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In my consumption of various romance novels, have discovered a few things.
1. Historical romance novels, much like supernatural Buffy/Spike fanfic, work better than contemporary romances novels or everybody's human fanfic. The reasons for this are: 1) the historicals/supernatural can get away with certain types of sexual gender power plays that come across as offensive and decidedly sexist in contemporary/everybody's human fic, 2) there's more plot in historical, and more description, 3) the story is less cliche. and 4) the heroines aren't as wimpy, whiny, skinny, perfect or young. Also, oddly historicals and supernatural fanfic tends to be a bit more subversive of traditional gender tropes than contemporary and everybody's human. (I know, you'd expect the exact opposite.)
The other thing? The better writers, much like the better fanfic writers...build-up to the big moments better. The last book I tried to read? Bachelor Undone? Summarized the plot and pretty much everything, and wrote a 100 pages of ludicrious sex scenes, some that made my eyes roll. The author clearly doesn't know much about male or female anatomy.
2. Rosemary Rodgers, who was once known along with Kathleen Woodliss for the "bodice ripper" romance novel where the heroine is often raped, many times by various sorts, has oddly in her later novels not only commented on what she did in the earlier ones, but jumped completely and utterly away from it.
Example conversation from her most recent novel "Scondrel's Honor" written in 2010:
Emma was a virgin before becoming my lover," he grudgingly confessed.
"You did not -"
"Force her? No," he snapped. "But in her mind I did seduce her. It appeased her conscience to tell herself that I took advantage of her innocence."
"And now?"
Dimitri shifted uneasily. What did the man want from him? A confession that his relationship with Emma had gone beyond a short tumble to ease his lust? That he needed her to be more than merely a reluctant lover?
"Now I wish her to accept her place in my bed because that is where she desires to be and not because I have lured her there," he muttered.
Don't remember that ever popping up in a Rosemary Rodgers novel before. Also this one has a plot, a headstrong and tough heroine who decidedly does not wish to be saved or give up her independence. It takes place in Russia and England directly after the Napoleon War. The heroine is hunting for her sixteen year old sister who ran off with two noblemen who promised the girl a life on the stage (when in reality they were planning white slavery - we don't follow the sister or see her life). The heroine is probably in her 20s or 30s (we aren't told, just aging spinster) and runs a coaching inn - after their parents have died. She journey's to St. Petersburg to seek the aid of a distant relative, who in turn sets her up with the hero - a dashing theif and the leader of the Russian underworld, who has his own score to settle with the men who kidnapped her sister. The book like all the others that I've read deals with the gender power imbalance. But Rodgers attacks it headon. At one point the heroine tells the hero - that as long as society does not protect women with their laws, or support them, they will be at the mercy of men. The heroine is a tiny woman = they always are in Rodgers books (I'm guessing Rodgers is tiny?). And at another point, the heroine thinks to herself - while it would be wonderful to let herself be seduced by the hero...she has to go back to lonely nights, that he will undoubtedly weary of her eventually and move on to someone else, leaving her ruined and alone. If she gives up her independence to him...financial and otherwise, she'll be worse off than she is now or when she started.
If you read some of Rodgers back history...the story has a ring of disturbing truth.
Rodgers was born in 1931 in Ceylon, Sri Lanka to Dutch-Portugese Settlers, and wealthy, sheltered. Then she married a football star who did not treat her at all well. They separated.
In the 1960s, she moved to St. Louis, Missouri and met and married an African-American Man, and moved to California. In 1969 - her teenage daughter found a manuscript that she'd rewritten 24 times since the age of 9. This was Sweet Savage Love - which her daughter got her to publish. Her marriage fell apart, and she supported herself and her four children all alone on a typist salary. Later she married a poet, that last four years. Now she's divorced and single in Conneticut and still writing and publishing at the age of 74/75.
Rosemary Jansz was born in 1932 in Ceylon, now Sri Lanka. Her parents, Cyril and Barbara Jansz, were Dutch-Portuguese settlers who owned several private schools and were extremely wealthy. Rogers lived among many servants and was sheltered from much of the outside world. She began writing at age eight, and throughout her teens penned many romantic epics in the style of her favorite writers, Sir Walter Scott, Alexandre Dumas, père, and Rafael Sabatini.
After spending three years at the University of Ceylon, Rogers became a reporter, and soon married Summa Navaratnam, a Ceylonese rugby player and track star (who played for Ceylon against the 1950 British Lions and who was known as "the fastest man in Asia") Disappointed with her husband, Rogers moved with her two daughters to London in 1960.
In Europe, she met Leroy Rogers, an African-American from the United States, they married in his home town, St. Louis, Missouri and she moved her family to California, where they had two sons. The second marriage ended after eight years, and Rogers was left to support herself and four children on her salary as a typist for the Solano County Parks Department. The following year, in 1969, her parents came to live with Rogers.
Her third marriage, in September 1984, was to poet Christopher Kadison, 20 years her junior. It was not a marriage made in heaven and they soon began to live apart.
The four children of Rogers have grown and they have become independent. Rogers is single and makes her home in Connecticut, where she continues to write.
I'm guessing part of this is due to the times, and our collective tolerance for "rapemance" being somewhat "dwindled". And part due to Rodgers own experiences.
Lastly? I've noticed that there an awful lot of badly written books published on Amazon, books. The author's mistakes? Too much telling, no showing - I mean, seriously, you don't summarized the ENTIRE plot. We do not need to know everything the characters are thinking each time they have sex, before and after they have sex, nor do we need to see EVERY sex scene....it's a bit like action/suspense novels - where you have to see EVERY fight scene and see what the characters think. If the scene does not further the characters and/or plot? Kill it! Dialogue is important - good banter! Buildup to the fight or sex scene, don't just skip ahead. Also, it helps if you show us why we should care about a character - not tell us.
Say what you will about Woodlwiss and Rodgers...at least they do not make all the mistakes listed above and can write good dialogue or passable dialogue. Same goes for Helen Fielding who wrote Bridget Jones - good writer.
1. Historical romance novels, much like supernatural Buffy/Spike fanfic, work better than contemporary romances novels or everybody's human fanfic. The reasons for this are: 1) the historicals/supernatural can get away with certain types of sexual gender power plays that come across as offensive and decidedly sexist in contemporary/everybody's human fic, 2) there's more plot in historical, and more description, 3) the story is less cliche. and 4) the heroines aren't as wimpy, whiny, skinny, perfect or young. Also, oddly historicals and supernatural fanfic tends to be a bit more subversive of traditional gender tropes than contemporary and everybody's human. (I know, you'd expect the exact opposite.)
The other thing? The better writers, much like the better fanfic writers...build-up to the big moments better. The last book I tried to read? Bachelor Undone? Summarized the plot and pretty much everything, and wrote a 100 pages of ludicrious sex scenes, some that made my eyes roll. The author clearly doesn't know much about male or female anatomy.
2. Rosemary Rodgers, who was once known along with Kathleen Woodliss for the "bodice ripper" romance novel where the heroine is often raped, many times by various sorts, has oddly in her later novels not only commented on what she did in the earlier ones, but jumped completely and utterly away from it.
Example conversation from her most recent novel "Scondrel's Honor" written in 2010:
Emma was a virgin before becoming my lover," he grudgingly confessed.
"You did not -"
"Force her? No," he snapped. "But in her mind I did seduce her. It appeased her conscience to tell herself that I took advantage of her innocence."
"And now?"
Dimitri shifted uneasily. What did the man want from him? A confession that his relationship with Emma had gone beyond a short tumble to ease his lust? That he needed her to be more than merely a reluctant lover?
"Now I wish her to accept her place in my bed because that is where she desires to be and not because I have lured her there," he muttered.
Don't remember that ever popping up in a Rosemary Rodgers novel before. Also this one has a plot, a headstrong and tough heroine who decidedly does not wish to be saved or give up her independence. It takes place in Russia and England directly after the Napoleon War. The heroine is hunting for her sixteen year old sister who ran off with two noblemen who promised the girl a life on the stage (when in reality they were planning white slavery - we don't follow the sister or see her life). The heroine is probably in her 20s or 30s (we aren't told, just aging spinster) and runs a coaching inn - after their parents have died. She journey's to St. Petersburg to seek the aid of a distant relative, who in turn sets her up with the hero - a dashing theif and the leader of the Russian underworld, who has his own score to settle with the men who kidnapped her sister. The book like all the others that I've read deals with the gender power imbalance. But Rodgers attacks it headon. At one point the heroine tells the hero - that as long as society does not protect women with their laws, or support them, they will be at the mercy of men. The heroine is a tiny woman = they always are in Rodgers books (I'm guessing Rodgers is tiny?). And at another point, the heroine thinks to herself - while it would be wonderful to let herself be seduced by the hero...she has to go back to lonely nights, that he will undoubtedly weary of her eventually and move on to someone else, leaving her ruined and alone. If she gives up her independence to him...financial and otherwise, she'll be worse off than she is now or when she started.
If you read some of Rodgers back history...the story has a ring of disturbing truth.
Rodgers was born in 1931 in Ceylon, Sri Lanka to Dutch-Portugese Settlers, and wealthy, sheltered. Then she married a football star who did not treat her at all well. They separated.
In the 1960s, she moved to St. Louis, Missouri and met and married an African-American Man, and moved to California. In 1969 - her teenage daughter found a manuscript that she'd rewritten 24 times since the age of 9. This was Sweet Savage Love - which her daughter got her to publish. Her marriage fell apart, and she supported herself and her four children all alone on a typist salary. Later she married a poet, that last four years. Now she's divorced and single in Conneticut and still writing and publishing at the age of 74/75.
Rosemary Jansz was born in 1932 in Ceylon, now Sri Lanka. Her parents, Cyril and Barbara Jansz, were Dutch-Portuguese settlers who owned several private schools and were extremely wealthy. Rogers lived among many servants and was sheltered from much of the outside world. She began writing at age eight, and throughout her teens penned many romantic epics in the style of her favorite writers, Sir Walter Scott, Alexandre Dumas, père, and Rafael Sabatini.
After spending three years at the University of Ceylon, Rogers became a reporter, and soon married Summa Navaratnam, a Ceylonese rugby player and track star (who played for Ceylon against the 1950 British Lions and who was known as "the fastest man in Asia") Disappointed with her husband, Rogers moved with her two daughters to London in 1960.
In Europe, she met Leroy Rogers, an African-American from the United States, they married in his home town, St. Louis, Missouri and she moved her family to California, where they had two sons. The second marriage ended after eight years, and Rogers was left to support herself and four children on her salary as a typist for the Solano County Parks Department. The following year, in 1969, her parents came to live with Rogers.
Her third marriage, in September 1984, was to poet Christopher Kadison, 20 years her junior. It was not a marriage made in heaven and they soon began to live apart.
The four children of Rogers have grown and they have become independent. Rogers is single and makes her home in Connecticut, where she continues to write.
I'm guessing part of this is due to the times, and our collective tolerance for "rapemance" being somewhat "dwindled". And part due to Rodgers own experiences.
Lastly? I've noticed that there an awful lot of badly written books published on Amazon, books. The author's mistakes? Too much telling, no showing - I mean, seriously, you don't summarized the ENTIRE plot. We do not need to know everything the characters are thinking each time they have sex, before and after they have sex, nor do we need to see EVERY sex scene....it's a bit like action/suspense novels - where you have to see EVERY fight scene and see what the characters think. If the scene does not further the characters and/or plot? Kill it! Dialogue is important - good banter! Buildup to the fight or sex scene, don't just skip ahead. Also, it helps if you show us why we should care about a character - not tell us.
Say what you will about Woodlwiss and Rodgers...at least they do not make all the mistakes listed above and can write good dialogue or passable dialogue. Same goes for Helen Fielding who wrote Bridget Jones - good writer.
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Very true.
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She was rather big in the 1970s. Wrote a lot of "Westerns" - Sweet Savage Love ( a presumed outlaw seduces the heroine and kidnaps her) and The Wildest Heart were both Westerns. Rodgers often wrote historical Western romance novels.
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The scene should move the action, and at the same time further the characters, it should equally involve the reader.
Rodgers sex scenes are rather understated in comparison to erotica which is graphic. So there's a range. I think if you are uncomfortable? It's best to avoid "erotica" or "graphic" and go with the less is more approach.
Examples in fanfic writers?
rahriah - who did Barb's Buffy/Spike verse series?
Such as A Raising in the Sun, The Lesser of Two Evils? Tends to write understated or less is more.
Her sex scenes fall somewhere between Rosemary Rodgers and Georgette Heyer. Dialogue is used, and
innuendo.
herself_nyc is more graphic, yet realistic. She goes with physicality. Her sex scenes are less "romantic" than rahriah's and dip towards erotic, yet have the definite feel of realism. Examples? Spike and the Ambiguities. She also does a lot of "BSDM" sex or "anal" sex...so more risque and anais nin. Except her sex scenes always further plot and always further character. She also is willing to make them "gross" - see Where they have to take you in.
Nautibitz - is more humorous, also uses lots of dialogue, lots of risque sex, very erotic, and very graphic. (Some of her sex scenes are laughably impossible or require someone with quite a bit of flexibility....) They don't always further character or plot, and are purely erotica. She does Everybody's Human better than most.
My advice? Go with what you feel comfortable with...and know. The trick is building up to it. Regardless of how it is written, if the build-up is bad or it comes out of nowhere...it won't work.
Rahriah in her fanfic Raising in the Sun or The Lesser of Two Evils - builds up to it, very gradually, and the pay-off works. She leaves most of it to the imagination.