shadowkat | Beauty and the Beasts and Mark Watches Redux

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Beauty and the Beasts and Mark Watches Redux

Thanks for the funnies last night, folks. Laughter truly is the best medicine.
Much cheerier mood today. And while work is amusing me, I can't really discuss it online that much. [Except to say - write your congressman and tell him/her not to pass the House Bill that does away with federal funding for mass transit. Unless you want to see me poverty stricken and gloomy for the rest of my working life? They take tax revenues from fossile fuels and gas and supply toward public transportation - which saves the environment and helps with global warming. Okay end of PSA. ]

I know I keep saying I'm not going to read Mark Watches Buffy, but I'm weak and I find weirdly entertaining. Also at different points, I feel compelled to chat about it - I have no clue why. I find some of his comments bewildering.
Other's completely agree with. And I can't comment directly on his posts - because I'd spoil everyone. Too much work to avoid it. And I'm lazy.

Today's "Mark Watches Buffy" post is on the S3 episode "Beauty and The Beasts" - which I realized upon re-watching several years back was in reality all about the Buffy/Angel relationship and Domestic Violence (not misogyny).

Once I'd gotten past my emotional attachment to the Buffy/Angel relationship and seen the entire series, both series actually, I realized - whoa, her relationship with Angel was abusive. Both Oz/Willow and Pete/Debbie are set up as metaphors for Buffy/Angel or variations. With Scott, the non-aggressive male, being the one she's actually dating...albeit awkwardly, the fairly normal non-abusive one. Xander/Cordy are another variation on abusive relationships - which will be revisited later with Anya/Xander. The whole episode examines the complexity of the domestic violence/abusive relationship, which is revisited in S6 - "Dead Things" with Willow/Tara and Katrina/Warren the abusive relationships, Xander/Anya being the awkward yet "seemingly" good relationship or one people think they want to aspire to - and the relationship being examined through each? Buffy/Spike, just as Buffy/Angel was examined through each relationship in Beauty and the Beasts. Except in S6 they do something rather interesting, they demonstrate how "gender" has zip to do with it. So instead of doing the mislead "misogyny", it's really about power dynamics in relationship's. In S6 Dead Things? Willow has the monster inside her, power. While in S3 Beauty and the Beasts - Oz had the monster inside of him. In S6 - Buffy is beating Spike to a pulp, while in S3 Buffy fears Angel will beat her up in his rage. In S6 we see Warren/Katrina are the Pete/Debbie relationship. Except they are an older and in some respects more horrific version.

So it's hard for me to relate to Mark's take, because I can't see Beauty and the Beasts without seeing Dead Things in the back of my mind.

This statement bewilders me.

There was an episode of a popular television that showed us the perils of domestic violence, a metaphor for alcoholism, and made parallels to a violent system of misogyny that exists in our culture. IN 1998.

Sigh. Seriously, dude, did you not watch anything but the X-Files in the 1990s? And if so, you are validating my opinion that there wasn't much ground-breaking or memorable about that series. You'd have been better off watching Buffy, The West Wing, NYPD Blue, and LA Law. Heck even Dawson's Creek did an episode like that. Not to mention quite a few other tv shows and movies.
And in the 1970s, no less. I know, shocking! This boy makes me feel very old.
Does he make anyone else feel old?

Actually, vampires are used often as a metaphor for marginalized groups, and it’s one of my least favorite things? Because, like, I can’t count how many times vampirism was a metaphor for homosexuality, and that analogy doesn’t work because I don’t suck the life out of other people. I think there’s something inherently dangerous about vampires that doesn’t exist for people who are gay or queer.

So very true. Yes, we are looking at you "True Blood" and Anne Rice. I'm sorry but vampires or demons representing disenfranchized minorities doesn't work.
Personally, I think it would work better if they represented the white ruling class - which is what Whedon started out with in the Buffy and Angel series, then took a weird left turn around Alberqueue in the latter seasons of both series, and they began to represent the outsider or disenfranchised minority.
Which was sort of worse in a way, muddling the metaphor - never a good idea.

I mean, I remember when I first got online in the 90s (I AM SO F***CKING OLD WTF)

Yet clearly too young to know there wasn't an online until the 1990s unless you were a major computer geek and even then..

Note - the internet didn't really take off until the LATE 1990s..so not much of an online. Oh there was "something" there, but it was mostly Lexis/Nexus, ACIN News websites, email listserves, aol chat rooms, and email and very rudimentary. Crashed all the time. This is before internet explorer popped up or ...what was the predecessor to internet explorer, I forget, we had it at evil library company, drove me nuts. So discussion boards, im chat, etc didn't really pop up until 1995/1996. Also this poor boy never had to deal with MS DOS or mircofiche. He makes me feel relatively acient. I finally understand how my grandparents felt when we discussed cars, telephones and indoor plumbing.

Gotta go and get my walk in. Bye.

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Good thoughts on BatB vs. Dead Things -- and Pete/Debbie vs. Warren/Katrina. The way Oz and Willow mirror each other w.r.t. the hidden power, which they keep very deeply covered and try to control by denying it entirely/caging it, is really interesting.

I actually like the shifting of the metaphors, because I think it mirrors the problems with our own life: the categories we try to apply to people never hold forever. I think AtS' black-gang-vs-Angel-and-other-demons episode was pretty unsuccessful, but Xander's attack on Spike in Entropy works as a metaphor not so much because it paints Xander as a racist, but because it demonstrates Xander's willingness to box Spike into a category which is convenient for Xander -- he's a cad, so I can treat him however I like (this time). Which I think works, even if Spike is a former member of the dominant class.

Beauty and the Beasts and Dead Things back to back are fairly interesting. One's the teen view of abusive relationships...the other the adult - or where it can lead, if unchecked. Also Willow's abusive behavior toward Tara and her caged power is in some respects less obvious than Oz's, but more insidious and disturbing. Just as Spike's abusive behavior towards Buffy falls under the radar...you don't quite notice it, except in the balcony scene - where he seduces her but makes her feel dirty and like crap at the same time. It's a hot scene, but also a disturbing one. Her response...later, is to beat him.
If you compare to Beauty and the Beasts - it is similar, but the metaphor is twisted in that you see it through another lense, that of the abuser. Debbie manipulates Peter, makes him feel like crap, that he has to be someone else.
Willow struggles with OZ. Buffy struggles with Angel. The need to be powerful, and how they feel less than - causes them to strike out. In Dead Things, Spike manipulates Buffy, Willow...wants Tara back and represses and denies her magic - she buys Tara's lie - and prior like Warren later does with Katrina, she manipulates Tara with magic in All the Way to keep her with her. There's a nice parallel structure at work. Which you can't quite appreciate if you are emotionally invested in the characters or relationships.

On the shifting metaphors? While I agree that they mirror issues with our own life and make things less black and white. They'd work better if the series was populated with more minority characters who weren't killed off or seen here and there. Unfortunately, the inability to hire minorities in lead roles caused these metaphors to become somewhat offensive. A way to counter-act that would have been to make Buffy not a petite blond, but a black woman. And/or Xander black. Veronica Mars did a better job. But Buffy was also a 1990s/early 00's series...and suffers from that historically racist television climate.

Word word.

In the Willow stories, self-restraint is emphasized. Oz locks himself up. Willow locks her magic up. But it’s a very artificial self-restraint. And it’s doomed to failure. The cage can’t keep Oz closed. Willow can’t hold down her emotions. And they are unwilling to talk: Oz keeps himself caged for Willow, Willow keeps herself caged for Tara. It’s understood, not stated explicitly. In the Buffy stories, one partner restrains the other. Buffy puts Angel in chains, which he breaks free of. Spike manipulates Buffy into staying with him, which she responds to—as you say—by punching him.

That is a great point. You know—I had never thought about it this way before, but Willow is paralleling Warren even in this episode. Warren decides that in order to be with Katrina, he has to become all-powerful. Willow decides that in order to win Tara back, she has to reject her power entirely. We know where Tara got the idea that power = evil –- from her father. She learned that was a lie, but she seems to expect it of Willow. Or, you know: she sees Willow’s power, Willow’s magic, as the real evil, and as long as Willow doesn't have power, she won't be evil anymore. And in the process she both punishes Willow for doing magic when the magic is not a problem – is it really bad for Willow to use magic to do party decorations? is it fair for her to say that Willow's power "frightens her" in Tough Love? – and forgives Willow too easily for her controlling and abuse with magic. Tara is not really correct about Willow: Willow should access that power, she just needs to learn to do so responsibly.

In season seven, after she lets go of Tara, she can access her power again, but the problem is that she is with Kennedy, who encourages her too much to use her power. Perhaps just as Buffy goes too far in trying not to restrain Spike. Or, you know. Willow should use her power, and Buffy is mostly right to let Spike use his. But Kennedy encourages Willow a bit too much, and Buffy is a bit negligent: she doesn't try very hard to make sure Spike isn't still triggerable by the First. The balance is nearly impossible to strike.

The metaphors surrounding Buffy and her lovers restraining each other (often with force) and Willow and her lovers restraining themselves fits with Buffy as ‘hand’ (physical/external) and Willow as the ‘spirit’ (spiritual/internal).

On the shifting metaphors? While I agree that they mirror issues with our own life and make things less black and white. They'd work better if the series was populated with more minority characters who weren't killed off or seen here and there. Unfortunately, the inability to hire minorities in lead roles caused these metaphors to become somewhat offensive. A way to counter-act that would have been to make Buffy not a petite blond, but a black woman. And/or Xander black. Veronica Mars did a better job. But Buffy was also a 1990s/early 00's series...and suffers from that historically racist television climate.

Ohhh, yes, I agree with that, definitely.

Yes, as critical as I am about Whedon, I do realize that he's a product of his environment and really doesn't have that much control. Fans assume just because Whedon had creative control that extended to casting choices, contracts with cast, etc. But it didn't. He wanted for example Bianca Lawson who portrayed Kendra to be Buffy, but the network either shot him down wanting a Kristie Swanson type or Lawson was otherwise engaged. Buffy when it was originally shot in 1996/1997 was not a hot property. People in the biz made fun of it. They were surprised it didn't get canceled. I remember worrying about it getting canceled every year it was on. I think the only year they felt safe was S3-4.

So Whedon really isn't the racist jerk people think he is. The institution in which he works, however, is. Or Fox. Same deal with the comics...how much control Whedon has...is negotiable. I don't believe for a minute he has as much control as people think. I know enough about that industry - to know his hands are tied in some of the same ways they were for Buffy. It's a white male dictated industry - which markets itself to a young white male audience. It's gotten a whole lot better...but that has not changed. (shrugs)

It's what Mark Watches is both aware and unaware of...the historical context.
He hasn't watched enough series from the 1990s or before that to understand what was happening in Buffy. The West Wing - was slamned by the NCAA for it's token racial casting choices. Judd Apatow states on the DVD to The TV Set that he was told to hire either one woman or one minority character for Freaks and Geeks to fulfill a quota.

True Blood to be fair makes worse mistakes in this regard than Buffy ever did. Alan Ball makes Whedon look like a Saint in comparison and a genius. Buffy was a lot better than True Blood - which is just too silly to be taken seriously most of the time. To date it's killed off most of its minority characters, and its main metaphor for vampires is as the disenfranchised minority or other. In True Blood - the vampires really are a metaphor for homosexuality and disenfranchized minorities. They even do a joke about civil rights that is beyond offensive. I wanted to kick Alan Ball when I saw it.

I'm going to disagree with you on the X-Files, in that I find Scully to be far more feminist than Buffy or... unfortunately, many of the female characters today. (I actually think in many shows, depiction of female characters has regressed).

Scully was competent. She rarely, if ever 'got saved'. 99% of the time Scully saved herself and Mulder would show up later/afterward, occasionally giving a shoulder to cry on (because she was human. She did the same thing for him), but Mulder was never 'her savior' (except in the first movie. On the show, it didn't happen like that).

What I love about Scully in a way that I feel like I never got with Buffy (but we do in many ways with Olivia Dunham), was that they celebrated her competence. She was good at stuff because she worked at it. She was accomplished.

Scully was unapologetically smart. They didn't try to cutesy her up. She dressed professionally, as was appropriate to her job, not in some unrealistically sexy way.

And while Mulder was there she was pretty much pegged as being the anti-alien position (which was ostensibly wrong a lot of the time... but not really, as often it really wasn't aliens) she was also the one who was the 'believer' when it came to some of the more supernatural things, in which case Mulder was the cynic, and she was usually right in those cases.

She also carried episodes all on her own quite often. If Mulder was MIA or it wasn't a Mulder-episode but a Scully-episode, there wasn't a vacuum. She functioned independently (hence the excessive use of cellphones.) If Mulder was taken out of commission, she wasn't lacking but could kick ass as far, as both investigator and general kick-assedness.

And they did it without the "petite girl has improbable superpowers" schtick. Scully was a small woman. She had believable FBI training in self-defense, but she didn't have superhuman strength... which is why she carried a gun which she was quite competent with.

And I think what made me admire/love Scully the most was her ability to confront people in her job, even her superiors. She always did so with authority of her own. She wasn't 'a bitch' and neither was she a pushover. She was, I thought, an aspirational model of women in the workplace.

Yeah, she was thwarted sometimes (because who isn't?) but she could state her position with strength, back-up what she was saying with facts and logic, and she could express herself with gravitas and authority.

So many times now it's reduced to a 'buddy cop' format with the 'sexy girl'... but it's still the guy who rescues the girl most of the time. Scully didn't work like that, and neither did Mulder/Scully. She was actually more likely to rescue him than he was to rescue her. And...he really came to love her for her mind.

She was also blessedly free of Daddy issues (she loved her father and missed him after he died, but ... that's normal.) And while reticent, she wasn't hopelessly damaged emotionally (as is sometimes the case). She existed in the realm of believable -- if aspirational -- woman.

One of my fave Scully vids:

No, no, I agree about Scully.

Should clarify? I'm not stating Scully wasn't a great character or feminist.

Just that the X-Files didn't do anything ground-breaking. ie. If I didn't hate the alien/monster of the week story bits so much, I'd have loved the series. The only part of it I liked was the Scully/Mulder characters and relationship. Everything else? Bleargh. ;-)

(Not a fan of that type of horror. Never was. Have similar issues with Fringe. I hate the horror procedural, and conspiracy stuff, but like Peter/Olivia/Walter/Bell/Nina/Astrid/Lincoln...so I try to ignore the stupid disease/monster of the week. )

So my point? Not that it wasn't a feminist story.
But that it didn't really discuss the issues related in my post above...because it was criminal work-place procedural about paranormal horrors, which is sort of a popular trope that has been done to death. Not an emotional horror serial about growing up.
If all you've seen is the X-Files..you've been living under a safe rock.

Yes, Mark is a little short on historical perspective. Noir was popular on TV in 1950's and it's almost defined by abusive relationships. Radio soaps from long before I was born talked about feminist issues. It's all in books from the 19th century, if you look for it.

With Scott, the non-aggressive male, being the one she's actually dating...albeit awkwardly, the fairly normal non-abusive one.

One thing that made me mad on BTVS, rather being mildly unhappy, was the off-hand remark in one of the later seasons that Scott was gay. Like Joss's daddy issues, his virtual insistence that on Buffy every hetero relationship was abusive or false on some level, really wore thin. Firefly was a massive improvement on that score. Even the peculiar approach-avoidance relationship between Mal and Inara was a lot healthier than anything on Buffy.

One thing that made me mad on BTVS, rather being mildly unhappy, was the off-hand remark in one of the later seasons that Scott was gay. Like Joss's daddy issues, his virtual insistence that on Buffy every hetero relationship was abusive or false on some level, really wore thin.

Agreed. It's a stereotypical view of homosexuality and heterosexuality that began to grate after a while. What's interesting is homosexual viewers like Mark will comment on their abusive "boy-friends".

That said..to be fair? Larry is depicted as gay and in the closet, and he was an ass, while Scott was nice and in the closet. So there's that at least and that may well have been the intent. (He probably was getting flack for Larry and having no others - decided to throw Scott out there to even the score.)

Mark is a little short on historical perspective.

An understatement, and a hilarious one. Everytime he comes out with one of these statements, "OMG I can't believe they aired this in 1998! And someone was actually discussing this!" I think, dude, seriously were you living under a rock - where the only cultural items sent to you were superhero comic books, Seventh Heaven (which actually handled the topic too - so maybe not that) and the X-Files? Didn't you take any English Lit courses or read any literature? I'm beginning to wonder about the state of our education system - since this guy graduated college.

I think he's said he comes from a relgious fundamentalist background. I read an article a few years ago about how it's actually possible to divorce yourself from mainstream pop culture these days and basically limit kids viewing to Christian books, DVDs, etc such that there are people who really do not share the same pop cultural language at all.

I'd buy that...except prior to watching Buffy, he watched BattleStar Galatica, Fringe, Doctor Who, amongst other series. Also when he was 15? He watched the X-Files - which wasn't exactly Seventh Heaven or The Jerry Falwell Hour or Billy Graham.

Plus...according to Homecoming, he did have an abusive boy friend that he had sex with as a teen. Hardly sheltered. (Unless I read that wrong and that happened in his 20s. But still.)

So...I wondering about these posts.

his virtual insistence that on Buffy every hetero relationship was abusive or false on some level, really wore thin.

This. God, yes, THIS. It became really, really annoying that Joss seemingly cannot view heterosexual relationships in any way but as being imbalanced or abusive on some level. (He also has a way of consistently demonizing male sexuality as being something that subjugates or abuses women.)

I think he got obsessed with subverting and playing around with the B-movie gothic/slasher movie trope from a female perspective. What do women fear?
Oh, I know, sex, and in particular how men view sex...let's do that. I honestly think that's what happened...and stretched the metaphors for it a bit too thin.

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Beauty and the Beasts and Mark Watches Redux

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