(no subject)

[shadowkat]

Ugh, so very bored at work. Oh well, should be grateful for the down-time?
And I'm leaving town soon - going to Hilton Head, SC to visit my mother for her 82nd birthday. Unlike most people on the planet, I actually get along rather well with my mother. She's a kind, logical person, who unconditionally loves everyone in her family.

I've complaints about a lot of things - but when it comes to my parents? I basically hit the lottery.

Sometimes I think we all select a hand of cards when we come into this world - and that's basically what we've got to deal with - no exchanges.

**

1.) Do you like (or have you ever had) Chai tea?

Whomever did this meme doesn't know what Chai means. It means "tea". So you are basically asking if anyone has ever had tea tea.

Chai is tea.

Here's the explanation for those who don't know:

"In India, the term ‘chai’ means tea. Since most Indians drink tea boiled with milk and sugar the word has become synonymous with milk tea. There are several variations and the names usually indicate the condiment used with the tea. When ginger is added, it’s Adrak Chai. A ‘masala chai’ is a chai tea with milk and a hint of spices – cardamom, cloves, and cinnamon mostly. Saunf wali chai is the same milk tea flavored with fennel seeds. The main difference between chai and masala tea is the addition of spices. Chai is black tea and hot milk, while Masala tea will combine black tea, milk and a few spices.


With chai growing in popularity, Western tea drinkers have begun referring to milk tea as chai tea or chai latte. Latte is Italian for milk; café latte is a combination of espresso and milk similar to the French grand crème, the German Milchkaffee and the international cappuccino.

A chai latte is, therefore, a combination of tea and milk made by pouring a tea infusion into a glass of hot milk. Chai tea latte recipes use an infusion of black tea with spices like pepper, ginger, cloves, cardamom and star anise. For an Indian though, this recipe sounds very similar to the masala chai but perhaps, slightly unappealing too, as pouring the tea infusion into milk instead of boiling them all together is quite unheard of in these parts.

Meanwhile, with more Indians also choosing to drink more varieties of tea, besides chai, tea now is a broader term. It can refer to either black, green, white or even a blend. How it’s steeped and enjoyed is a personal preference – some prefer it with a little milk while others may choose to add lemon or sweeten with honey or sugar. Strong black teas accommodate milk easily while greens and whites are best drunk plain and unsweetened."

Difference between Chai and Tea

An in answer to the question? Yes. I love Chai.

2. The United Nations celebrates International Translation Day to celebrate professional language translators. Have you ever used Google Translate?

Yes. It's problematic.

3. In 1884, forty-one delegates from 25 nations met in Washington DC for the International Meridian Conference and chose the Greenwich Meridian in the UK as the Prime Meridian of the World (Longitude 0 degrees). Which degree longitude do you live on?

Approximately 74.


4. What’s your favourite snack?

Chocolate?

Comments

[conuly]

Whomever did this meme doesn't know what Chai means. It means "tea". So you are basically asking if anyone has ever had tea tea.

Chai is tea.

Not in English. In English, chai is spiced tea, just like the Sahara and Gobi are two specific deserts even though the words Sahara and Gobi etymologically come from words that mean "desert".

[cactuswatcher]

1, Yep, chai is tea. It's where the word China comes from. If people insist on calling tea made with milk or milk and spices "chai" I guess I can't stop them.

2. Translating is one thing. Interpreting is something else. I can translate from Russian and think it's a skill. One of my grand nieces is a sign language interpreter. In my book interpreting is amazing.

I haven't tried Google Translate in many years. I hope it's better now than it was then!

3. My meridian? I'm close to 111 west. Phoenix is closer to 112 west.

4. Favorite snack? Potato chips.

[kerk_hiraeth]

Personally I prefer one of three; Darjeeling, Earl Grey & Green Tea, all without milk or sugar; usually it's a variety of Green Tea though.

Never tried Chai apparently, though I have had some sort of Ginger tea once; pretty sure that wouldn't have been Chai though.

First time I heard that word was from the lips of Rupert Giles; no idea what episode that would have been. Any earlier that the first UK broadcast of Wild at Heart and that would have been during the S4 mid season break over here.

kerk

[shadowkat]

Well not exactly, unlike the two different deserts that etymologically resulted from the word desert? The word "chai" isn't an English word, it's an Indian word that the English misunderstood and misappropriated. The British being the insensitive clods that they are, misappropriated and mistranslated chai to mean a kind of tea or to describe tea (when the word chai literally means tea in India), mainly because they couldn't understand how India would see "tea" so differently than they did or would use a different word for it. Be kind of like stating tea chai = bland tea, if India was the prevailing exporter.

How do I know this? One too many Indians have ranted to me about it for twenty to thirty minutes in person, online, and at work to the point in which I have the rant memorized. So, you may not want to post what you just posted to me to someone who is Indian or from a country in that region? Or from that area of the world? They may rip you apart. (I have used the phrase Chai Tea, and previously would have agreed with you - but I've listened to their rant one to many times now, so changed my mind. They are right. We shouldn't misappropriate a word from another language to mean whatever we want it to mean just because we can.)

And here's the analogy/rant that an Indian provided online:

"So, when you say Chai Tea to someone from India, it's kind of like saying I want a Hamburger Sandwich, they will laugh at you. "

Another analogy they provided. How Europeans and European Immigrants to the US have utilized the word Indian to mean Native Americans. To such a degree that everyone born in the US prior to approximately 1980 was taught to use the word Indian to mean Native Americans. Mainly because one of the Europeans, who some people still honor and celebrate next Monday, got lost, and thought he discovered India. So he called the natives, Indians, which basically offended and pissed off, let's see...Native Americans and Indians. Kudos, Europe.

[shadowkat]

I haven't tried Google Translate in many years. I hope it's better now than it was then!

It's better.

Yep, chai is tea. It's where the word China comes from.

Wait, what?

If people insist on calling tea made with milk or milk and spices "chai" I guess I can't stop them.

I personally don't care? But a piece of advice, don't persist on calling it that in front of a pendant from India.

[shadowkat]

First time I heard that word was from the lips of Rupert Giles; no idea what episode that would have been. Any earlier that the first UK broadcast of Wild at Heart and that would have been during the S4 mid season break over here.

The word "Chai"?

[kerk_hiraeth]

Yes, sorry for not being clearer.

kerk

[conuly]

No. When you are speaking English then chai is an English word, in the same way that filmi is a Hindi word when used in Hindi - and with a meaning not like the English meaning of the word film, though the derivation is clear.

When we speak a language, the words we use are that language.

[conuly]

>How do I know this? One too many Indians have ranted to me about it for twenty to thirty minutes in person, online, and at work to the point in which I have the rant memorized

They’re wrong. This isn’t about Indian pride, this is about the fact that we need to have a standard way of discussing languages, one that is logically consistent. And that means a linguistic approach, not a “well, I’m gonna rant for ten minutes because of other reasons” approach.

And if you’re laughing at people who say they want hamburger sandwiches you’re not very nice. Why would you do that? Different people are allowed to speak differently.

[shadowkat]

Yeah, well, consider the British/English weren't exactly nice or polite when they invaded India and imposed their language, traditions, religious faith, and customs. And India understandably bears a sizable grudge. I get it. I'd be pissed too if someone invaded my country and told me that I was beneath them and enslaved everyone, imposing their culture onto mine and misappropriating my language to suite their own ends. It kind of leaves a lasting emotional stain. The East India Trading Company introduced tea to the Brits, they don't grow tea - they got it from Asia, China, India, etc.

Linguistics gets caught up in all of that, because part of the conqueror lexicon is to enforce "the conqueror's version or semantics" on the native population. And change the meaning of their words. The Welsh fought really hard to maintain their language, as have the Irish from the pesky English. India, same. I kind of respect that - even though I can't seem to master any language other than English.

I don't really care one way or the other? But I can see where the Indians are coming from? It is annoying from their perspective.

[shadowkat]

Filmi isn't the same as film though. Very different words and spellings. Sorry, you've completely lost me.

[shadowkat]

Well, to be fair no one in these comments was or is doing a good job of that, which is ironic considering the comments are about language and linguistics.

[shadowkat]

this is about the fact that we need to have a standard way of discussing languages, one that is logically consistent.

True. But good luck with that. Humans don't tend to agree on language. If they did, we would not have multiple versions of various languages. Actually, humans as a general rule appear to agree on very little at any given time.

[conuly]

They are the same word, just adapted to Hindi phonological constraints.

Filmi is a Hindi borrowing of the word film. But in Hindi it has a different meaning.

Handy is a German borrowing of the English word, weekend is a French borrowing of the English word. When used in German and in French those are German and French words.

[conuly]

If people want to complain about the after effects of the age of imperialism they should do that. They shouldn’t focus on petty trivialities, especially when they are incorrect.

[conuly]

Which is why I will continue, as always, to use the science of linguistics to determine what is and is not an English word. It’s the only thing that makes logical sense, and relatedly, the only usage rule that makes sense is that the native speech community decides what words mean in their language.

[shadowkat]

To you, it makes logical sense, because you think linguistically, and it makes sense to you. If someone doesn't think that way - it doesn't.

[shadowkat]

Kind of like the various meanings of English words, within the English language. Which makes it more likely for miscommunications and misunderstandings to result. Unless, of course, people focus less on the "word" itself and more on the context in which it is used. Etymology is interesting?
But contextual use tells one the meaning far more effectively, particularly if the individual doesn't think linguistically and etymology makes no sense to them.

[conuly]

Sure, but that's a lot like saying "To you, evolution makes sense because you think scientifically, and to somebody who believes in Creationism it doesn't make sense".

[conuly]

Indeed. Etymology doesn't define meaning. If it did, "silly" would still mean "blessed", which it meant before it meant "happy" and before it meant, well, "silly".

(frozen)

[shadowkat]

Sorry, you've completely lost me again. The analogies are making it worse. They make no sense. See? If you use an analogy that makes sense in your head to explain to someone you've never met in person and don't understand how they think, you will most likely confuse them? I learned that in this thread, so thank you for that. I'm going to be more careful with how I use analogies going forward now that I realize how confusing they can be to someone who doesn't have the same understanding of the topic that I do.

(frozen)

[shadowkat]

Sigh, again, you've lost me. I don't think we're communicating very well. And just frustrating each other. Which is probably because we think differently. People do. Tolerating it, is hard, I know.

[wendelah1]

Indeed.

[shadowkat]

It's really no wonder that discussions over semantics give me a headache. (Although the best by far was the debate over what a soul means, and whether we all have the same moral values (we don't since we can't agree on what morality means let alone moral values).)

[wendelah1]

Or if people have immortal souls...