shadowkat | Fan Poll on Buffy Issue 36 - now that everyone's read and reviewed the thing

With the caveat that I stopped buying the issues a long time ago, so my decision now is whether or not I'll pick up the whole thing in trade paperback once it's over. I suspect that I will, but it will be for the sake of completism and research material for fic rather than because I love the story.

Thus far the only thing I've found interesting enough to think it could apply to fic is the concept that Angel is so easily blinded by prophecy. That's a pretty freaking huge blind spot to exploit.

Well, depending on what this seed of wonder thingummy is, it might turn out to be very useful. I've sort of been going on the theory that there's a lot of old Hellmouth energy still bound up in the earth in Barbverse Sunnydale in order to justify it still being a draw for demons and wizards and the like, but if there's actually some canonical magical McGuffin that would make it an attractive piece of magical real estate even after the Hellmouth closes, I will be more than happy to co-opt it.

The thing that has sort of amused/horrified me is that I had already planned some of the same incidents (though in a different way) in my never ending WIP. Right now I'm hoping that my different treatment of most of this is enough to make it not look like I'm doing some sort of 'fix-it' fic, because I've had the WIP basically plotted for 2+ years.

Oh, I feel your pain. Joss has lapped me a couple of times with things I'd planned, but haven't got around to writing yet.

Ooooh yeah, been there, living that. :D

Yep, have to admit that was the only thing that I found interesting too. Not only is Angel so easily blinded by prophecy, but what type of prophecy he's blinded by and why.
(Both Willingham and Whedon played with this but from different angles.) It's so integral to his makeup and psychology, that I'm not even sure he's aware of it. He has to believe in a higher purpose, a plan, and he has to believe that he's the star...that's he's God's right-hand man. That it is up to him to save everyone. Very twisted and somewhat post-modern take on the Hero's Journey mythos. Lucas tried to do something similar with Anakin Skywalker, I think Whedon's trying to do the same thing with Angel in a weird-ass way. (Hard to do...not quite sure Whedon can pull it off any better than Lucas did.)

At this point reading the reviews is more fun. I think I would have serious blood pressure problems if I were still buying the series.

Hate to say this - but I think I am enjoying the reviews and metas more than the comics. Which is the opposite of how I feel normally about entertainment.

I picked the last (blank) option: I didn't like #36 when I read it and felt disgusted/disappointed, but

angearia and

moscow_watcher inspired me to reread from the beginning (I just reached the half way point) and I'm actually finding that they not only hold up to rereading, I think they are improved...
I think

angearia has given me a lot of insight....
I am feeling optimistic once more than Joss will pull this off (ultimately). We'll see.
(sorry about the edit, I messed up the user names)

Edited 2010-09-10 03:25 (UTC)

LJ for some reason is having troubles with cod for lj user names.
I've had it foul up on me on numerous occasions.

You know my opin on the series, so I didn't answer the poll.

But!

Since I've now figured out the default flock unlocky thing (Say that fast!), I unlocked that Buffy toon I made up and posted back on April 15th of this year.

This should link to it:

http://atpo-onm.livejournal.com/181166.html

Those of a certain political bent will probably be uhhmm, bent, but hey-- funny for many of the rest of us, I hope.

Enjoy!

Eh. The point of the poll is not to see what individuals think (I know that more or less), but what the vast majority of readers or fans think. If you don't vote - you can't be counted. Silly. ;-)

Right now, the ambivalents have it. Not surprising. This is not a comic that inspires devotion from an emotional level, intellectual maybe...

True, my reaction is primarily intellectual. But having just read NFFY, I still think it's very powerful emotionally. There's some chance that other parts that seem drier will look differently when one reads the comics as a whole.

I do think the comics will play better with the crowd that comes to them after their done. Much as season 6 did.

Agreed. I really do feel it'll play better once its done, but also if its read all together.

I know a lot of fans who hated Buffy in Season 6 because they overidentified with her, and now they feel complete sympathy. It's not outrageous to think that people reading the story once its complete and going back to reread it will have a different emotional reaction.

I'm completely scared. I can't stop reading (Spike's there), the comics already have me on my knees (they killed Spike/Buffy for me) and now I expect to leave me dead by making Spike the betrayer (they've already trashed Angel, next is Spike).

But I have read so many interesting posts that the poison is a pleasure.

I picked #3 - I can't say it's the absolute best, but it keeps me curious and I hope Joss will manage to make it coherent.

I hope Joss will manage to make it coherent.

Hee. There appears to be some disagreement on that last bit.

Turned out that what I thought were flaws in the story that they would start fixing were not only deliberate but pretty much the basis of the entire plot. I'd been hoping for less of some things and more of others, and I got the polar opposite. This story isn't for me.

Seconded.

(I'll keep reading, I guess, just out of perverse curiosity, but I'd never buy them.)

Thirded. I'll keep pointing and gagging.

It helps that I wouldn't accept them as canon, even if you paid me. (This is not because I dislike them - I enjoyed Lynch's AtF, but it couldn't be canon even if Joss personally came and canonised it with a big ceremony.)

Pretty much a quibble, but are they 'flaws' if they are by design? I get not being interested in the sort of story that's being told. Not gonna challenge you on that. But if the point has been that the world is skew, it's not a 'flaw' that the story has shown the world as skew. Maybe it was a bad idea to tell a story about a world that's skew, but the skewness has been successfully done.

*shrug* A very loud trumpet played blatantly out of tune is still out of tune even if it's deliberate. Listening to it for four years grates. And I disagree that it's been successfully done if all it makes me want to do is plug my ears.

I hate atonal music. I wouldn't say it's flawed because it's atonal. I just make a point of not listening to it.

Exactly. But if you know that trumpet player can play a lot better, and you have good reason to believe that he hadn't noticed how out of tune it was, and you kept expecting someone to fix the monitor... maybe you'd think it a flaw. But if you get confirmation that he hears himself just fine, you either accept that he's suffering from amusia (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amusia) or that it's deliberate, and stop listening.

My point is, I thought a lot of the stuff that grated was either accidental flaws or misleads. But if it's deliberate, and if we're supposed to take it seriously... then there's no going back, there's no fixing what they don't consider broken. I don't care how big a tragedy they make of it if it's based on a premise I find utterly ludicrous. If they'd had Spike listening to Giles' explanation of the sentient universe and then laughing his ass off for five panels straight, I would probably have stuck with it. Instead he starts blabbering about aborted universes with mommy issues, and I'm out. (And I didn't mean to respond to this either. Sorry. Done now.)

No reason to be sorry. I was admittedly curious as well.
Although have to say, thought much the same thing. Spike, of all people, giving exposition??? LOL! It's sort of like the conductor suddenly deciding you know what - that trumpet player should play piano, while the piano player goes on a bathroom break, even if the trumpet player never played piano and only knows chopsticks.

I rather thought that was the point. Spike is a hero now. He's in the know. Where as before he gave insight into personal matters--"Death is your art"--now he has opened his eyes to the world around him. His insight is no longer restricted to just the people he cares for, who he's obsessed with. I think it fits perfectly with his entrance where he's shown being a detective.

Spike has always been chaos, the jester, the rebel, the symbol of free will--but he's more than even that.

It's why Whedon calls him the most evolved character. He's still evolving now.

Didn't mean to post that comment. Stupid work computer.

Came up with the explanation before posted it. (ie. Restless - Spike as Watcher, and the groundwork being laid for him providing useful information, often more useful than Giles. Plus he is always find artifacts - very linked to artifacts. So yes that works. But...he's not the sort to drone on for two issues with lengthy monologues of exposition.
Normally Spike's like - blah, blah, blah, get to the point already. Not sure I want Spike to become Giles.)

I think there's a valid difference of opinion over whether the comic has deliberately portrayed a world askew in the sense you mean it, or whether the plotting and character motivation has simply been sloppy.

Oh, I agree! But BGF started by saying he thought these features were deliberate, which rules out 'simply sloppy'.

Just to clarify, then, since you directly referenced what I said: you can do something deliberately and sloppily. :)

Ah yes. James Joyce's over-rated masterpiece Ulysess comes to mind.
As does...Lost's final season for that matter.

I haven't seen the most recent issues - haven't been getting to Forbidden Planet very often of recent months.

Fan Poll on Buffy Issue 36 - now that everyone's read and reviewed the thing

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject

no subject