Can't really think of a subject heading..

[shadowkat]

Hmmm...it's a beautiful, the sun is out, the sky is blue...don't worry, I'm not going to break out into song. Although the song Dear Prudence is bouncing about in my head at the moment. Hurricane? What Hurricane? Earl completely ignored us and went to visit Rhode Island instead, apparently. All that fuss and bother over nothing. Even the governor got in on the act. I swear sometimes I think NY State government is a comedy act.

Pondering whether I really want to venture out to the subway, take a 45-50 minute ride to the upper West Side, and meet up with 200 and some strangers having a picnic in Central Park. Got a message from meetup groups inviting me out to Central Park to frolic - bring rollerblades, skateboard, bike, or just good walking shoes. But the prospect of a crowded day in Central Park is not exactly enticing. Particularly after the difficult week I've had - negotiating with difficult people both inside and outside my company- enough to give me a complex. May just venture to the promenade...then again maybe not, sort of want a people free day. OR as people free as one can get living in a city.

Spent most of last night reading Buffy reviews. There's about ten on my flist alone. Which begs the question? If I stopped talking about Buffy would I lose half my readers? I'm guessing not, since I don't talk about it that much anymore.

After reading the reviews? I honestly don't know if I want to continue reading the comic books or not. The consensus, assuming there is one, appears to be that the comics are entertaining and interesting if you want to take the time to analyze the frigging daylights out of them and engage in the Whedon's favorite guessing game: what is the story exactly? And what does it all mean? Sort of similar to the tv series Lost - which liked to play a similar game. The Buffy comics remind me a lot of LOST, actually. Both felt at times as if the writers were too busy playing guessing games with their audience to actually plot out a coherent story.
While it's nice to do plot twists, your principal motivation for telling your story should not be to what extent can I shock the pants off of my audience. Nor should the success of your story be based on - how great was that plot twist! They never saw it coming! I rock!

I blame films like The Sixth Sense, The Others, Memento, and The Matrix for starting this highly annoying trend. Where the plot twist and/or shocking the audience so that their jaws collectively drop takes precedence over simple things like plot, character development, and theme. Hint - if you are spending most of your time trying to hide something from your reader/audience and are chuckling to yourself because you've managed to fool them - you are doing something wrong. You are also taking a huge risk - what if the audience considers your big reveal stupid, lacking in believability or kinda of lame? What if your audience, as is often the case with these sorts of games, comes up with a far better twist or resolution than you did or one that they felt was more shocking? Underestimating an audience or readerships intelligence or imagination is not a good idea.

The best movies, books, and tv shows - the one's I've enjoyed the most? Are the ones in which I figured out what they were doing just slightly ahead of the characters and was thrilled by it - felt it made totally sense. And was not you know, necessarily shocked so much as amazed that they actually did what I came up with - because I so did not think they'd go there. A perfect example of this is well the Buffy tv series - specifically the episodes Once More With Feeling to Smashed - I was blown away. Sure I saw the sexual tension mounting and the chemistry, and sure I saw the possibilities, but I also felt they wouldn't do it. I was over-joyed that they did. OR the plot twist in which Angel lost his soul in S2. That's when it works. I knew what the plot twist was in The Prestige before it was shown to me, but I still loved that movie. And I was more or less spoiled for the two deaths on Dexter S4, but I still loved that series.

Both Lost and the Buffy comics...did not provide the satisfying reveal. Instead the reveal was lame. And alienated the audience. Granted not everyone, but the vast majority. To give Lost credit, they at least didn't lose the characters along the way. No pun intended. Can't say the same for Buffy. The lead character, Buffy, has become harder and harder to relate to. And less and less likable. At this point - most people would like to see her get it. And they feel more or less the same way about Angel, possibly even more so. To instill that level of disgust towards your lead players in your readership takes a bit of moxie, also a bit of work. I'm not entirely sure it is a good idea. I do believe it is intentional. While I like it when writers take huge character risks, I don't like it when I feel that they've regressed or ignored the character's evolution along the way. Nor when they are doing it as a means to an end - ie, to advance a theme or message, the characters be damned. And I've sensed for quite some time now that that is what is happening in the Buffy comics. Lost at least did not do that. While Lost's ending was disappointing and bit on the sappy side, it did overall, stay true to its characters.

I know now from reading the reviews on Buffy and there are some marvelous ones...that it is unlikely I'm going to get the emotionally satisfying conclusion to the series that I was hoping for. This isn't Farscape, after-all. And Whedon is first and foremost, an old school horror writer - in the vein of early James Cameron. Whedon learned everything he knew about story from The Terminator. (Which explains a lot.). And I still think Buffy, to atone for her current stupidity, is going to seal herself into a hell dimension with all the demons - and S9 will most likely be about getting her out of it. Angel will most likely get to live so that he can continue to try and destroy the world, which he's apparently been doing since season one in the self-deluded attempt to save it. Angel and his Daddy issues... I'd say they trope Buffy's daddy issues, but considering what I've read to date? They are about even.

The best reviews are by local_max, aycheb, beergoodfoamy and 2maggie2 - go read both of maggie's, then contrast and compare. The first one demonstrates why the comics aren't working for most people, the second demonstrates why they are working for a select bunch. Which is why I'm on the fence about them.


In other news, I just watched this week's Project Runway - and have to say, to Gretchen/Andy South and Ivy's WTF' expressions regarding the winner? Right there with you! Could not agree more. The only addition that I like regarding PR - is the reactions of the people in the room to the winners and losers, before they enter said room. I completely agree with the designers - the judges clearly don't care about craftsmanship or structure. And their taste has something to be desired. That number Michael C created? I wouldn't be caught dead in. Mondo's was so much better - don't tell me he lost because of hair and makeup, because that's just dumb. Particularly coming from Nina - whose idea of hair and makeup is racoon eyes and straight hair down to her waist. And I can't stand the cloying and whiny Michael C. Casonova's win last week was mind-boggling enough - no, Heidi and Nina, only women who are sticks and don't want to move crave those pants. The series is trying very hard to paint Gretchen as a villain, but I'm not buying it. She's strong-willed and opinionated, gets the job down, and tells people where they are off. Big whoop. Far better than being a whiny passive aggressive bitch like April. And I really miss Sarah who nailed it - when she said this thing is more about torturing designers and seeing how they react than about design or craft or art. Yep. Reality shows make me dislike humans. If aliens saw our reality tv series? They'd either ignore us completely, or if they had the weaponery? Exterminate us. They should do a Doctor Who about that.

And apparently Jane Espenson is writing the 4th season of Torchwood? (according to flist - all my entertainment news these days comes from flist) That woman gets around, she was the show-runner on Caprica (which may or may not return according to flist?), and Warehouse 13 (also according to flist.). Busy lady. Lucky lady. What I want to know is - is Torchwood going to be on BBC America still or is it on Starz (where I can't get it?)

Loving Storm of Swords - this book is suspenseful and exceedingly detailed in all the right places. A pleasant surprise. Have to admit - when I see 1500 page books, I blanch in fear and foreboding. Few writers can do lengthy epics well. Too often they get bogged down in extraneous details that few people care about and does not pertain to the story. Also this novel seems to be more character driven and less about battles than the last book was. I remember getting bogged down in Clash of Kings.

Comments

[yourlibrarian]

she was the show-runner on Caprica (which may or may not return according to flist?), and Warehouse 13 (also according to flist.).

As far as I know there's been no announcement on Caprica, which has yet to air all its episodes, but one would have to assume it has been with so many people moving on. The problem with these small seasons TV keeps doing is keeping secondary cast members around when there are such enormous gaps in filming.

Jane said she had nothing to do with 13 short of co-writing the pilot, though she's pleased to be collecting royalties as a co-creator.

As far as I know it will be on Starz, though if you use Netflix you should be able to stream it.

I agree there have been some strange decisions on PR this season, though I felt the same about last season where Emilio managed to get through with the crochet and washer bikini. I also was pretty taken aback by Tim's speech -- most of Gretchen's team bought into her ideas enthusiastically, and she wasn't responsible for them dumping on Michael C. either.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

I'd add moscow_watcher's review to the recs list as hers is a great one (http://moscow-watcher.livejournal.com/87453.html).

I never really wrote a proper review, actually. I've been too busy arguing with people on the frontline and trying to get people to see what's positive. Though I did write a Spuffy meta today that's more properly formatted.

go read both of maggie's, then contrast and compare. The first one demonstrates why the comics aren't working for most people, the second demonstrates why they are working for a select bunch. Which is why I'm on the fence about them.

Not exactly how I understand it from having conversations with her about this. Going by what Maggie has to say herself, I think she has opposite feelings not based on the meta of the text, but also the anti-Bangel and pseudo-positive Spuffy of the text. The first time she read it, she thought Buffy was just being Buffy. I started posting after she'd put up her initial review and lead with the argument "Buffy is OOC" and I think she agrees now. Lots of the negative feelings Maggie has (and sorry Maggie if I'm misinterpreting this!) were because she thought Bangel was being played straight and Buffy really didn't care about Spike. After a closer reader (not a meta reading, but a closer reader of the text itself in dialogue, actions and characterization), she feels the opposite is true.

Comics are so damned subtle, you always miss something on your first read or even your second. That's why discussion is so great. You get to hear all the interpretations and make up your mind then.


Apologies for all the edits.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Ah yes, Storm of swords is brilliant! I loved every bit of it. It's the first one that has Jaime as a POV isn't it? I found it so surprising that he ended up being s likeable in a weird way.

This book is deffinitely carried more by the weddings than by the battles.

I love it that GRRM takes such care with the details, both in worldbuilding and character development, though the mass of it seems to slow him down a lot with writing on.

Don't have anything entertaning to say about the Buffy comics, I'm mostly meh! about them.

[buffyannotater.livejournal.com]

Caprica's coming back in January for the second half of the "first" season, so there are at least 10ish episodes left, if it isn't renewed. As far as I know, she has a "created by" credit on Warehouse 13 but no longer is on staff or at least "active staff". She hasn't had a writing credit on an episode since the pilot. Torchwood's going to air on Starz instead of BBC America, as far as I know. This article (http://techland.com/2010/09/03/jane-espenson-talks-torchwood-the-new-world/) for example says "it won't be one of a jewel in BBC America's crown anymore," but since internet sources aren't always reliable, maybe it'll show up there eventually?

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

My understanding is that Jane Espenson is just writing one or two Torchwood episodes (but since they only have 13 all together that is a lot), and that she wrote a little of 'Warehouse 13' back in it's first season.... but not now. I think they are planning to being Caprica back (they made a big deal about promoting it at Comic Con), I hope so!

I did get my copy of BtVS S8 #36 and I really didn't like it, but also I was going through an emergency visit to the dentist that day that had me freaked out, so I may not have been in a mood to cut Buffy a break (it certainly did nothing from it's side to cheer me up). Now that I've read some reviews I may reread it and see if I feel differently.
Regardless, I guess I'll hang in there for the bitter end....

I totally agree w/you about Project Runway! I wish they had kept Susan just for the snarky humor (was she the only one who didn't take herself so seriously? sigh). The current crop of designers spend as much time bitching and moaning as contestants on Survivor or Big Brother (and I don't watch those because I hate that kind of thing).

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

I think my initial negativity was mostly because I had been so sure Buffy didn't know that it made me unwilling to keep carrying on with the 'things aren't what they seem' thing. All of my positivity all along has been about the subtext and subversion, so without faith in that, there you go.

Still had cognitive dissonance because Joss has said repeatedly that Buffy matters to Spike, and that reunion doesn't play like that if you're just focusing on the fact that she knew all along. But your remarks helped, and then I found a way to reconcile Joss's statements with what we saw, and I was back to feeling confident about the subtext.

Also, it has just been really hard being the only one staying positive. From #33-#35 I was sure Bangel was getting gored, but the opinion wasn't widely shared or if it was it wasn't talked about. When I wrote my first reactions I was assuming I'd have to carry the flag myself again, and I just didn't have the energy. I just couldn't put myself out there again. But you picked up the flag, and that got my energy back.

More than you wanted to know!

I love the big change in our section in the world the last few days. I thought the ginormous negativity was going to swamp everything and lo and behold, we're not alone any more.

[angearia.livejournal.com]

You kept the light going, Maggie. I don't know how you did it, but you kept the light going.

My own trouble with #33-35 was because of Buffy, naturally, and how I identify with her so strongly and hold her up. It felt like I was losing my hero. And I don't feel that way anymore.

Not more than I wanted to know! I love hearing about this stuff. It makes the journey more personal. I really enjoy better understanding how you experience the story.

Any thoughts on my speculation about Spike? I'm wondering if Whedon sees Spike as so evolved that he can put the fate of the world before love now--not just in sacrificing himself but the one he loved--though I'm not sure how to frame that as heroic, but I think it could be done. Not that I think Buffy dying is in the cards--because that's so been done. But betraying her seems like something I never thought Spike would do before, but I'm now entertaining the notion because he's more than his loyalty to her.

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

Ooh, missed that. There's been such an avalanche in the last 12 hours and I'm short on sleep and so skimming. Is it in your post with pictures? Off to look...

When I wake up I want to say more about just how stunningly pro-Spike this issue is.

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

Also, it has just been really hard being the only one staying positive

*coughs meaningfully*
;-)

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

I quickly qualify: "staying positive in the sense of thinking things look rosy for folks who are anti-Bangel and pro-Spike". You don't share that agenda. You just like the comics in general.

Speaking of which, review? As always I look forward to it.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Lj must have done something - because didn't get all of the edits emailed to me this round. Thank heavens. ;-)

Regarding Maggie's first review? I was discussing how other's interpreted it not her intent in writing it (interpretation is often quite different than authorial intention) - or rather trying to do short hand for the 10 negative reviews and comments that I read. Really didn't feel like linking to all of them. Since Maggie's review more or less set everyone else's off, along with another poster's recap that I was unable to read because it is flocked and I don't have access - I used her review as the example.
They used her's as a jumping off point or an example as to how they reacted to the text.

I find the split or opposite interpretations of the same text, fascinating. Why are people interpreting it in two different ways?
And I'm willing to bet you that people outside our particular faction of fandom are doing the same thing. You probably have Bangle and Angel shippers writing similar posts. Just as you have non-shippers - beer_goodfoamy and londonkds - are examples of two shippers who had a negative reading of the comic, while stormwreath and local_max are examples of two non-shippers who had a positive reaction.

I fall in beergoodfoamy's company on the story construction front,
and yours on the shipper front. It's an important distinction.
I can't say I'm not finding the comic enjoyable - I laughed my head off reading issue 36. It made me laugh so hard, my stomach hurt. And laughter is a gift in my book. ;-)