least for me - do I care about the characters? Do I feel their journey? Can I track it? Does it resonate? Yes or No.
Sith - I enjoyed for it's irony, for it's reflection on what happens later. Sith in an odd way makes the first three movies more interesting, gives them more texture, and for that I enjoyed Sith quite a bit.
Do I recommend it? I give it a B. Enjoyable. Worth $5. Better than the other prequels.
Oh - here's my ranking of the Star Wars films: 1) Empire Strikes Back, 2) Star Wars, 3) Return of the Jedi, 4) Revenge of the Sith, 5) Attack of the Clones,
6) Phantom Menace.
(Oh if Clone Wars counts, put it between Jedi and Revenge.)
Participated in a raffle at the movie house - for the starbright foundation. You put in a dollar each, received a nice little star with a number on it. Then before the previews of the movie begin, they held a raffle. The winner receives two movie tickets. Cjl looked hopeful. I tell him, hey, so not going to happen. I've participated in these things before, the odds are like one in a million. I never get my name picked. He didn't believe me, until the ushers took off and went to collect from other movie theaters..."Wait, this is with the whole movie house?" "Probably, look I figure it's a buck for charity, I'd have put it in regardless." He nods.The ushers come back and hold the raffle. I pull my little star out of my coat pocket...they call off four numbers, and what do you know they are the same as the ones on my little star. "Anyone have these numbers they ask?" "Uhm, I do. Or I think I do." They come forward and take my little star. "Yep, you do." People applaud. I turn red in the face. And what do you know, I get two free movie tickets to see any movie at any time at any Regal Theater until 12/31/2005. (We're aiming for Batman Begins, June 19th.)I look heavenwards and mutter, "does this mean my luck is changing? Please god?"
Then the previews starts, we want the Firefly preview but we get some good ones in its stead: "Batman Begins", "Chronicles of Narnia: The Lion The Witch & The Wardrobe" (which literally sent a chill down my spine, interesting since up until seeing the trailer had little interest in the film, now that is what a trailer is supposed to do), "Mr & Mrs. Smith", and a couple of others I can't recall off hand.
Next up the movie that I've been curious about since Return of the Jedi ended and I'd heard rumors about prequels being done.
Revenge of the Sith...
First off, I should state that I'd seen the emmy-winning animated series The Clone Wars - all 23 chapters. Revenge of the Sith starts literally after Chapter 23 of the Clone Wars and if you haven't seen these, you should. They are done by the same animators that did Samuri Jack and chapter 23 does a brilliant bit with cave paintings that literally describes Anakin Skywalker's journey. Whether or not you are a fan of Star Wars, check out these animated bits, each chapter is 15 minutes in length. Highly recommend. (Also highly recommend Animatrix for Matrix and non-Matrix fans, even if you hated the last two movies in the series, see it.) I saw Clone Wars for same reason I saw Animatrix - wanted to see the whole story. Seeing Sith without seeing Clone Wars is sort of like watching ATS without ever watching BTVS. If that makes sense.
Now...my review of Sith, which I will kindly cut tag for everyone, those who haven't seen it and don't want to be spoiled and those who could care less.
The Revenge of The Sith is the counterpart to Return of the Jedi, or it's shadow. One is the hero's journey, one is the tragic hero's fall. Both are well-known storytelling tropes, no George Lucas did not invent them, they've been around a long time. Good stories are about a character's transformation. The story shows us the character's journey, what happens to him, how he deals with it. How his choices along that journey change him, transform him for good or ill. How he deals with those choices. And his interaction with others who are on that journey with him.
For this to work, you have to build up to the choices, show why the character made the choices he or she did, the conflict within the character for them,
and how the character overcame that conflict.
Star Wars - is a three character piece. Han Solo - the reluctant hero, who overcomes his self-involvement to help Luke save the day. One of the best moments in the movie is the one when Han Solo shows up at the last minute and blows Darth off course, allowing Luke to destroy the Death Star. We don't know Han will do it. There is enough evidence in the film to show he'll go either way. (Why it is important that Han Solo shot first in the bar sequence, Han is shown to us as an opportunist, why come back and help Luke? Yet he bonds with Luke in the Death Star and with Leia.) Luke - the farmboy who yearns to be the fighter pilot and hero he believes his father was and get off the boring planet he fears he'll live his entire life on, he's basically the everyman who dreams of adventure. Leia - the princess who refuses to allow herself to get too close to anyone and has to have control, run the show. There is sexual tension between all three - and clearly both Han and Luke have feelings for Leia. Star Wars the film has, if you think back on it, very few action sequences. It's actually a very chatty picture. The film is set up around three major events: 1) the droids adventure on tatoonie and escape from Vader with Leia's message, Luke's solving of the message, meeting with Old Ben (Obi-Wan), meeting Han/Chewie and the Millenium Falcon as their means of escape from Tatoonie - we call this the introduction of key characters. The climatic moment - getting off Tattoonie 2) The prison breakout, which involves lots of chatting and problem-solving, the best sequences are getting stuck in the garbag shoot and dressing up as storm troopers. Then we have the brief light-saber battle and fight to get off the ship. The climatic moment when Vader kills Ben, causing Luke to feel alone, cut off from his last remaining piece of home/family, having to trust himself. 3) The battle for the death star - and Han's last minute reappearance - the wow moment.
What Star Wars does right? It focuses on the central characters:Han, Leia, Luke, Vader, Obiwan, CP30, Chewebaca and R2D2. That's it. It focuses on how these characters bond and work together to get out of sticky situations, how they overcome their personal conflicts to do so, and how this changes them.
They are different at the end of the movie.
Empire Strikes Back? Same deal. Again we have three main characters as the focus. All three start out in one place - end at another. Very few action sequences, lots of talking and buildup. The action happens at the climatic points and only lasts for fifteen minutes or less. 1) On the Ice Planet, we have the battle with the droids, and the escape - but that's only 15 min. Most of the beginning is Han and Leia worrying over Luke, Han reluctantly going back to find and save him. (It's important in each film, Han goes back and saves Luke and it's a struggle for him.) He saves him. Luke gets a kiss from Leia. Han is annoyed and decides to leave and gets roped into having to save Leia again. Luke goes off for training. (2.) Luke on Dagobah, Han and Leia running from Darth - get captured by Darth. Luke coming face to face with his fear of becoming Vader. Leaving training early to save Leia against Yoda and Ben's advice. 3) Han put in the carbon chamber after Leia finally admits she loves him. Luke failing to save Han, losing his hand, and finding out the father he'd worshipped in his heart is the demon he's been fighting all this time. Very little action here - only one long sword fight at the end, and even that is mostly talking.
Return of the Jedi- busy movie Jedi. Here's where things start to break down and become less story and more X-Box video game. Lots of action and not as much dialogue. 1) the prison break of Han (we don't see them plan it out, the film starts at the prison break, no build-up, we're already there and it's one action sequence followed quickly by another.) 2) They go to the Ewok place, again lots of action sequences, with one major talking scene around the campfire - this scene doesn't build character, tells us zip about Han, Leia or Luke - it's just about the Ewoks who up til now, we never met. Then we get a five minute sequence where Luke tells Leia they are twins, and another five minute one where Han gets jealous and says he'll be a good sport and leave and she says, no he's my brother...and he's going off to do his thing. 3) The battles, Luke fights the Emperor and Vader, Billy Dee Williams fights the air fight, Han and LEia fight Vaders forces on the Ewok planet which could be blown by the Death Star at any moment. So let's see ten action sequences in this section. Way too busy. But we still get some good climatic points, because we had the first two films.
Revenge of the Sith - suffers from the same problems that Return does. Over 75% of this movie is nothing but sword fights and ship fights. I felt like I was watching a video game. Very little dialogue in this film, and what little is there - is interspersed between action sequences. Also way too many characters. Instead of just focusing on this group: Palapatine, Padme, ObiWan, Yoda, Anakin, and Grievous. We have scenes with Senator Organa, Mace, Dooku, the Wookies, and countless others. It's a very busy movie. Most of the dialogue is speeches though. There are a few wonderful bits here - the bit where the Jedi counsel decides to use Anakin as a double agent, which made me mutter aloud, ah they created their own monster. And a wonderful speech by Palapatin to the Senate.
The story of Sith is actually an intriguing one. And Clone Wars moves nicely into it - in Clone Wars, the following things happen:
1. Anakin against Obi-wan's wishes follows a Sith to a planet, lands in her trap, and fights her almost to a standstill. Finally he kills her by giving into his rage and pain, instead of answering Obi-Wan's com message and leaving.
2. General Grievous kills over half the Jedis, and they fight him to a standstill trying to protect Palaptine. At least five Jedi sacrifice their lives to Grievous to save him. He is still captured. The two strongest JEdi, Mace and Yoda are distracted elsewhere in the city and arrive too late to stop it.
3. Obi-wan and Anakin travel to a planet to rescue a JEdi Light Sabre Crystal that has fallen into enemy hands. Something weird is going on on the planet. The male warriors keep disappearing. After killing a strange mutated beast again against Obi-Wan's wishes, Anakin is chosen as the latest warrior, he is tatooed with their emblem, and goes into the caves. In the caves, Anakin has a vision of a man who attempts to fight a mechanical monster, with a piece of it, protecting his princess and villagers by doing so, but the mechanical monster consumes him turning him into a part of it. Disturbed, he shakes this aside, and goes in to the center of the plant, only to discover that the crystal has tapped into the dark side of the force and is mutating the inhabitants of the planet, the male warriors, into mindless monsters who act on their passions. He manages to remove the manacles of one of the monsters, and it turns out they are not beyond redeemption, that they can act, even though deformed, as long as the crystal's negative influence is turned off. He reaches in with his mechanical arm and removes the crystal saving them - this segment is 20 minutes long.
Sith takes place directly after these two segments of Clone Wars. What hit me while watching Sith, was there was emotional build-up regarding character in the 15-20 minute Chapters of Clone Wars than in the 146 min Sith. Why? What did Lucas do wrong? And what does he do right?
What he does right is the political mindgames, the Jedi and Palaptine's back and forth. What does not work is there is no emotional build-up with the Padme/Obiwan/Anakin/Palaptine Quadrangle. Not really. In the final scene,where Padme and Obiwan fight for Anakin's soul - Anakin believes she's turned to Obiwan, loves Obiwan over him, which makes no sense. His jealousy of Obiwan doesn't quite play. It hasn't been built up to. Not the way that Han's for Luke was built up to in Star Wars and even Empire at times. We also don't get much of his internal battle.
What Lucas does right - is the irony. The fact that Anakin causes the very thing he fears the most - the death of Padme. That Anakin is his own worste enemy. Nice symmetry there. That the Jedi's cause the thing they fear most - Anakin's turn to the Sith, by their own decisions to use Anakin as a spy, to make Anakin a Jedi before he's ready, and by continuing,albeit unintentionally to fuel Anakin's anger at being overlooked. They give Anakin very little reason to trust him - while allowing Palaptine to get a stronger and stronger hold on both the Senate and Anakin. It's ironically amusing that the film starts with the Jedi's sacrificing everything to rescue Chancellor Palaptine from Dooku and ends with Palaptine killing the Jedis and sending them into exile, with the help of his rescuer, Anakin. Lucas' sense of irony works beautifully.
What Lucas does wrong? He forgets that the focus must always be on the characters, not the action. The action moves characters forward, not the other way around. I don't care when Padme dies, I should. I don't care about their love and I should. Why? I never see it. We don't get any sense of what their relationship is about here. No marriage. Just brief scenes, where they kiss, she asks him to be honest, he tells a nightmare, she looks anguished. Nothing meaty. Clearly Lucas could care less about romance, which is okay, but unfortunately the romance is the reason Lucas' uses for Anakin's turn to the Dark Side. And it doesn't play.
The sequence between ObiWan and Anakin at the end - the climatic battle, was beautifully shot, but far too long. It could have been shorter and far more gut-wrenching. Would have been too - if we'd built up more the relationship between Anakin/Padme/Obi-Wan. But you don't get a firm sense of any relationship between Padme and Obi-wan, certainly not enough of one for Anakin to be worried about. I didn't feel as much for Anakin as I wanted to. No, the character your heart goes out to is ObiWan. Ewan McGregor steals the movie.
He literally morphs into a young Alec Guiness in this film - you see the middle stage in that character's journey. The film was worth seeing for that.
When I look at Sith, and the later Matrix films - I see what went right, what went wrong and what might have been. I may be wrong, but I think the current obsession with violent video games has hurt action movies. They make the same mistakes so many amateur writers make - which is build to the big action sequence, make it all about the sword fights. (In the romance genre its building to the sex scenes.) The problem with that is the movie should not be about the great sword fight. Now in Sith the climatic sword fight does physically transform Anakin into Vader, it does change him. But he's changed before that fight. The fight is actually anti-climatic. Compare to the climatic sword fight between Vader and Luke in Empire - which ends with Luke truly being transformed - a huge wow moment for the viewer. No huge wow moments in Sith. I knew Anakin would lose, I knew he'd been physically damaged beyond repair. No the huge climatic moment is when Anakin attacks and almost kills Padme then goes after ObiWan to kill him. The fight is what the movie's been building up to - that's what the movie is about. Yet nothing is revealed in it. cjlasky told me he preferred Sith to Return, at the time, I agreed, now, thinking over it - I disagree. Return actually works better - again it's the big climatic moment - which is the battle between Luke/Vader and the Emperor. And that fight is more dialogue than fight, but the movies have been building to it and we get the reveal, the wow moment, which transforms everything - Luke appears to lose, the Emperor is killing him, and Vader kills the Emperor. That sequence alone is why Return is a better movie than Sith.
Did I like Sith? It was okay. It was what I more or less expected, having seen Phantom Menace and Attack of the Clones. Did I enjoy it as much as the first three? No. Course I was much younger then and you do look at things differently when you are younger. But I think even now, on an emotional/intuitive level I'd enjoy the earlier ones more. Why? The characters resonated with me. I felt them in my bones. Played with them in my mind. Cared what happened to them. Worried over them. And that's what it comes down to in every good story - at least for me - do I care about the characters? Do I feel their journey? Can I track it? Does it resonate? Yes or No.
Sith - I enjoyed for it's irony, for it's reflection on what happens later. Sith in an odd way makes the first three movies more interesting, gives them more texture, and for that I enjoyed Sith quite a bit.
Do I recommend it? I give it a B. Enjoyable. Worth $5. Better than the other prequels.
Oh - here's my ranking of the Star Wars films: 1) Empire Strikes Back, 2) Star Wars, 3) Return of the Jedi, 4) Revenge of the Sith, 5) Attack of the Clones,
6) Phantom Menace.
(Oh if Clone Wars counts, put it between Jedi and Revenge.)
no subject
no subject
no subject
no subject
Sithen the star like wars
The animated short films definitely benefited by being off to one side a bit. Like a Steinbeck short story, words and images had to be chosen very carefully and were chosen so by people willing to edit themselves.
Because the real tragedy with the trilogy, as it often seems with later work of authors/film makers/etc, is the potential not reached.
The Revenge of the Sith born in the moment that Lucas decided that Jedi return, they do not get revenge.
The politics of the fall of the Republic are really quite fascinating. In Star Wars, you had this child’s vision that the Republic had no complicity within its own fall. Like thinking Darth Vader killed Anakin Skywalker. To see the Senate choose Palpatine. To see them crumble bit by bit to his manipulations. To have the Jedi counsel create their own downfall through their own arrogant belief in their perfection is like dark chocolate with red wine.
While the potential of the story of the fall of a good man walking step by step to his doom… Well, hey, I like Coriolanus. I wish it played the Shakespeare circuit more often.
I had this odd thought during RotS that Anakin was the heroine of one of those 900 page dreadful novels that the Victorian’s so loved.
Innocent and naïf-like. If only she would control her impulses, but she won’t. Oh, look there is the sophisticated seductive villain whispering sweet nothings in her poor naïf ears and inviting her on a ride on his country estate where her virtue (gasp) is despoiled. Now she’s going to run around for 600 or so pages dooming everyone (gasp) before she dies. Probably with a long speech before dying of tuberculosis.
Of course, those novels don’t have as many action sequences as RotS and thus my analogy failed.
“They make the same mistakes so many amateur writers make - which is build to the big action sequence, make it all about the sword fights. (In the romance genre its building to the sex scenes.)”
Yes exactly. I’m reminded of these two romance authors who had a competition to see how many pages they could write before the characters would have sex. Because romance is about longing, not fulfillment. They’d call each other say, “Page 436 and they still haven’t done it,” click.
Action is about expectation. Will the characters that I love survive their danger? Before the danger, I have to love them. Want to be their friend, Mary Sue. Be them and toss my dodge ball in the air while listening to the end of the death star on my Star Wars audio tape (I broke more lamps that way).
As I consider video games, I wonder if it isn’t just as much Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom that aren’t to blame. At the time, I loved the roller coaster of it. But on reflection, Terminator II with its action wedded to strong characterization is a much stronger action movie.
Much to ponder.
Re: Sithen the star like wars
Because the real tragedy with the trilogy, as it often seems with later work of authors/film makers/etc, is the potential not reached.
This seems to be the case with so many popular and prolific writers who are elevated to a god-like status with their fans. Makes one wonder if the air up on Olympus is bit too thin for creative juices.
Spielberg, Scorscese, Lucas, Stephen King, Ann Rice all suffer from
this quandry. I miss the works they did in their youth, when they were unknown, did not have editorial cloute and were forced to redraft and rewrite and edit. Works such as Carrie, Mean Streets, Taxi Driver, Jaws, Star Wars, Interview with A Vampire - original innovative ideas. Now when I look at what they do, I feel lost in the busyness of it.
The Revenge of the Sith born in the moment that Lucas decided that Jedi return, they do not get revenge.
The politics of the fall of the Republic are really quite fascinating. In Star Wars, you had this child’s vision that the Republic had no complicity within its own fall. Like thinking Darth Vader killed Anakin Skywalker. To see the Senate choose Palpatine. To see them crumble bit by bit to his manipulations. To have the Jedi counsel create their own downfall through their own arrogant belief in their perfection is like dark chocolate with red wine.
Ah yes that's it, the potential that I saw at the core of the film, the story I felt that Lucas wanted to show us, but doesn't pull off. Makes me want to re-rent Titus Andronicus or re-read Corianlus. Shakespeare had it right - focus on character, insert humor, entertain, because if they hate it they will literally throw meat and rotten fruits at you.
Action is about expectation. Will the characters that I love survive their danger? Before the danger, I have to love them.
That's it. And it doesn't matter whether the action is two people having sex, shooting guns at one another, having a fight, racing cars - if you haven't built up to it, made the audience care about your characters - the characters might as well be running in place and the audience would have the same reaction.
As I consider video games, I wonder if it isn’t just as much Indiana Jones and the Temple of Doom that aren’t to blame. At the time, I loved the roller coaster of it. But on reflection, Terminator II with its action wedded to strong characterization is a much stronger action movie.
I'd agree, in some respects Terminator II was an even better action movie than Terminator I - why? We got to know Sarah Connor, she was more than a damsel in distress. What made Alien and Aliens good movies wasn't the monsters or the action, although they were certainly well done, but the characters. The secret to a good horror movie is character. The best ones have characters we root for. One of the cheesiest B horror movies I've seen - Tremors, is also one of my favorites. Why? I adore the characters, I want to know them. The reason people adored the first Indiana Jones movie - Raiders, was we fell a little bit in love with reluctant rogue archaelogist/prof Indy.
I was reading an interview with Christopher Nolan, the director of Memento and Batman Begins - they asked what he was planning for Batman. What motivated him - he said he went back to the 1973 Superman movie - which was interested in Superman as a man, a human being, not in the special effects or the magic, so much as what made this guy tick - why did he become Superman. That's the key to any story and I think people forget it when they get wrapped up in the action/sex roller-coaster ride.
it's true even within the movie
You know something's wrong when Yoda is the best-acted character. McGregor came in a middling second as far as I'm concerned. He did what he could w/the writing, which was more than even good actors like Smits & Jackson bothered to do, but he came off more as earnest than as the voice of experience.
I'm glad I saw the movie, mostly to complete the circle, but 1 of my biggest problems w/it was the paint-by-numbers way they completed that circle. I'd say "connect-the-dots," but they left out too many dots (& most of those they included were cliches):
For much of the film, the only way you knew the Jedi Council was right about Palpatine & not the other way around was that the ominous music played during Palpatine's scenes. They never showed him consolidating power over the Senate; until his big speech at the end, they just had some Jedi & Padme say he controlled it. We never see why the Senate lets him take power unquestioningly.
We never see how Anakin goes from the light to the dark side, just that he does. OK, also why, but how the hell does he go straight from "What have I done?" to "I'm your servant"? Does he question that decision or hesitate at all before he kills the Jedi children? There's no evidence of it, & if he doesn't, was there ever an internal struggle to begin with? Did he even need to be "seduced" by the dark side, or was it more like an arranged royal marriage to consolidate power?
And Padme? AAUUUGGHH!! One of the things I liked best about the original Star Wars was Princess Leia. My 1st reaction to the prison rescue was, "Oh, please! They're gonna go rescue the princess?!" But then it turned out the princess was also a senator, & one who grabbed a gun & took action. (OK, the action she took landed them in stinky garbage w/a hungry monster & cliched closing-in walls, but did either of the men have a better idea?) In this movie, the female lead--the only female character w/real screen time--pretty much spends the entire movie being pregnant & fretful. The only time she takes action, it's to go to her man, who tries to kill her--does kill her, actually. Oh, wait--is it really murder if she's lost the will to live? 'Cause Anakin said he couldn't live w/out her, but it turns out the other way around. The one cliche they didn't follow was to have her babies become her reason to go on living. She gives them their names not quite as an afterthought, but w/out much thought or feeling either. (And how come such an advanced society can't tell a woman's carrying twins till she's almost ready to deliver them?)
I agree w/shadowkat about the irony, but even that was too formulaic. Aside from that, the best things were the special effects--especially the critters--& the sweep of the visuals. But the multi-light-saber effects were overdone; so were the "Now they're fighting over flaming-hot lava!" & the cutting off of appendages (I lost count).
I saw the 1st movie w/a bunch of science fiction fans, having been one myself for only about a year. (Good Lord. I've been in fandom half my life.) It opened during Disclave, which was actually in DC in those days, & we walked ~6 blocks to the Uptown Theater & infiltrated the front of the line, then packed 2 or 3 rows down front. (I sat next to a young science fiction artist whose space scenes I'd admired in convention art shows, by the name of Rick Sternbach; if his name looks familiar, it's probably because you've seen it on your TV screen in the credits of multiple Star Trek series as "Senior Illustrator/Technical Consultant.") I went to Revenge of the Sith w/some science fiction fans who've been friends for over 2 decades now (half my life!)...& their kids & other relatives. We bought tickets ahead of time & held seats till everyone arrived. But instead of gasping, we groaned. Instead of our eyes widening, they rolled. We laughed at lines that weren't intended to be funny (incl. every Anakin/Padme scene), & we snarked at all of the above. Seeing it w/like-minded friends was probably the best part of it. OK, & watching Yoda kick ass.
no subject
I also agree with you that something has been lost in modern cinema; the attention to and the care of the story and narrative are far less important than the action scenes. In fact, I can't remember the last film I saw that didn't leave me slightly shifty and bored.
As for the final verdict, The Empire Strikes Back was by far and away my favorite, and this one rated only slightly above Jedi for me. The Padmé/Anakin romance left me about as stone-cold as Kate Winslet and Leonard in Titanic, and I just couldn't find the reasons for Anakin's change convincing, nor were the depth and extent of his change believable. He just came off as a petulant adolescent going through a particularly sullen phase.
no subject
But the prequels, with all their fancy CGI special effects, do not hold a candle to what the originals were.
As a child - I adored the action adventure/block-buster movies. I still do (adore the ones I saw as child) - having seen a few in recent years on TV or on tape. But the recent croup of action movies? Doesn't hold a candle to the ones I saw back then. I miss the anticipation I once had for movies like Jaws, Star Wars, Empire Strikes Back, Poltergeist, Raiders of the Lost Arc...Oh they have better special effects, fancier set design, surround sound, but the characters seem to have gotten lost somehow in the shuffle.
I also agree with you that something has been lost in modern cinema; the attention to and the care of the story and narrative are far less important than the action scenes. In fact, I can't remember the last film I saw that didn't leave me slightly shifty and bored.
Struggling as well. I found myself checking my watch during this film, just like I did during the last visit to the movie theater.
Good, really good action films seem to come few and far between now a days, which is odd when so many are out.
As for the final verdict, The Empire Strikes Back was by far and away my favorite, and this one rated only slightly above Jedi for me. The Padmé/Anakin romance left me about as stone-cold as Kate Winslet and Leonard in Titanic, and I just couldn't find the reasons for Anakin's change convincing, nor were the depth and extent of his change believable. He just came off as a petulant adolescent going through a particularly sullen phase.
To be honest, was never a huge Titantic fan - because Leonardo Di Capro doesn't work for me as a romantic interest - feels too much like a petulant adolescent. That said? I did understand the appeal they had for other people - there was chemistry between them. Did zip for me. But it was there.
Wish I could say the same for Anakin/PAdme or Christianson/Portman.
But I can't. I don't see it at all. Because unlike the Leo/Kate romantic pairing - we don't see their romance, we don't really see him court her or see her resist him, or see her make that choice - it's pushed too much to the side. In Titantic is central, at the heart of the story and perhaps given too much emphasis - in fact whether or not you like Titantic hinges on whether or not you like that romance -- if it leaves you cold, the film won't work. Sith is weird - because the romance is clearly not important to the director/creator here. (I hate to say this, but I actually think James Cameron is a better story-teller than Lucas is.) He's using it
as a device to explain his protagonist's turn to the dark side. The problem is - the audience has to buy the romance in order to buy the turn - you don't? It does not work. So he has to give it more time than he is willing to give it. If he'd chosen something else, it would not have been a problem.
And now, for an unscheduled burst of rage....
God, you'd think that's a basic storytelling element. Why does she fall for him? He's such an obnoxious, sullen little snot, you can't imagine a cultured woman like Padme would go for him. Is he pretty? Yeah, he's pretty. But I'll bet there are plenty of other pretty boys around Naboo. Is he dangerous? Yeah, fine, but if that's the deal, you've got to PLAY IT UP.
CHRIST!!!!
OK. Better now.
Re: And now, for an unscheduled burst of rage....
I was watching bits and pieces of Attack of The Clones last night (which oddly, seemed both more entertaining and less muddled than either I remembered it or Sith felt. Course not entertaining enough to hold my interest and keep me from changing channels to Desperate Housewives...but I digress.) In Clones - Lucas does try to give us the romance, unfortunately - it is a dull mundane one. Anakin comes across much as you suggest, a petulant and at times whiny brat. He shows her moments of magic (cutting an apple with the force) or a rescue. But honestly - if I were Padme, I'd go for Obiwan. Far more interesting.
Anakin in Clones still seems much the child, the teen. And Christianson doesn't pull off the emotional conflict very well - watching Clones, makes me yearn for the actor who played Connor on Angel. Watching Sith, makes me yearn for him or someone like him.
I agree...why did Padme fall for him? I don't see love here so much as pity, possibly some sympathy and gratitude. But love? Never quite comes across. Which is doubly odd, since during filming of Clones, it had been reported that Portman and Christianson had hit it off - if only some of that came across in the dialogue onscreen.