So Buffy Issue 34......you so don't want to know.

[shadowkat]

Well, after a difficult and stressful day at work - when I worked late, I made the colossal (okay maybe not colossal, exaggerate much?) mistake of picking up the recent Buffy comic. Comic Book Shop Boy was pleased to see me - it had been months...and I was admittedly feeling the guilt. He had four comics reserved for me. I chose two and said I'd gotten the other two through other means. I thumbed through Issue 34 of Buffy Comics, the most recent issue with the homage to Wonderwoman and Superman on the cover. And my first impression? I so don't want to wast a red cent on this thing. But, alas...I felt guilty. Comic Book Shop Boy had such a big pleasant grin.

Comic Book Shop Boy: Are you still taking the Angel comics or did you give up on those?
Me: I gave up. (Pause) Although... I'm rapidly coming close to giving up on the Buffy ones...as well(Comic Book Shop Boy laughs - he's a heavy set stocky dude with a t-shirt, beard, glasses and comes to my shoulder. I more or less tower over him.)

Me (muttering): I honestly don't know why I'm still reading these things at this point. Seriously I don't.

Impressions? Sigh, do you really want to know? I'd say it jumped the proverbial shark but I know how much you all hate that term. Let's just say the retconned plot (and yes this definitely qualifies as a retcon) gave the Fonze on his jet skis in Cypress Gardens - a run for his money.

On the bright side? I made it home - walked 10 blocks no less on a lovely day, without any, and I mean any pain in my foot! First time in two months. Yay team. (team being my body's healing powers.) Nice to have something good happen this week.



So Buffy fucks Twangel (aka Angel - although I'm going with Twangel, because I used to like Angel and now that he is Twangel - he's an irredeemable asswipe that deserves to die). They become gods. [ETA: Or as gods. Apparently there's a difference?] This opens the porthole that allows all the old ones and minions sealed off centuries ago to pour back into the earth. Causes hurricanes and tornadoes. Much death and destruction. Which the team down below are worrying about, while Faith is getting off on getting her powers back. No one else appears to be, though. Anyhow their epic fuckfest - dooms human beings and makes them obsolete. Since Buffy by sharing her power created a new species and has herself evolved to the next level, along with Angel. They are now super-beings and humans will soon be cannon fodder. Because you know, women being stronger then men...evil.

This apparently was predicted ages ago and the Watcher's greatest fear. Each slayer had the potential, but as long as they could be killed off or didn't give into their lust for vampires, the world was safe. Just let them be the weapon. The universe was waiting for Buffy. She passed the big test. She's turned the tide, upset the balance, and now with Angel who is yin to her yang, they are super-beings in the paradise of their minds, while humanity perishes in their wake.

As they fuck each other senseless and in explicit and graphic detail - seriously Jeanty should take up pornography as a second career, although I think the Spuffy sex in S6 was a bigger turn on, this I found to be laughable and somewhat ludicrious in a way that reminded me a great deal of one too many Magna comics and anime that I'd seen and read back in the 1990s - along with all sorts of cursing and muttering, and grunting. We get the verbal and the visual, folks. Anyhow as they do it - rocketing into space, because they are such the hot little item, can you even handle it??? Oh my god!! (sarcasm here folks and yes, I need a sarcasm icon this we know). We travel through time. We see past, present, and what is about to occur - apparently Spike shows up and helps Buffy with something although all they appear to be doing is looking up in shock and horror - hey maybe they are watching the Twuffy fucking? No wait, that's Dawn and the Scoobies and poor Satsu gasping in horror. Felt rather sorry for Satsu. Well at least they are fully clothed - so we know we don't get the threesome that Whedon threatened, although that may still be a possibility. (I wouldn't be at all surprised at this point if Spike showed up as TWangel's sex slave. I mean anything is possible). At least I think it is Spike and Buffy in that panel, one can never tell with Jeanty - it certainly looks like them. (that's not sarcasm in case you are wondering).

The metaphors? Oh god, I wonder what they could be??? What could possibly be the theme here??? Let me think. Ponders. Oh that's right, it's about power!! [ETC: Or celebritism (is that even a word) or the cult of celebrity. In our twisted society being a celebrity = power.] Buffy tried to give it all up and when that didn't work, she gave into it and became a god, gave into being with Angel, just went wild. Which of course had worse effects on the universe than if she'd merely given it up. And oh, wait, sharing her power - giving it to all those girls was a bad thing because it's supposed to be one girl against a million nasty male vampires who rape and murder them. Unfair you say? That's the balance folks! And the reason Buffy and Angel cause the apocalypse, the reason the universe prevents her from staking him and pushes her towards him, pushes her to give in to the glow - is wait for it, because they are the best of their kind. The worst vampire ever vs. the best slayer ever!!! They are drawn to each other!! She's drawn to her counterpart, her dark other - which of course was always Angel. It's about POWER, get it!! And how we abuse it!!!

Oh and I wonder where this is headed? Where is Whedon going? I'm on the edge of my seat with anticipation! No...wait, I know, Buffy has to seal off the demons and herself into the hell dimension as fortold by the Fray comics. They will use Dawn's energy to seal the porthole. Willow will get the backlash - driving her insane and making her immortal. Leaving poor old Angel to mope in the Buffyverse and see the results of his idiocy and why he won't be redeemed. While Xander mopes. And Faith and Spike get married and live happily ever after. (okay probably not that last part, that's also sarcasm). Personally, I'd rather see Angel sealed off in the hell dimension...but I know it's the opposite.

Sigh. I don't know about anyone else - but this plotline is making the all Penguine fanfic actually seem plausible by comparison, not to mention oddly preferable. Someone should write a penguine parody of the comic, no wait, why do a parody when the story has literally already become a parody of itself? I mean why waste time? Be sort of redundant. Remind me not to buy any books by Brad Meltzer, methinks I probably wouldn't enjoy them all that much. Since his plot arc on Buffy is giving Happy Days a run for it's money on jump the shark episodes...if he was older, I'd wonder if it was the same guy who wrote those episodes. Maybe they are related somehow? Or, wait, maybe Whedon is? Stranger things... Honestly, folks, I found this unreadable- which is saying quite a bit for me. I tend to be fairly tolerant of outlandish plots and retcons, I've watched daytime soap operas - they jump the shark on a daily basis and read X-men comics, which ahem, also does it. But this.. I scanned it quickly, got the gist, then rapidly put it away. May end up throwing the thing in the trash with the rest of my magazines. Only bought the stupid thing out of guilt.

Ugh. Bored. I think I'll go read my Rachel Morgan novel and watch In Plain Sight - time for a bit of enjoyment, don't you think?

Comments

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

I've been reading all the snarky #34 reviews out loud to my roommate in my best "prim librarian" voice. This was a fun one. Your comments about power have deep relevance to many fans' presuppositions about the next issue: It will all be about a Huey Lewis song ending the world as we know it. Because "The Power of Love" couldn't possibly be used ironically.

[ponygirl2000.livejournal.com]

Hee! Your review is my favourite so far.

I can't decide if Joss is mocking fandom and all of its cliches or if this is Joss unfiltered, pure id without any editing - in any sense. Like in a brainstorming session when you toss out those completely crazy ideas to get loosened up but quickly abandon them - instead Joss is running with it.

In any case I'm predicting a massive reset at the end of this - a Bobby Ewing in the shower level reset - I just wonder if the Frayverse will get sacrificed for it, perhaps becoming some sort of sealed off alternate timeline. Of course by the time this storyline ends it probably will be whatever year Fray takes place in.

[rahirah]

So far my main reaction to this issue is to take notes and consider the ways I can either use or subvert the 'prophecy' in fanfic...

[atpo-onm.livejournal.com]

I scanned it quickly, got the gist, then rapidly put it away

I'd wait a few days, maybe a week or so, then read it again, carefully. You may still hate it, but I read it through fairly slowly, and then read it again later in the day, and my opinion changed as I thought more about what I saw and read. The overall story information is highly compressed and tends to be very confusing at first.

Just one comment-- we are trusting Giles to be a reliable narrator here. I don't think he is. And he isn't the only one.

I think what seems to be happening is not at all what is happening, or that things will go in the direction it seems to be. I don't recall if it was Scott Allie or one of the others involved with the series who said a few weeks ago that things won't really be clear until after #35, and that even then they're "going to be very weird". At this point I truly neither like nor dislike this issue-- I'm going to see what happens next.

If nothing else, consider the number of possible meanings that the "Rorshach" on the opening page might have-- there are some beyond the obvious one that's it's also Twilight's mask.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

As a mood elevator, try Beer_good_foamy's take on the universe's so-called 'plan' for Twangel and Buffy. ( http://beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com/133230.html )

And I think I'm pissed off by how this makes insanely screwy mytharc as much as anything else. It's just... bad.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately, I'm feeling it's too stupid for even that. And I was kind of hoping for at least that much.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

I just meant to link you to beer_Good_foamy too. Read it, it's the crackfic that makes the whole thing bearable.

It was completely beyond any samblance of sanity. It was alien sex pollen squared. And don't get me started about the porn, it was about the most anti-sexy thing I've ever seen. Like having Asterix and Obelix have sex. I think you can argue the general quality of Jeanty's artork but it's not made for porn. Really not.

I can't call him Angel either, he has no resemblance with the character anyway.

Have to say, I ended up highly entertained in the end, but that was mainly because it was all so laughable and the internet was so funny.

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

If the comics were fanfiction, the would have been up at badfic_quotes faster than you can say "Georges Jeanty can't draw nipples."

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

In any case I'm predicting a massive reset at the end of this - a Bobby Ewing in the shower level reset

I used to think there was no way Joss would do that after 4 years, and that the Bobby Ewing-ing of After the Fall was all Brian Lynch's doing, but I'm not so sure anymore. It certainly seems to be the only way to redeem Angel.

...Again.

[beer-good-foamy.livejournal.com]

At least I think it is Spike and Buffy in that panel, one can never tell with Jeanty - it certainly looks like them. (that's not sarcasm in case you are wondering).

That was my reaction when that was leaked too. The white hair makes it look like Spike, but it wouldn't be the first time that the comic has messed up someone's hair colour completely - make it black, and it could just as well be Angel.

They become gods.

No, no, no. The correct phrase is "they are as gods." The big resolution to the universe's plan, the secret that's been driving the whole season, is exactly what Andrew was dreaming of in "Storyteller." I don't think it was Meltzer's and Whedon's intention that we laugh our asses off at that, but damnit, it's hilarious. As is Giles' explanation of how evolution works, which is barely even grammatically correct, and his use of the word "balance" as some sort of magical explain-all.

rocketing into space, because they are such the hot little item

I'd like to think of it more as the Earth throwing them out (or possibly up). Part of that whole balance deal. "Hey, you two! Get a room separate dimension!"

[shapinglight]

seriously Jeanty should take up pornography as a second career

Noo! Please no! Whatever opinion one may have of Jeanty as an artist, I think that most people would agree that porn is not his forte, unless they like their porn hideously ugly.

[elisi]

Sigh. I don't know about anyone else - but this plotline is making the all Penguine fanfic actually seem plausible by comparison, not to mention oddly preferable.
Amen.

[ubi4soft.livejournal.com]

These are from their twitter accounts:
Jeanty - he's very proud about using three books for the sex scenes;
Meltzer - his wife complains that he made public their sex lives;
- expects to give tones of autographs on this issue.


Why? because a lot other people were congratulating them for the hot scenes (as they were in need to go in their bunker).

Also, there's a BA fan declaring that repeatedly asked S Allie for Jo Chen to draw the sex panels.

It doesn't matter, sex sells.

It bothers me that (Meltzer/)Jeanty draw the handclasp

[moscow-watcher.livejournal.com]

(I wouldn't be at all surprised at this point if Spike showed up as TWangel's sex slave. I mean anything is possible)

My guess is that he'll join them to transmit some benign magiks-schmagiks that can be transmitted only sexually. :)

[kd0206.livejournal.com]

I honestly think they used this style of art to protect SMG and DB. Or to not get sued by them.

[hazel75.livejournal.com]

Yours sounds like the most plausible interpretation (to me) -- and it's HORRIBLE!!! If this IS what's going on, it reads to me like Joss saying a big fuck-you to anything feminist about BtVS. Maybe Joss has decided to renounce feminism and girl-power as evil...

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Hee. Thanks.

I can't decide if Joss is mocking fandom and all of its cliches or if this is Joss unfiltered, pure id without any editing - in any sense. Like in a brainstorming session when you toss out those completely crazy ideas to get loosened up but quickly abandon them - instead Joss is running with it.

Yes, makes one truly appreciate the television show's collaborative process doesn't it? Particularly the chemistry of that particular collaborative team.

In any case I'm predicting a massive reset at the end of this - a Bobby Ewing in the shower level reset - I just wonder if the Frayverse will get sacrificed for it, perhaps becoming some sort of sealed off alternate timeline. Of course by the time this storyline ends it probably will be whatever year Fray takes place in.

Stranger things have happened - in the actual comic book.
And Whedon certainly set up that possibility with Time of Your Life. That'll probably be season 9...the gang trying to find a way to push the reset button so they can save Buffy but not the demons that they sent to hell. Now...if they'd just sent Angel instead or Buffy had stacked the bastard back in S1, S2, or S3...or even after IWRY - this would NOT be a problem.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I'd like to think of it more as the Earth throwing them out (or possibly up). Part of that whole balance deal. "Hey, you two! Get a room separate dimension!"

Of possibly projectile vomiting ... ;-)

Should have thrown them into the hell portal - then the scoobies could use Willow's magics to close it and end of problem. Let the demons deal with them.

[(Anonymous)]

I'm a lurker, but I love your thoughts on BtVS and I just had to comment on this. A big WORD to everything you've said. If this was fanfic I would have stopped reading a long time ago, it's just cracktastic, crappy PrOn. Who would have thought that this is what BtVs would become? I was laffin' at the "hot" porn tho, which I'm sure is not the reaction they wanted. The only people who would find this sexy are the Bangels..and just the crazy, rabid ones at that.

Oh God, why must Spike be dragged into this 3 issue porn fest? (remember the Great and Powerful Joss promised 3 issues of PrOn, and we thought he was kidding. Silly us. *bleeech*) If they do a 3some, I'll literally be sick. Damn, Joss isn't time to get off the Blight train already? They were boring then and they're boring now, and no amount of bad Porn is gonna change that. And we know Twangel will be redeemed, Buffy will be a Hero and Spike will be screwed. Just another day in the Buffyverse.:/

Off to read more Penguins fic, they make more sense than this... Brad Meltzer books? You mean he has books? I didn't know that, unless you mean comic books. I would rather poke my eyes out than read anything by him. *nods*

I guess Andrew's dream in "Showtime" is now official canon. We are as Gods! Yay! LMAO!

~Ami

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

The metaphors? Oh god, I wonder what they could be??? What could possibly be the theme here??? Let me think. Ponders. Oh that's right, it's about power!!

Personally, I'd say it's more about the pernicious effects of stardom and the cult of personality. Buffy was already hero-worshipped by her Slayers (and scapegoated by the rest of the world); now the universe itself is fangirling her for her awesomeness. Will she develop a sense of perspective in time, or will she continue to let fame go to her head (and other parts)? Only issues 35 through 40 will tell!

[owenthurman.livejournal.com]

Someone should write a penguine parody of the comic, no wait, why do a parody when the story has literally already become a parody of itself?

This fic (http://owenthurman.livejournal.com/45531.html) was written before the even previews for #34 went up, but note the accuracy of prediction. Joss is really telegraphing the lack of sense-making now.

Porn vs. erotica

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Well I was sort of being sarcastic...(really need a sarcasm icon.)

But...have you seen male pornography? Seriously, have you? Most of it is hideously ugly.

Also, a lot of Japansese Magna and Anime - have sex scenes just like this. Monkey Punch's Lupin series - is notorious for it's graphic sex scenes that well look like this. So are some of the female magna - with adolescent girls with big eyes.

Then there's Nip/Tuck - which you haven't seen - who has beautiful bodies, but the most boring and grotesque sex scenes I've seen.

Anyhow this underlines the difference between female erotica and pornography. Jeanty is clearly drawing for male eyes. Not female. The comic is odd, because it is by men for an allegedly female fandom.
They are making fun of female sexual fantasy - yet clearly do not understand it or for that matter it's history. This may be inadvertent, I can't tell.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I don't think SMG and DB care. The only actors who are reading the things are Seth Green and Nick Brenden - according to the Paly Festival. SMG and DB have decisively moved on and don't stay in contact with Whedon.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Three books? What's that mean? That issues 35-36 are Twuffy fucking?

So apparently Meltzer has secretly been videotaping his sex life with his wife and emailing it to JEanty? Guess they are doing porn as a side-line.

Hmmm...I was half-joking when I called Meltzer a narcissitic creep in response to a comment below. Nice to have it confirmed.

Can't say I blame her for wanting Jo Chen to do it. Can't say I blame Jo Chen for turning them down.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Either that or he has apparently confused female empowerment and feminism with being a celebrity and having power. Poor guy. Can we say Serious Mommy Issues???

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Sorry, that last response was uncalled for. It's been a bad week. (And no not because of the Buffy comic...). But that's no excuse. And I apologize, you did not deserve it. Although - I did warn you to stay away from the post...if you liked the comic. ;-)

I see the celebrity metaphor. I just think it is the same as the power metaphor. I edited to clarify my post above.

And I know why they are doing it.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Off to read more Penguins fic, they make more sense than this... Brad Meltzer books? You mean he has books? I didn't know that, unless you mean comic books. I would rather poke my eyes out than read anything by him. *nods*

Yes, quite a few. I read his first novel - it was a clunker and not memorable. And I read his famous Infinity Crisis for the DC Verse that Whedon squeed over and is the reason he wrote for Buffy and co-plotted this arc. In fact Meltzer came up with the idea. The Infinity Crisis deals with a superhero who kills his wife, I think, or something like that, and Wonderwoman and Superman cover it up. Been a while...but I was unimpressed and rather offended by his attitude towards women in both, so have avoided him. He's made quite a name for himself on the bestseller lists with a fantasy series. Not to my taste. I've no idea why people like him.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

By the way, went back and edited to add "as" gods. Possibly a better statement.

No, no, no. The correct phrase is "they are as gods." The big resolution to the universe's plan, the secret that's been driving the whole season, is exactly what Andrew was dreaming of in "Storyteller." I don't think it was Meltzer's and Whedon's intention that we laugh our asses off at that, but damnit, it's hilarious. As is Giles' explanation of how evolution works, which is barely even grammatically correct, and his use of the word "balance" as some sort of magical explain-all.

Sigh. So true. This was so poorly written. I've noticed a trend lately with best-selling authors, their editors have decided oh the writer sells no matter what, we can just take a nap and not, you know, work.
I'm catching more copy-errors and typos in published works than in non-published fanfiction. That's sad. I mean, I make mistakes, we all do. But we don't have a professional editor who is paid to check our work - reading it. Nor are people paying to read us. I'm sorry if I pay to read what you write - the least you can do is have a good editor make sure it's grammatically correct and doesn't have numerous typos.

That was my reaction when that was leaked too. The white hair makes it look like Spike, but it wouldn't be the first time that the comic has messed up someone's hair colour completely - make it black, and it could just as well be Angel.

Or Andrew. I swear - it took me the longest time in these comics to figure out if it was Andrew, Riley or Giles. Either Jeanty is getting better at drawing them or I've just found a way to tell them apart...I'm guessing that latter.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

It was completely beyond any samblance of sanity. It was alien sex pollen squared. And don't get me started about the porn, it was about the most anti-sexy thing I've ever seen. Like having Asterix and Obelix have sex. I think you can argue the general quality of Jeanty's artork but it's not made for porn. Really not.

Sigh yes, my eyes, my eyes. I found it impossible to read. And I've seen real porn. Actually, to be fair to Jeanty - real porn is sort of unsexy and ugly. It's not like erotica.

It's telling that Spuffy sex in S6 - with the two actors fully clothed in Smashed, was hotter than this. I mean - they were fully clothed. No nudity. Here they are nude. Also telling that the flashbacks in Innocence - of the Buffy/Angel sex scene - where we only see flashes of skin - was hotter than this.

It is the difference - I think - between porn and erotica.

Hee. Asterix and Obleix. LOL! (Yes, my first comic books were Asterix in French and in France no less, when I was 16.)

Have you read many Magna? The sex scene reminded me a bit of Monkey Punch's Lupin III books and a lot of Japanese Magna - it's also a bit, well ugly and gross.

Have to say...definitely glad Spike is not Twilight. Although not sure if that would have been worse. About the same I expect.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

OR they could redeem Angel by saying that he's under the glowing spell of celebritism and power, and just couldn't help himself. (a la Mel Gibson).

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Huey Lewis' Power of Love

Ah yes. I'd forgotten. The song from Back to the Future.

Now, that would be funny.

[eilowyn.livejournal.com]

I think I'm now half in love with beer_good_foamy for linking this clip showing the value of Huey Lewis references in popular culture (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qwicLgOGJOI).

[ubi4soft.livejournal.com]

Three books? What's that mean?
Jeanty using three books for inspiration

That issues 35-36 are Twuffy fucking?
Joss said there will be three B/A porn issues (just what America needs) and that Spike will appear in two of them (can't say how)

All the fandom thought he was joking. Apparently, he didn't (here's the transcript http://stormwreath.livejournal.com/70109.html

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

I found it impossible to read. And I've seen real porn. Actually, to be fair to Jeanty - real porn is sort of unsexy and ugly. It's not like erotica.

I don't really make that distinction, I call it pretty much all porn, but I get where you're coming from. The typical porn produced for the male viewer,yes it's hideous and about as sexy as filming up someone's nose as a (male)friend of mine put it once.

But there is imho actually erotic porn too. I gave an example in my review of the issue, Milo Manara, who sure as hell draws for a male audience too (and fully explicit porn too), but he just manages to capture enough of what makes sex sex, for me to find it erotic to look at too.

To me it's also the combination of prudishness and pornyness that's so disturbing. If they really wanted to show sex as some primal force of nature they should have shown it natural (you know with nipples an stuff) or not at all. And I absolutely agree with you on smashed and innocence, both scenes were a world of more sexy without being nearly as explicit.

Have you read many Magna? The sex scene reminded me a bit of Monkey Punch's Lupin III books and a lot of Japanese Magna - it's also a bit, well ugly and gross.


I've read tons of Manga and I've even seen a few Hentai movies.I don't recall the sex in Lupin III but I agree your typical shonen style sucks for sexscenes, just like Jeanty does.

The real anime/manga porn is so ridiculous it's fun to watch. Nothing beats the alien sex tentacle plant that feeds on the juices of school girls.

But there are a lot of anime erotica (to use your term for good porn) or sex scenes in main stream shows that I do find hot. The sex scenes in Evangelion were all pretty steamy, but non explicit.
Also Zetsuai (shonen ai)worked quite well for me when I was 15.

a lot of it depends on gender for me. Stuff aimed at and made by women usually works way better for me than male ganze porn (though there are exceptions like Manara). And that is what this issue was - 0815 porn with fences in front of it.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Thank you, your response helped me clarify my own thoughts on a few things, including the reason why I found this comic book to be offensive in a manner that I never quite found the Japanese Magna or anime to be...

Hee. I think there is a distinction though between erotica and porn, which needs to be explored here. It's sort of similiar to pulp and literature, yet not quite. The difference is between being "fucked" or "screwed" and being made love to. Porn tends to be exploitive in nature, often demeaning, and in most cases objectifying. It makes you feel uncomfortable, gross, and demeans the human body. It's all about the fucking. Erotica is meant to titillate. It usually does the opposite - it celebrates the human body, it celebrates sex as a beautiful thing, wonderful, exciting thing...and the human spirit.. not something that is ugly and we need to turn away from or in the case of porn, that is funny or silly or embarrassing or forbidden.

I realized again this morning, when I attempted to pick up the comics again and then reading your response above - why this comic offended me. It's not that there was sex in it or that Buffy and Angel were having sex. That would have been fine. It's..well it is the same reason I found the Batsu sex in Wolves at the Gate offensive, and the scene with nurse Buffy between Angel and Spike, sort of offensive, and the scene of Spike and Angel kissing in Always Darkest offensive... It underlines our society's or rather the portion of our society that controls the media - problem with sexuality, sexual expression, and the human body. In particular female sexuality and female fantasy. Note that the comics had no problems showing people get killed. There are no nice little censored bits hiding the blood and gore. We see in the pages of this comic - in graphic detail - male vampires chomping on and killing slayers. That is drawn in detail - even down to the buttons on the lapels and the blood dripping from the mouths. But sex? Making love? Something that is not "rape"? It's made fun of. Demeaned. Jeanty demeaned the act of making love in these comics. Treated it like it was little more than screwing, fucking. Meltzer demeaned female sexuality.

I found the depiction of the sex scene and the dialogue/explanation concerning it demeaning. Apparently showing kick ass fight scenes where people are brutally killed - is okay and cool and hot. Just as it is okay to show a man attempting to rape a woman in detail or implying it. But showing a scene where two people are making love is something to make fun of, to hide, to giggle at as if you were caught with your hand in the cookie jar. It's amongst the many reasons I find the Stephanie Meyer Twilight Series unreadable.

I don't understand this. I will never understand this.

Whedon whines about torture porn and how women are treated, yet he contributes to it, when he is given the opportunity - the power to write a story about a strong woman, he demeans her sexuality for his own personal gratification. It's disappointing. Not surprising.
But disappointing.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Joss said there will be three B/A porn issues (just what America needs) and that Spike will appear in two of them (can't say how)
All of fandom thought he was joking.

We were hoping he was joking. Our ill luck. Can't say I'm surprised - it's not like the signs weren't there - hello, Dollhouse and also Always Darkest...and The Long Way Home.

Guess I'm done with the comics and Joss Whedon as a writer then.
Because what he's doing here is the reason I find the Twilight series demeaning and unreadable.

It's not the sex that bothers me, I actually have no issues with that in of itself, it's how they are depicting it and how Whedon is discussing it. I find it demeaning that he is basically making fun of female sexuality and female sexual fantasy, he is ridiculing
women. While at the same time, in the same issues, showing in graphic detail and in an almost celebratory manner women being tortured and murdered. And has shown them being tortured and murdered throughtout. Dollhouse did the same things - but I gave him the benefit of the doubt, chose to look deeper, now...I've come to the conclusion that sometimes a cigar is just a cigar and...I'm done.

Off to go read Nautibitz fanfic as an antidote. ;-)

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Oh, yes, I think you perfectly expressed the difference between this prudish, profoundly gynophobic porn that is so common and artwork that actually celebrates sexuality.

It seems to me that it is this game of tittilation with the lure of the forbidden. Where suddenly things are forbidden that are perfectly fine. Where it becomes a part of sexuality to use the woman, not to treat her as an equal partner. To perceive female sexuality as something scary that must be desempowered and possesed instead of enjoyed.

I'll never get it either. And it really does create a hostile oversexed environment for women in many ways.

It also has to do with the artificial disconnect between sex and emotion that this kind of porn always evokes.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

SMG and DB have decisively moved on and don't stay in contact with Whedon.

Can you blame them? :P

Seriously though, it's possible they might be afraid of being sued. I know Gellar still holds some image rights over the character so there could be a stipulation.

But more than likely the dude just can't draw.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Can you blame them? :P

From what I've read - not at all. Wise move on all their parts.

Seriously though, it's possible they might be afraid of being sued. I know Gellar still holds some image rights over the character so there could be a stipulation.

Actually according to James Marsters - they didn't have image rights. Which was part of the problem. Although it is possible that Gellar wisely negotiated that into her contract - she'd have enough power to be able to do that. David Boreanze on the other hand didn't...he does now.

[infinitewhale.livejournal.com]

I don't know about James, but Chen herself said she had to submit a sketchbook to prove she could draw SMG before being hired. I think it was on her site.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

It seems to me that it is this game of tittilation with the lure of the forbidden. Where suddenly things are forbidden that are perfectly fine. Where it becomes a part of sexuality to use the woman, not to treat her as an equal partner. To perceive female sexuality as something scary that must be desempowered and possesed instead of enjoyed.

Yes, I saw the same thing.

What's amusing and disturbing is a lot of fans, including the writers, actually thought this subverted superhero comics version of the sex scene - but it doesn't. It reinforces it. They haven't read enough comic books - their knowledge is limited to mainstream comics. They think they are being daring and innovative - but well it is sort of like Columbus patting himself on the back for discovering a new world, when other people got there ages before he did. He was hardly the first.

Anyone who has read magna, seen anime, or read comics outside of the traditional mainstream superhero genre - knows that Buffy is well,
status quo. And in some respects far more misogynistic in tone than the very books the story wishes to comment on.

It also has to do with the artificial disconnect between sex and emotion that this kind of porn always evokes.

Yes. When I see porn, I'm bored or repulsed.. Erotica - which ties into emotion, turns me on.

[liliaeth]

I'm pretty sure you're talking about Identity Crisis. And actually, even though it did have it's flaws, that wasn't what the miniseries was about.

It was about the investigation into the murder of the wife of a superhero. She and her husband (The Elongated Man) were both private detectives.

During the investigation it's found out that several years ago, a Supervillain called Dr Light had raped the woman in question, when he found out their secret identity or something like that. Several members of the JLA, not including Wonder Woman, Superman or Batman agreed to use Zatana's powers to not just erase the bad guy's memories, but to have him brainwashed, so he'd become a joke, instead of the threat he was. They did the same to several other villains. Batman found out, tried to stop them and was made to forget what he'd seen.

Anyway, turns out the woman, Sue, was murdered by the wife of another superhero, who wanted her husband to spend more time with her and give her more attention. And Doctor Light gets his memories back and becomes a true threat again.

And oh yes, Batman is pissed off that some people he thought were friends had wiped his memories.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

You are correct. I'd admittedly read it in the bookstore several years back and did not find it all that memorable. Dollhouse by the way does copy some of that.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Rorshach looked like hearts and sex, warped, and sort of explains why I found this issue offensive.

As for the story? I already can tell you what it is. Dollhouse.
With a bit of BSG thrown in. Except they were written better and in a far less offensive manner.

Re: Porn vs. erotica

[shapinglight]

The comic is odd, because it is by men for an allegedly female fandom.
They are making fun of female sexual fantasy - yet clearly do not understand it or for that matter it's history. This may be inadvertent, I can't tell.

Meant to say, this is an absolutely brilliant observation.

[ladylavinia.livejournal.com]

This apparently was predicted ages ago and the Watcher's greatest fear. Each slayer had the potential, but as long as they could be killed off or didn't give into their lust for vampires, the world was safe. Just let them be the weapon. The universe was waiting for Buffy. She passed the big test. She's turned the tide, upset the balance, and now with Angel who is yin to her yang, they are super-beings in the paradise of their minds, while humanity perishes in their wake.


What the fuck? Are you kidding? Is Joss Whedon kidding? I hope so. Or perhaps this B/A fuckfest is nothing more than something bad happening?