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masqthephlsphr did a book review and before the review detailed her kinks or those items that turn her on to a story or narrative.
In fandoms - people call it bullet-proof kink , which I first saw described bysuperplin- or an item that will make you read a fanfic no matter what. Of course if the fanfic is well written, you may even fall in love with it. I stopped reading fanfic some time ago, well except for one which pushed all my kinks, that I keep waiting for new installments on, but seriously doubt they'll appear.
Anyhow - I liked how Masq applied the concept to books. I think this can be applied to tv shows, movies, music, any sort of narrative form actually. But, here's the thing - all we are doing is talking about kinks. What people fail to mention is buttons.
If a kink is whatever will make you gravitate to a narrative and latch on to it, at times obsessively, regardless of how well or badly written it is - a button is whatever will make you flip the channel, rant and rave at it, or despise it regardless of how well it is written or which friend adores it to pieces. Buttons are at times much harder to identify or admit to - buttons make people see red. They are often linked to personal baggage or childhood issues that remain unresolved and as a friend of mine put it recently, the older one gets, the more entrenched certain aspects of one's personality become.
People don't always know why they hate something and will hunt objective reasons - such as: it is poorely executed or some other type of critique. When the truth is? It just happened to push their buttons.
Then there are those sane souls who really don't care to analyze it. They like what they like and hate what they hate.
My kinks:
Hard to pinpoint and I'm certain this is not a complete list...but here it goes.
1. Strong resourceful female character, doesn't have to be a lead and does not have to be the hero - preferrably tomboyish. But not masculine or butch. A gal who can fight her own battles. Solves the mystery. Saves the guy. As an adolescent I wrote a book about a female version of Indiana Jones - I called her Jade Falcon, she wore leather pants, a leather jacket and a hat, and swung a whip. She could win a knife fight and
figure out a puzzel. But also loved men, and was their equal. (EX: Murphy in The Dresden Files, Starbuck in BSG, Rachel Morgan in Dead Witch Walking, Cordy in Angel, Illyria in Angel, Buffy, Willow, Veronica Mars, Mac...)
2. Outsiders - have a great love for characters who are alienated or march to a different drummer, not necessarily rebels. The X-Men are an example. People who society discriminates against, who aren't considered *normal*.
3. Supernatural powers - love them. Particularly telekinisis, telepathy and teleportation. Powers of the mind as opposed to the brawn. Into magic and socerey. As well as witchcraft. I like powers that require work.
4. Memory loss. How it effects people. Particularly memory loss that changes someone's personality.
5. Character reversals - when a character is flipped from good to evil in a logical fashion. I love it when a previously good character gets really dark or a villain becomes good. (Spike in Buffy was an example as was Willow.)
6. Villains who fall in love with the hero (or someone good) and/or become reluctant heroes and are redeemed. Also Heroes who fall for the Villain against their better judgement and fight against it and are almost taken over by the villian. This is similar to character reversal and is a huge bullet-proof kink of mine. Appears to be a lot of people's button. But I adore these types of tales.
7. Redemption stories
8. Reluctant heroes, anti-heroes, self-loathing characters/heroes, conflicted heroes, and/or badass sardonic heroes
9. Sibling and friend relationships which are in conflict, not happy ones. Brothers who bicker, they don't like each other but would save one another and kill anyone who hurt their brother damn it! The bickering buddies - such as the Lethal Weapon movies, have a huge weakness for Buddy films.
10. Unrequited love - not moping.
11. Psychological stories - either psychological horror, or psychological mind games or twists.
12. Stories that have a bit of philosophy or psychology in them, as well as a bit of science, love love science oriented stories.
13. Character driven as opposed to plot driven, with the focus on the characters arc.
14. Survival stories - how do we handle the disaster, the flood, getting off the island, the coming apocalypse, the viral outbreak, the dinosaurs running amok, or killing a big white killer shark?
15. Puzzels - how do we figure this problem out or find this piece.
16. Dark satiric wit or absurdist humor, subtle wit and sarcastic or sardonic word play - examples - The Office, As Time Goes By, MASH, 30 Rock, Little Miss Sunshine, Cybll, Frasier, Cheers, Taxi...subtle humor.
17. Romances that are between two characters who are equals in strength and intelligence without one necessarily dominating the other. They can both kill each other. They can outwit one another. And they can banter and often do, but when push comes to shove they got each other's backs. Doesn't have to be heterosexual - I honestly don't care as long as the relationship is between two people of equal strength. Although do have a preferance for it.
18. Heroes who are struggling with the heroism, who don't want to be heroes, who would rather not be. But have decided to be heroes because they have to.
19. Complex characters - multifaceted, and unpredictable - have no clue what they will do next
20. Ghost and vampire stories - specifically good vampires and ghosts or complicated ones. Not where they are the evil monsters that kill everything in sight like a slasher film.
21. Political intrigue or political tales - where people are manipulating one another to get something.Stories that feature tricksters or wildcard players.
Now...here are my buttons:
1. Daddy issues - particularly seeking father's approval or catering to Daddy's wishes without questioning them. Rebelling against Daddy. (Don't mind wanting to be Daddy or be like Daddy... or carrying on Father's legacy...that I like within reason) This is a dicy one, it depends on how much focus is on it and how cliche it feels to me personally.
2. Patriarchial or heavily Judeo-Christian themed stories with a patriarchial message
3. Woman wanting a baby or worrying over having a baby or biological clocks ticking - they must have a baby to be complete.
4. Prevalence of Sex jokes and bathroom humor centric comedy
5. Pratfalls or obvious humor (lots of parodies hit this), racist jokes, mean comedy or comedy that involves someone being embarrassed or the brunt of a practical joke (sometimes the Office bugs me for this reason)
6. Women are damsels or treated as weaklings or victims and there is no strong female character in evidence
7. Long drawn out torture scenes or torture for the sake of torture without character development. Just there to scare or titilate.
8. Blood and guts - gross out
9. People being eaten alive by anything
10. Bugs and Spiders (I did not watch 20 minutes of Return of the King because of the Spider)
11. People transforming onscreen into a monster - aka a giant fly, bug, or some such thing
(Yes this is ironic I know, considering what my kinks are.)
12. Sentimentality - or rather over-sentimentality, manipulative tear-jerkers. Sappy Smoochy Love stories. ( Note, not to be confused with melodrama. Just over the top melodrama).
13. Big huge man falls for the little tiny woman and vice versa.
14. Zombies (see being eaten alive)
15. Black and white characters - or villains who are unredeemable mustach twirling out and out evil and good guys who are pristine heroes
16. Stalwart heroes, people who do no wrong
17. You have to have sex or you are a complete dweeb
18. Moralistic tales - not tales with morals, but tales designed to be *preachy*
19. Legal procedurals
20. Where the people are talking to the camera and spend most of their time on camera backbiting or putting down people that they are sweet to otherwise. Basically what happens on all the reality shows. (ex - I love Project Runway, but flip the channel whenever they do the one-on-one interviews with the designers and they basically whine about their friends. It makes me cringe. Also can't handle the back-biting and sniping.)
21. Frustration stories - like the Fugitive or Quantum Leap, or Traveler - where the whole series is about the main character trying to solve one problem and they never seem to, they get close, but it always slips through their fingers - you never get the solution or at least not until the series ends five years later. These stories drive me crazy. I know they can end one of two ways and that they won't until the series is completely over with. The unresolved cliffhanger.
This list in a nutshell probably clarifies why I hate certain tv shows, books, what have you and love others. Of course, I occassionally run into a show such as Angel or Buffy that may contain my buttons and kinks, but if it contains mostly my kinks as those two shows did - I'm there. The fifth, sixth and seventh season of Buffy contained almost all my kinks - hence the reason I became obsessed.
masqthephlsphr did a book review and before the review detailed her kinks or those items that turn her on to a story or narrative. In fandoms - people call it bullet-proof kink , which I first saw described by
superplin- or an item that will make you read a fanfic no matter what. Of course if the fanfic is well written, you may even fall in love with it. I stopped reading fanfic some time ago, well except for one which pushed all my kinks, that I keep waiting for new installments on, but seriously doubt they'll appear. Anyhow - I liked how Masq applied the concept to books. I think this can be applied to tv shows, movies, music, any sort of narrative form actually. But, here's the thing - all we are doing is talking about kinks. What people fail to mention is buttons.
If a kink is whatever will make you gravitate to a narrative and latch on to it, at times obsessively, regardless of how well or badly written it is - a button is whatever will make you flip the channel, rant and rave at it, or despise it regardless of how well it is written or which friend adores it to pieces. Buttons are at times much harder to identify or admit to - buttons make people see red. They are often linked to personal baggage or childhood issues that remain unresolved and as a friend of mine put it recently, the older one gets, the more entrenched certain aspects of one's personality become.
People don't always know why they hate something and will hunt objective reasons - such as: it is poorely executed or some other type of critique. When the truth is? It just happened to push their buttons.
Then there are those sane souls who really don't care to analyze it. They like what they like and hate what they hate.
My kinks:
Hard to pinpoint and I'm certain this is not a complete list...but here it goes.
1. Strong resourceful female character, doesn't have to be a lead and does not have to be the hero - preferrably tomboyish. But not masculine or butch. A gal who can fight her own battles. Solves the mystery. Saves the guy. As an adolescent I wrote a book about a female version of Indiana Jones - I called her Jade Falcon, she wore leather pants, a leather jacket and a hat, and swung a whip. She could win a knife fight and
figure out a puzzel. But also loved men, and was their equal. (EX: Murphy in The Dresden Files, Starbuck in BSG, Rachel Morgan in Dead Witch Walking, Cordy in Angel, Illyria in Angel, Buffy, Willow, Veronica Mars, Mac...)
2. Outsiders - have a great love for characters who are alienated or march to a different drummer, not necessarily rebels. The X-Men are an example. People who society discriminates against, who aren't considered *normal*.
3. Supernatural powers - love them. Particularly telekinisis, telepathy and teleportation. Powers of the mind as opposed to the brawn. Into magic and socerey. As well as witchcraft. I like powers that require work.
4. Memory loss. How it effects people. Particularly memory loss that changes someone's personality.
5. Character reversals - when a character is flipped from good to evil in a logical fashion. I love it when a previously good character gets really dark or a villain becomes good. (Spike in Buffy was an example as was Willow.)
6. Villains who fall in love with the hero (or someone good) and/or become reluctant heroes and are redeemed. Also Heroes who fall for the Villain against their better judgement and fight against it and are almost taken over by the villian. This is similar to character reversal and is a huge bullet-proof kink of mine. Appears to be a lot of people's button. But I adore these types of tales.
7. Redemption stories
8. Reluctant heroes, anti-heroes, self-loathing characters/heroes, conflicted heroes, and/or badass sardonic heroes
9. Sibling and friend relationships which are in conflict, not happy ones. Brothers who bicker, they don't like each other but would save one another and kill anyone who hurt their brother damn it! The bickering buddies - such as the Lethal Weapon movies, have a huge weakness for Buddy films.
10. Unrequited love - not moping.
11. Psychological stories - either psychological horror, or psychological mind games or twists.
12. Stories that have a bit of philosophy or psychology in them, as well as a bit of science, love love science oriented stories.
13. Character driven as opposed to plot driven, with the focus on the characters arc.
14. Survival stories - how do we handle the disaster, the flood, getting off the island, the coming apocalypse, the viral outbreak, the dinosaurs running amok, or killing a big white killer shark?
15. Puzzels - how do we figure this problem out or find this piece.
16. Dark satiric wit or absurdist humor, subtle wit and sarcastic or sardonic word play - examples - The Office, As Time Goes By, MASH, 30 Rock, Little Miss Sunshine, Cybll, Frasier, Cheers, Taxi...subtle humor.
17. Romances that are between two characters who are equals in strength and intelligence without one necessarily dominating the other. They can both kill each other. They can outwit one another. And they can banter and often do, but when push comes to shove they got each other's backs. Doesn't have to be heterosexual - I honestly don't care as long as the relationship is between two people of equal strength. Although do have a preferance for it.
18. Heroes who are struggling with the heroism, who don't want to be heroes, who would rather not be. But have decided to be heroes because they have to.
19. Complex characters - multifaceted, and unpredictable - have no clue what they will do next
20. Ghost and vampire stories - specifically good vampires and ghosts or complicated ones. Not where they are the evil monsters that kill everything in sight like a slasher film.
21. Political intrigue or political tales - where people are manipulating one another to get something.Stories that feature tricksters or wildcard players.
Now...here are my buttons:
1. Daddy issues - particularly seeking father's approval or catering to Daddy's wishes without questioning them. Rebelling against Daddy. (Don't mind wanting to be Daddy or be like Daddy... or carrying on Father's legacy...that I like within reason) This is a dicy one, it depends on how much focus is on it and how cliche it feels to me personally.
2. Patriarchial or heavily Judeo-Christian themed stories with a patriarchial message
3. Woman wanting a baby or worrying over having a baby or biological clocks ticking - they must have a baby to be complete.
4. Prevalence of Sex jokes and bathroom humor centric comedy
5. Pratfalls or obvious humor (lots of parodies hit this), racist jokes, mean comedy or comedy that involves someone being embarrassed or the brunt of a practical joke (sometimes the Office bugs me for this reason)
6. Women are damsels or treated as weaklings or victims and there is no strong female character in evidence
7. Long drawn out torture scenes or torture for the sake of torture without character development. Just there to scare or titilate.
8. Blood and guts - gross out
9. People being eaten alive by anything
10. Bugs and Spiders (I did not watch 20 minutes of Return of the King because of the Spider)
11. People transforming onscreen into a monster - aka a giant fly, bug, or some such thing
(Yes this is ironic I know, considering what my kinks are.)
12. Sentimentality - or rather over-sentimentality, manipulative tear-jerkers. Sappy Smoochy Love stories. ( Note, not to be confused with melodrama. Just over the top melodrama).
13. Big huge man falls for the little tiny woman and vice versa.
14. Zombies (see being eaten alive)
15. Black and white characters - or villains who are unredeemable mustach twirling out and out evil and good guys who are pristine heroes
16. Stalwart heroes, people who do no wrong
17. You have to have sex or you are a complete dweeb
18. Moralistic tales - not tales with morals, but tales designed to be *preachy*
19. Legal procedurals
20. Where the people are talking to the camera and spend most of their time on camera backbiting or putting down people that they are sweet to otherwise. Basically what happens on all the reality shows. (ex - I love Project Runway, but flip the channel whenever they do the one-on-one interviews with the designers and they basically whine about their friends. It makes me cringe. Also can't handle the back-biting and sniping.)
21. Frustration stories - like the Fugitive or Quantum Leap, or Traveler - where the whole series is about the main character trying to solve one problem and they never seem to, they get close, but it always slips through their fingers - you never get the solution or at least not until the series ends five years later. These stories drive me crazy. I know they can end one of two ways and that they won't until the series is completely over with. The unresolved cliffhanger.
This list in a nutshell probably clarifies why I hate certain tv shows, books, what have you and love others. Of course, I occassionally run into a show such as Angel or Buffy that may contain my buttons and kinks, but if it contains mostly my kinks as those two shows did - I'm there. The fifth, sixth and seventh season of Buffy contained almost all my kinks - hence the reason I became obsessed.
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no subject
Date: 2007-05-30 03:41 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-30 04:02 am (UTC)Heh. Totally agree. I love the "You Kinks are My Buttons" discussion/wank that gets kicked around fandom every few months. I mean, we all know this stuff, it's nothing really new, but like the great Why Slash? debate, we keep dragging out the same arguments. It's kinda fun! I love how fandom has learned to embrace the kink and the button! It's not always necessary to justify your likes and dislikes with reasons A, B, C, and D.
Often those kind of "yeah, but" arguments come from someone who intellectually understands your button, but it isn't one of their buttons
This is why my best friend and I can love some of the same TV shows (West Wing, DS9) but absolutely cannot agree on movies (dude, he thought Superman Returns was lame!).
no subject
Date: 2007-05-30 04:15 am (UTC)This is where it gets especially frustrating, when friends who came together over their love of one show/book/film, find themselves diverging over other shows/books/films. And I am referring to ATPo, because that's where my personal experience is. We feel like "if we both liked A, we should both like B, 'cause they're so much alike!" Except nothing is ever completely alike, and we make have had completely different reasons for both liking "A", that just don't intersect in "B."
And it's frustrating because it starts to feel like the community is drifting apart when it doesn't have a common focus to bond over.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-30 04:49 am (UTC)Am I familiar with this fanfic that you are waiting for?
no subject
Date: 2007-05-30 06:51 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-30 06:55 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-30 01:09 pm (UTC)It's not always so easy to defin. I've got a button above called "Daddy Issues" - then thought about it this morning, and realized okay it's not completely true - I actually do like to see that in books and film and have even written about it. No, what I should state is my button is when a girl falls for a guy because he's like a father figure to her. Yet even I see exceptions to that...no, it's more a gut response or *knee-jerk* response not easily defined or put into words. Either a story resonates for you or it doesn't.
Most of the battles I've seen on fanboards, were really regarding "how can you possibly like that? That makes me sick" or "why don't you like it?" or vice versa.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-30 01:20 pm (UTC)On LJ, on ATPO, on other fanboards, and at teaattheford. Also with friends.
Examples: on whedonesque when Veronica Mars premiered - people kept touting it as the next BUFFY - when it really wasn't like the show at all. But it had aspects that pressed their buttons in the same way Buffy did or kinks rather. What they did not understand is those aspects may have been things that turned their friends off or they ignored in Buffy. Same deal with Supernatural. People go on about how it resonates emotionally in the same way as BTVS or ATS - or has the same depth of mythos, but what they forget is that may not be true for someone else - we watch things differently. For example - many Buffy fans are *not* horror fans and do not tend to like fantasy - in fact they were surprised they liked Buffy and came to it much later, due to this ingrained dislike. These fans would never watch or like Supernatural. They did not like Buffy for necessarily the same reasons that the people who love say Supernatural did.
I've found it frustrating that all these people love Supernatural but did not fall in love with the Dresden Files - which I'm hoping gets renewed and for me, has more similarities to Angel than Supernatural does, it resonates for me in the same way. But when I take a step back, I realize we didn't like the shows we discussed for the same reasons and often focused on different aspects of them.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-30 01:23 pm (UTC)I didn't mention it above, because I don't want to embarrass or pressure the writer. It's called "Blue Skies" and has only three chapters and is by
no subject
Date: 2007-05-30 01:31 pm (UTC)That in of itself can be a button. For example if you require great dialogueand don't really care about visuals - you might dislike Heroes. A friend of mine - is all about the dialogue. She prefers films that are *talky* or *have great sound*. Me? I'm more visual. And prefer a great visual presentation. I'll forgive bad dialogue as long as the story works visually. And rarely notice accents or the background music. It's not that it is not important to me - it's just not the most vital ingredient to say a film or tv show.
Scrubs for example - bugs me in how it is presented. Ally McBeal bugged me for the same reasons. It's a style that grates. But it's not the characters story, etc - it is the presentation.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-30 02:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-30 02:09 pm (UTC)Despite all my complaints about the Dresden Files, I hope passionately that it is renewed, because with each successive episode it was starting to resemble more and more the 'verse I knew from the books, and I'd like to see it continue to evolve.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-30 03:10 pm (UTC)I remember having a similar conversation with cjlasky and a couple of other friends. I resisted VM for a while, because I dislike the high school politics and environment. I tolerated it on Buffy, and one of the reasons I preferred Buffy's latter seasons was that I disliked the high school portion. VM won me over for the adult storyline and the noir bits, the high school bits I was able to ignore. But it took a while and the episodes that focused on Veronica and high school as opposed to her father or a mystery outside of high school - annoyed me.
Yet, I had friends who loved VM for the high school bits and tolerated the noir, when the show left high school or got too *noir* they lost interest.
Buffy? I watched for the supernatural bits. VM? for the noir.
Agree on Dresden - while I did struggle with some of its departures from the books, I felt as the series moved forward it matched that universe more and more. Also Paul Blackthorn fits how I see Harry in my head. And I liked Murphy, who had begun to grow on me. It's frustrating because I can't tell if it has been renewed or not. Apparently the jury is still out?
no subject
Date: 2007-05-30 04:15 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-30 08:00 pm (UTC)Are OOC picks more revealing I wonder, or do we all just have certain things that connect for no discernible reason?
no subject
Date: 2007-05-30 08:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-30 11:21 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 12:34 am (UTC)I can't abide gross-out physical comedy, buttt...I adored Bad Santa, There's Something About Mary (the only Farrelly Brothers Comedy that I've been able to make it through), and Dodgeball - all three fit that mold.
And like you, I tend to prefer movies that are talky with character developement - but, I loved Casino Royale.
I think it's a bit like my conversation with masq elsewhere - if something hits your kink or resonates, you'll ignore what bugs you. Or maybe it is in *how* the story has been presented. Bad Santa - was a bit deeper than most gross-out comedies. Presentation is half of it - compare for example: There's Something About Mary to say Dumb & Dumber, both are gross out comedies with offensive bits to them, but completely different stories.
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 12:36 am (UTC)Bad Santa wasn't just a gross out comedy though - it was partly a satire or made fun of Xmas cheer and Xmas films in a new way. I'm wondering if that's why?
no subject
Date: 2007-05-31 12:42 am (UTC)