Not accidentally for Spike! Angel is thrown through it. Spike has the opportunity to avoid hitting Big Ben--"Turn, just turn!"--but then he decides to do it. Spike, as always, is Free Will.
Well, it was accidental up to a point...I'm not sure they had enough time to turn. Spike was never known for being a great navigator. ;-)
But yes, there are allusions to Free Will throughout. Spike - like most trickster characters - is all free will, the writer can't control him, he's unpredictable, changes his mind at the last minute. As he tells Fred in Angel S5 after she says he was brought back for a higher purpose: "They what? No. Damn them. I died. Bring me back just to play with me some more? Hah!" Angel glows and gets all starry eyed and hopeful when people mention higher purpose, Spike gets annoyed. In the comic - I think the entrance is one and another is most likely how he finds out about what is happening - he doesn't trust anyone's word for it, he does his own research.
How's that a shoutout to Wes in AtF? I don't see the connection. *curious*
I can't remember who stated this first in the reviews I read - possibly local_max. But whoever it was, was right - because in the ATF comics, ghost Wes on numerous occassions tells Angel (who is human at this point) that he really aught to seek conseling for those Daddy issues. OR something to that effect. I can't quote chapter and verse - because I no longer own those comics.
Whedon did co-write the ATF series by the way. (Well he wrote an outline, exchanged notes, and tweaked dialogue, interpret that however you'd like.);-) (I've personally given up.)
Whoa, why do you think that? Why do you think the ending was different and how so?
I actually like stormwreath's theory better on this one. Just scanned his meta a while ago. He says that Whedon hedges his bets and makes it possible that Angel could be doing something else - which means this took place even later.
Alot of fans for reasons that have never made much sense to me seem to think Lynch meant for Angel to be the noble hero at the end of ATF. Except Lynch is a noir writer and that goes against the trope. Also he made if clear that Angel sacrificed his human status (which he didn't like anyway) for super-vamp status (which he missed) in order to resurrect Connor from the dead. Undoing the whole LA HELL verse and reseting the clock, because Angel likes to do that. It was hardly noble. And then Lynch makes fun of it and Angel in Boys and Their Toys (which fans took seriously and thought was Lynch bashing Spike). I personally think snark goes over a lot of people's heads. ;-)
I don't think it'll be devoid of character exploration though. What Spike does will inform us on his character--just as hitting Big Ben tells us this is a Spike who's fully in control of his himself and making his own choices once pulled into the 'verse.
I don't know, they only have four issues left and if they are like anything we've seen to date? I highly doubt it. But hey maybe you are right. Who knows. Personally? I think it's going to be mostly exposition and a lot of fighting. I don't think Allie was being misleading here.
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branchandroot
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Date: 2010-09-06 02:00 am (UTC)Well, it was accidental up to a point...I'm not sure they had enough time to turn. Spike was never known for being a great navigator. ;-)
But yes, there are allusions to Free Will throughout. Spike - like most trickster characters - is all free will, the writer can't control him,
he's unpredictable, changes his mind at the last minute. As he tells Fred in Angel S5 after she says he was brought back for a higher purpose: "They what? No. Damn them. I died. Bring me back just to play with me some more? Hah!" Angel glows and gets all starry eyed and hopeful when people mention higher purpose, Spike gets annoyed.
In the comic - I think the entrance is one and another is most likely
how he finds out about what is happening - he doesn't trust anyone's word for it, he does his own research.
How's that a shoutout to Wes in AtF? I don't see the connection. *curious*
I can't remember who stated this first in the reviews I read - possibly local_max. But whoever it was, was right - because in the ATF comics, ghost Wes on numerous occassions tells Angel (who is human at this point) that he really aught to seek conseling for those Daddy issues.
OR something to that effect. I can't quote chapter and verse - because I no longer own those comics.
Whedon did co-write the ATF series by the way. (Well he wrote an outline, exchanged notes, and tweaked dialogue, interpret that however you'd like.);-) (I've personally given up.)
Whoa, why do you think that? Why do you think the ending was different and how so?
I actually like stormwreath's theory better on this one. Just scanned his meta a while ago. He says that Whedon hedges his bets and makes it possible that Angel could be doing something else - which means this took place even later.
Alot of fans for reasons that have never made much sense to me seem to think Lynch meant for Angel to be the noble hero at the end of ATF. Except Lynch is a noir writer and that goes against the trope. Also he made if clear that Angel sacrificed his human status (which he didn't like anyway) for super-vamp status (which he missed) in order to resurrect Connor from the dead. Undoing the whole LA HELL verse and reseting the clock, because Angel likes to do that. It was hardly noble. And then Lynch makes fun of it and Angel in Boys and Their Toys (which fans took seriously and thought was Lynch bashing Spike). I personally think snark goes over a lot of people's heads. ;-)
I don't think it'll be devoid of character exploration though. What Spike does will inform us on his character--just as hitting Big Ben tells us this is a Spike who's fully in control of his himself and making his own choices once pulled into the 'verse.
I don't know, they only have four issues left and if they are like anything we've seen to date? I highly doubt it. But hey maybe you are right. Who knows. Personally? I think it's going to be mostly exposition and a lot of fighting. I don't think Allie was being misleading here.