You know sometimes I wonder why I torture myself with WIP serials...and don't just wait until the whole thing comes out on DVD or in trade paperback...that way I can skip to the end and see if I'm happy, or if I get annoyed, skip ahead and see if the story gets more interesting. With WIP's you have to trust the bleeding writer to not let you down and deliver the goods...and 5 times of ten, they do, the other five, they really really don't. This is why I don't read fanfic WIP's anymore...well that and the fact that people have a bad habit of not completing the things.
Also, I can well understand why you've gotten frustrated discussing this with people and given up. The comments I've received are equally irritating. I don't like being dismissed because I happen to love the character. Because that is NOT why I think he is important to the story. I'm looking at this objectively. If he had been mentioned like Wood, I'd have shrugged and kept reading, disappointed, sure, but I'm partly reading this to see how Whedon ties it to the Frayverse if at all. But instead the writer has been dropping little hints here and there throughout the last three years...pointing out - hey did you notice who is not here??? Hint. Hint. He says "pet". Hint Hint. To the point in which I want to grab Whedon by his shirt tails and say, I get it! I get it! Spike is not here! Now quit pussy-footing around and tell me why already. Because it is getting distracting. (My main problem with S8 is how much it has drug. Sure tease us for five months, that's fine, but for four years? You better frigging deliver a good twist and conclusion if you are going to do that, or you will have a lot of annoyed fans.)
At any rate, I completely agree with you. But then I think you and I may well see Angel in a similar manner. I like Angel, but Whedon writes him as a tragic hero/anti-hero - who basically corrupts or destroys whatever he touches and is doomed to failure. A Batman character who dreams of being Superman. (Note I said Whedon, other writers vary.)
I also agree that Munroe may very well be dark foreshadowing. Buffy ends up beaten and betrayed at one point. We don't know by who, except that it is not Willow - I'm guessing Angel, although haven't we already been there, done that? Except for one thing and that is Buffy has always written off all of his Angel's bad deeds as Angelus. That Angel is good. That Angel is trustworthy. That he is not Angelus. And as a result he, Angel, didn't do those things to her and her friends. Spike's journey in some respects was a commentary on that view. I'm guessing this may be as well. That's one, two is Buffy has Daddyissues, and Angel in some respects was the stand-in for Hank (creepy but I'm convinced of it).
But back to Spike... we know Buffy and Willow's arcs are paralleling each other. We've met all Willow's ex-loves, and dealt with them. OZ, Tara, and Kennedy. With Buffy - we just have Angel, Riley....
Also we've got Giles/Andrew/Xander on one side, and Riley/Warren/Angel/Voll on the other. We're missing someone. And there's a statement Allie makes that the big question will become who takes whose side. Who will side with Twilight, and who will side with Buffy.
Plus, Allie says it is about relationships...okay. But the only relationship you did not wrap up and left hanging out in the ether is Spike and Buffy, which he has to know because of all the countless questions he's answered and teased about it. I think he is planning on resolving both B/A and B/S in these stories. I just don't know how.
And even if I'm wrong on that point...like I stated to stormwreath below...if Spike doesn't show up before the end of this arc is done...it will feel as if there's a word missing from the completed story, which I'll keep wanting to fix. Which makes the story fairly unsatisfying. You don't point out negative space, unless you have a desire to do something about it. And Whedon has gone out of his way to point out the negative space regarding Spike.
![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png)
branchandroot
no subject
Date: 2010-01-14 01:04 am (UTC)Also, I can well understand why you've gotten frustrated discussing this with people and given up. The comments I've received are equally irritating. I don't like being dismissed because I happen to love the character. Because that is NOT why I think he is important to the story. I'm looking at this objectively. If he had been mentioned like Wood, I'd have shrugged and kept reading, disappointed, sure, but I'm partly reading this to see how Whedon ties it to the Frayverse if at all. But instead the writer has been dropping little hints here and there throughout the last three years...pointing out - hey did you notice who is not here??? Hint. Hint. He says "pet". Hint Hint. To the point in which I want to grab Whedon by his shirt tails and say, I get it! I get it! Spike is not here! Now quit pussy-footing around and tell me why already. Because it is getting distracting. (My main problem with S8 is how much it has drug. Sure tease us for five months, that's fine, but for four years? You better frigging deliver a good twist and conclusion if you are going to do that, or you will have a lot of annoyed fans.)
At any rate, I completely agree with you. But then I think you and I may well see Angel in a similar manner. I like Angel, but Whedon writes him as a tragic hero/anti-hero - who basically corrupts or destroys whatever he touches and is doomed to failure. A Batman character who dreams of being Superman. (Note I said Whedon, other writers vary.)
I also agree that Munroe may very well be dark foreshadowing.
Buffy ends up beaten and betrayed at one point. We don't know by who, except that it is not Willow - I'm guessing Angel, although haven't we already been there, done that? Except for one thing and that is Buffy has always written off all of his Angel's bad deeds as Angelus. That Angel is good. That Angel is trustworthy. That he is not Angelus. And as a result he, Angel, didn't do those things to her and her friends. Spike's journey in some respects was a commentary on that view. I'm guessing this may be as well. That's one, two is Buffy has Daddyissues, and Angel in some respects was the stand-in for Hank (creepy but I'm convinced of it).
But back to Spike... we know Buffy and Willow's arcs are paralleling each other. We've met all Willow's ex-loves, and dealt with them. OZ, Tara, and Kennedy.
With Buffy - we just have Angel, Riley....
Also we've got Giles/Andrew/Xander on one side, and Riley/Warren/Angel/Voll on the other. We're missing someone.
And there's a statement Allie makes that the big question will become who takes whose side. Who will side with Twilight, and who will side with Buffy.
Plus, Allie says it is about relationships...okay. But the only relationship you did not wrap up and left hanging out in the ether is Spike and Buffy, which he has to know because of all the countless questions he's answered and teased about it.
I think he is planning on resolving both B/A and B/S in these stories. I just don't know how.
And even if I'm wrong on that point...like I stated to stormwreath below...if Spike doesn't show up before the end of this arc is done...it will feel as if there's a word missing from the completed story, which I'll keep wanting to fix.
Which makes the story fairly unsatisfying. You don't point out negative space, unless you have a desire to do something about it. And Whedon has gone out of his way to point out the negative space regarding Spike.