Ah. No worries. I do that all the time. And yes it made sense.
Now, I know what you were talking about. My analogy must have sounded bizarre, since I clearly had no idea what you meant when you wrote - "this is not a pipe" but the viewer sees the pipe. ;-)
Actually this may be a very good example of what I was trying to get at above. ;-)
Which is the reference to Magritt's painting "this is not a pipe" only will make sense to someone who a)has seen the painting or b) knows about it. Otherwise, they are left trying to envision it. Or as in the case above - if you leave out the Magritt bit, they are left thinking okay that analogy doesn't make sense...but I'll try to figure it out anyhow (without asking for clarification - which would be the better approach.).
I think this is how miscommunications happen online. We assume we know what the other person is referring to or talking about, or that we understand their experience of an event. And if their reference or point or experience lies outside of our frame of reference or experience, we, I think, wander off bewildered by it or will clumsily try to make sense of it by linking it to something we know - as I did with the cigar analogy.
In situations where the experience carries a trigger - such as sexual violence, racial violence/racial discrimination, or domestic violence - the reaction of both parties may become inflammatory, particularly if one does not have a similar experience or frame of reference. If for example you are talking to someone who had an abusive boyfriend that Spike reminds them of - they may react to your take on Dead Things and Buffy with abject horror. While if you have someone who had an abusive boyfriend or girlfriend that Buffy reminds them of - they might react to someone who hated Spike in the episode and is defending Buffy with abject horror. I actually saw those reactions happen online at the time the episode aired - there was a flame war between Buffy fans who believed Spike raped her in the balcony scene and Spike fans who believed Buffy was a domestic abuser in the alley scene. It got so bad that the moderator who had been raped - told them to shape up or she'd kick them all off the board. The same thing happened in LMTPM (between Robin sympathizers and Spike sympathizers) and Seeing Red. People assume the perspective contradictory to their own is evil. It's not. They assume that person who has that perspective is condoning domestic violence or rape, they aren't - they may just see/experience what is happening on screen differently.
Another example: I was one of five witnesses to a hit and run accident in college. The cop who took the statements told me that every person he spoke with said a different thing, some contradictory. I saw the person who took off, get out of his car, look at me and the victim, look confused. Think the victim was okay. I ran to get help. And when I got back, he was gone. The people behind me, saw the girl lying on the ground and the car driving off - they didn't see me leave my backpack by her and run to get help or see the man get out of his car. I assumed I had to get help, I did not realize someone else had already called for help.
Same thing here - you are focusing on Spike. You see him. Someone else sees Buffy and her pain, and guilt, and the war inside her, and Spike forcing himself on her in the Bronze, while you may see Spike seducing her at the Bronze.
While someone who has not seen the episode, would listen to our discussion of it and be bewildered as to why we would be interested in a tv series that has such horrific things in it. ;-)
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branchandroot
no subject
Date: 2009-08-21 03:19 am (UTC)Now, I know what you were talking about. My analogy must have sounded bizarre, since I clearly had no idea what you meant when you wrote - "this is not a pipe" but the viewer sees the pipe. ;-)
Actually this may be a very good example of what I was trying to get at above. ;-)
Which is the reference to Magritt's painting "this is not a pipe" only will make sense to someone who a)has seen the painting or b) knows about it. Otherwise, they are left trying to envision it. Or as in the case above - if you leave out the Magritt bit, they are left thinking okay that analogy doesn't make sense...but I'll try to figure it out anyhow (without asking for clarification - which would be the better approach.).
I think this is how miscommunications happen online. We assume we know what the other person is referring to or talking about, or that we understand their experience of an event. And if their reference or point or experience lies outside of our frame of reference or experience, we, I think, wander off bewildered by it or will clumsily try to make sense of it by linking it to something we know - as I did with the cigar analogy.
In situations where the experience carries a trigger - such as sexual violence, racial violence/racial discrimination, or domestic violence - the reaction of both parties may become inflammatory, particularly if one does not have a similar experience or frame of reference. If for example you are talking to someone who had an abusive boyfriend that Spike reminds them of - they may react to your take on Dead Things and Buffy with abject horror. While if you have someone who had an abusive boyfriend or girlfriend that Buffy reminds them of - they might react to someone who hated Spike in the episode and is defending Buffy with abject horror. I actually saw those reactions happen online at the time the episode aired - there was a flame war between Buffy fans who believed Spike raped her in the balcony scene and Spike fans who believed Buffy was a domestic abuser in the alley scene. It got so bad that the moderator who had been raped - told them to shape up or she'd kick them all off the board. The same thing happened in LMTPM (between Robin sympathizers and Spike sympathizers) and Seeing Red. People assume the perspective contradictory to their own is evil. It's not. They assume that person who has that perspective is condoning domestic violence or rape, they aren't - they may just see/experience what is happening on screen differently.
Another example: I was one of five witnesses to a hit and run accident in college. The cop who took the statements told me that every person he spoke with said a different thing, some contradictory. I saw the person who took off, get out of his car, look at me and the victim, look confused. Think the victim was okay. I ran to get help. And when I got back, he was gone. The people behind me, saw the girl lying on the ground and the car driving off - they didn't see me leave my backpack by her and run to get help or see the man get out of his car. I assumed I had to get help, I did not realize someone else had already called for help.
Same thing here - you are focusing on Spike. You see him. Someone else sees Buffy and her pain, and guilt, and the war inside her, and Spike forcing himself on her in the Bronze, while you may see Spike seducing her at the Bronze.
While someone who has not seen the episode, would listen to our discussion of it and be bewildered as to why we would be interested in a tv series that has such horrific things in it. ;-)