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Snarking about the Angel comics because I can't resist.
Splitting up my posts today and yesterday, partly for length and partly for content. This is the cultural post. The other was the more personal post. Didn't bother locking, because well it's not that private. I'm sort of vague.
Saw on flist plot bits about the Williams and Willingham Angel comics. Okay, does anyone else find it a bit funny that IDW hired two guys named, Bill Willingham and Bill Williams to
write the Angel comics? Especially considering the birth names of Spike and Angel are William and Liam (Irish version of William) respectively? It's almost as if they decided to get the real life versions of Spike and Angel to write these comics, (except methinks that Spike and Angel would have done a better job. Angel's a better artist, and Spike's a better writer.) Coincidence? Probably. But highly amusing all the same.
Should probably pause here and clarify a few things:
1. Outside of the first issue, I haven't really bothered with the Williams boys take on the Angelverse. Yes, it was THAT bad. Crappy art, and crappy writing. Fables it's not. Although I didn't like Fables either, but it was better written and the art was above standard comic fare. In short, me not like, me not buy. Life is too short to waste time or money on something you don't like, right?
2. I admittedly got curious about the comics again when the head editor stated that they had a plan. And a complex story arc for one of my favorite characters, aka Spike. So, I checked them out in the comic book store - to see if I'd missed anything. I didn't. So didn't waste any money on them. The story was clearly written for 12 year old boys with a low-brow and somewhat sexist, and definitely adolescent sense of humor. It's called Immortality for Dummies and features the amazing misadventures of Connor the wonderboy! (If you liked Connor in Angel S4 and think he was pod!Connor in S5, I wouldn't recommend the comics - which are basically told from pod!Connor's perspective and appear to be written by pod!Connor and drawn by Andrew.)
3. I pretty much view the comics, regardless of who is writing them or producing them as a type of fanfic, similar to Pride and Prejudice and Zombies. It's basically a series of what-if scenarios, some better written than others. With one major difference - unlike fanfic, I can actually analyze, make fun of, criticize and review the comics without worrying about the writer's friends acting as if I killed their favorite puppy. Part of the reason for this - is well, the comic book writer and artist is being paid. Granted not all that much. But still. And the other reason? We have to pay for it - which means we should review it to protect poor unsuspecting souls from wasting their hard earned pennies on this stuff. Fanfic? Free. And yes, I know, some people think the comics are canonical to the tv series. I've yet to hear a convincing argument on this. I'm sorry, but Whedon is not God, he's the Wizard of OZ.
That said, I do have my preferences regarding the comics. I will read and take as comic Angelverse canon anything written by Brian Lynch and in some cases, Peter David. But no one else. Peter David did Angel Only Human - the Illyria/Gunn mini-series. And gave Spike - the only vampire to date, outside of Harmony and Webs, an actual last name. David's Spike is a bit too good for my taste, but what can you do? I don't buy any of the other writers comics at IDW.
And I won't. But I will make fun of whatever bits I hear about them.
As for the Buffy comics? I will most likely still read anything written by Whedon, even if the guy has gotten a bit creepy for my taste - a little sexual violence goes a long long way.
And anything drawn by Joan Chen. Also, more or less anything written by Drew Goddard.
Brian K. Vaughn and Doug Petrie were also not that bad. Jane Espenson was okay. The rest?
No way in heck. Brad Meltzer? You couldn't pay me to read - well you could, but the going rate is five billion.
Now that the clarifying is over with...the latest plot spoiler from the Angel comics is...
wait for it...Spike is acting like a jerk or berk, because he lost his soul. Okay. Apparently
Spike without a soul is just a womanizing, snarky, jealous, narcissitic show-off who saves people to make himself look good - hmmm reminds me of some famous actors and writers who shall remain nameless...does this mean they don't have souls? Did Mel Gibson lose his soul sometime around the filming of The PAssion - because that would explain a lot, wouldn't it? While Angel without a soul - is a psychotic killer who pulls hearts out of women, and kills people. Good to know. What throws me is that somehow Spike lost his soul without noticing that he did? Alrighty then. The soul drove him nuts in S7 and plagued him in S5 Angel, it's the thing that he worked so hard to obtain, it burned so badly, and it is how he burned up in flames - yet he doesn't notice when it what disappears??? Yeah, right. Also he's apparently asking Hollywood to write him a prophecy that makes him the hero who gets the girl - a prophecy that ironically looks a lot like what Whedon is doing in the Buffy comics? Are we supposed to take these things seriously? I doubt it. It sounds like a complete parody to me.
Other bit that read on flist...apparently someone on Whedonesque thinks Angelus would make a sophisticated and talented lover? My reaction? Well yeah, if you happen to be a masochist who is into heavy BSM, or a sadist for that matter. If so, may I recommend the works of the Marquis de Sade?
Saw on flist plot bits about the Williams and Willingham Angel comics. Okay, does anyone else find it a bit funny that IDW hired two guys named, Bill Willingham and Bill Williams to
write the Angel comics? Especially considering the birth names of Spike and Angel are William and Liam (Irish version of William) respectively? It's almost as if they decided to get the real life versions of Spike and Angel to write these comics, (except methinks that Spike and Angel would have done a better job. Angel's a better artist, and Spike's a better writer.) Coincidence? Probably. But highly amusing all the same.
Should probably pause here and clarify a few things:
1. Outside of the first issue, I haven't really bothered with the Williams boys take on the Angelverse. Yes, it was THAT bad. Crappy art, and crappy writing. Fables it's not. Although I didn't like Fables either, but it was better written and the art was above standard comic fare. In short, me not like, me not buy. Life is too short to waste time or money on something you don't like, right?
2. I admittedly got curious about the comics again when the head editor stated that they had a plan. And a complex story arc for one of my favorite characters, aka Spike. So, I checked them out in the comic book store - to see if I'd missed anything. I didn't. So didn't waste any money on them. The story was clearly written for 12 year old boys with a low-brow and somewhat sexist, and definitely adolescent sense of humor. It's called Immortality for Dummies and features the amazing misadventures of Connor the wonderboy! (If you liked Connor in Angel S4 and think he was pod!Connor in S5, I wouldn't recommend the comics - which are basically told from pod!Connor's perspective and appear to be written by pod!Connor and drawn by Andrew.)
3. I pretty much view the comics, regardless of who is writing them or producing them as a type of fanfic, similar to Pride and Prejudice and Zombies. It's basically a series of what-if scenarios, some better written than others. With one major difference - unlike fanfic, I can actually analyze, make fun of, criticize and review the comics without worrying about the writer's friends acting as if I killed their favorite puppy. Part of the reason for this - is well, the comic book writer and artist is being paid. Granted not all that much. But still. And the other reason? We have to pay for it - which means we should review it to protect poor unsuspecting souls from wasting their hard earned pennies on this stuff. Fanfic? Free. And yes, I know, some people think the comics are canonical to the tv series. I've yet to hear a convincing argument on this. I'm sorry, but Whedon is not God, he's the Wizard of OZ.
That said, I do have my preferences regarding the comics. I will read and take as comic Angelverse canon anything written by Brian Lynch and in some cases, Peter David. But no one else. Peter David did Angel Only Human - the Illyria/Gunn mini-series. And gave Spike - the only vampire to date, outside of Harmony and Webs, an actual last name. David's Spike is a bit too good for my taste, but what can you do? I don't buy any of the other writers comics at IDW.
And I won't. But I will make fun of whatever bits I hear about them.
As for the Buffy comics? I will most likely still read anything written by Whedon, even if the guy has gotten a bit creepy for my taste - a little sexual violence goes a long long way.
And anything drawn by Joan Chen. Also, more or less anything written by Drew Goddard.
Brian K. Vaughn and Doug Petrie were also not that bad. Jane Espenson was okay. The rest?
No way in heck. Brad Meltzer? You couldn't pay me to read - well you could, but the going rate is five billion.
Now that the clarifying is over with...the latest plot spoiler from the Angel comics is...
wait for it...Spike is acting like a jerk or berk, because he lost his soul. Okay. Apparently
Spike without a soul is just a womanizing, snarky, jealous, narcissitic show-off who saves people to make himself look good - hmmm reminds me of some famous actors and writers who shall remain nameless...does this mean they don't have souls? Did Mel Gibson lose his soul sometime around the filming of The PAssion - because that would explain a lot, wouldn't it? While Angel without a soul - is a psychotic killer who pulls hearts out of women, and kills people. Good to know. What throws me is that somehow Spike lost his soul without noticing that he did? Alrighty then. The soul drove him nuts in S7 and plagued him in S5 Angel, it's the thing that he worked so hard to obtain, it burned so badly, and it is how he burned up in flames - yet he doesn't notice when it what disappears??? Yeah, right. Also he's apparently asking Hollywood to write him a prophecy that makes him the hero who gets the girl - a prophecy that ironically looks a lot like what Whedon is doing in the Buffy comics? Are we supposed to take these things seriously? I doubt it. It sounds like a complete parody to me.
Other bit that read on flist...apparently someone on Whedonesque thinks Angelus would make a sophisticated and talented lover? My reaction? Well yeah, if you happen to be a masochist who is into heavy BSM, or a sadist for that matter. If so, may I recommend the works of the Marquis de Sade?
no subject
It seems to me that again, this comic is about TV fans buying it. And because that's the case, they need to rethink it. Because they're showing they're incapable of hiring famous writers who can actually write the 'verse.
As for Brian Lynch, wasn't he relatively unknown to comics? I think he'd written a Muppets script that I don't know if it ever became anything real. And he'd perhaps had his own online comic that he'd been running.
In theory, I understand the marketing. But they're killing the quality of their product.
no subject
And when the Williams boys were first announced? There was a lot of excitement and anticipation...due to who they were.
Hey, don't signal out IDW here - Whedon and Dark Horse did the same thing when they hired best-selling novelist and DC comic scribe Brad Meltzer (who is not known to tv fans but is known to comic book and science fiction pulp fans) as co-plotter and writer. And Meltzer is just as bad as Willingham in my opinion. Possibly worse. Also, Jeff Loeb - big comic book name. And Brian K. Vaughn - also big comic book name. That's Allie's job to get big names. All the writers on that were pretty much big names.
They didn't have any unknowns.
no subject
When it comes to the Whedonverse, your name doesn't matter much at all unless you're Whedon. But because we're talking about TV fans, the only name that does matter is the title itself. I bought AtF never having heard of Lynch. Granted, it also had Whedon's name on it. But I later bought the other titles though I'd never read anything by them, nor ever heard of Willingham before this point. I don't really care that he's a big deal with Fables.
The most important name for a comic licensed for a TV show is the title itself. And if it doesn't have Whedon's name on it, then all other names are just as suspect unless you're an uber fan who also knows who Jane, Doug, and the Drews are.
no subject
A lot of the tv fans wouldn't touch a comic book with a ten foot pole. (Which always amused me.)
The people producing the comics know that they can't just market the comics to "tv fans" but to tv fans who are also comic fans.
I remember when the writers were announced - their comic credentials were often mentioned. Sure there were tv writers in the list, but it is notable that the main plotters were comic writers. And Whedon didn't attempt it until he had a comic book fan base - via Astonishing, Runaways, and Sugar Shock. Granted most of that fan base were cross-over. A high percentage of comic book fans love Whedon. I'm guessing at least 50-60 percent of those who actually buy the Whedon comics have read comics before or pay attention. There are quite a few people who loved Willingham's Fables (I know - they are on my flist) but - it is probably worth stating that not all of them picked up Whedon's Buffy comics or Willingham's Angel.
At any rate - we don't really know who buys these things percentage wise. But I'm guessing IDW and Dark Horse do know - that's their business after all. They can get demographic info from distributors and have marketing people on whedonesque, twitter, etc. And having read the interviews and whedonesque, a high percentage of the fans are well, comic fans and were comic fans prior to Buffy and do pay attention to who the writer is and if it's a name comic book writer. And I remember people getting excited when Kelley Armstrong was announced - she was a favorite writer for some fans. And people getting excited when it was announced Brian Lynch was writing the Angel After the Fall series, because they were devoted fans of his Spike miniseries. (I know I was, and I can name quite a few others who were as well.)