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Beauty and the Beasts and Mark Watches Redux
Thanks for the funnies last night, folks. Laughter truly is the best medicine.
Much cheerier mood today. And while work is amusing me, I can't really discuss it online that much. [Except to say - write your congressman and tell him/her not to pass the House Bill that does away with federal funding for mass transit. Unless you want to see me poverty stricken and gloomy for the rest of my working life? They take tax revenues from fossile fuels and gas and supply toward public transportation - which saves the environment and helps with global warming. Okay end of PSA. ]
I know I keep saying I'm not going to read Mark Watches Buffy, but I'm weak and I find weirdly entertaining. Also at different points, I feel compelled to chat about it - I have no clue why. I find some of his comments bewildering.
Other's completely agree with. And I can't comment directly on his posts - because I'd spoil everyone. Too much work to avoid it. And I'm lazy.
Today's "Mark Watches Buffy" post is on the S3 episode "Beauty and The Beasts" - which I realized upon re-watching several years back was in reality all about the Buffy/Angel relationship and Domestic Violence (not misogyny).
Once I'd gotten past my emotional attachment to the Buffy/Angel relationship and seen the entire series, both series actually, I realized - whoa, her relationship with Angel was abusive. Both Oz/Willow and Pete/Debbie are set up as metaphors for Buffy/Angel or variations. With Scott, the non-aggressive male, being the one she's actually dating...albeit awkwardly, the fairly normal non-abusive one. Xander/Cordy are another variation on abusive relationships - which will be revisited later with Anya/Xander. The whole episode examines the complexity of the domestic violence/abusive relationship, which is revisited in S6 - "Dead Things" with Willow/Tara and Katrina/Warren the abusive relationships, Xander/Anya being the awkward yet "seemingly" good relationship or one people think they want to aspire to - and the relationship being examined through each? Buffy/Spike, just as Buffy/Angel was examined through each relationship in Beauty and the Beasts. Except in S6 they do something rather interesting, they demonstrate how "gender" has zip to do with it. So instead of doing the mislead "misogyny", it's really about power dynamics in relationship's. In S6 Dead Things? Willow has the monster inside her, power. While in S3 Beauty and the Beasts - Oz had the monster inside of him. In S6 - Buffy is beating Spike to a pulp, while in S3 Buffy fears Angel will beat her up in his rage. In S6 we see Warren/Katrina are the Pete/Debbie relationship. Except they are an older and in some respects more horrific version.
So it's hard for me to relate to Mark's take, because I can't see Beauty and the Beasts without seeing Dead Things in the back of my mind.
This statement bewilders me.
There was an episode of a popular television that showed us the perils of domestic violence, a metaphor for alcoholism, and made parallels to a violent system of misogyny that exists in our culture. IN 1998.
Sigh. Seriously, dude, did you not watch anything but the X-Files in the 1990s? And if so, you are validating my opinion that there wasn't much ground-breaking or memorable about that series. You'd have been better off watching Buffy, The West Wing, NYPD Blue, and LA Law. Heck even Dawson's Creek did an episode like that. Not to mention quite a few other tv shows and movies.
And in the 1970s, no less. I know, shocking! This boy makes me feel very old.
Does he make anyone else feel old?
Actually, vampires are used often as a metaphor for marginalized groups, and it’s one of my least favorite things? Because, like, I can’t count how many times vampirism was a metaphor for homosexuality, and that analogy doesn’t work because I don’t suck the life out of other people. I think there’s something inherently dangerous about vampires that doesn’t exist for people who are gay or queer.
So very true. Yes, we are looking at you "True Blood" and Anne Rice. I'm sorry but vampires or demons representing disenfranchized minorities doesn't work.
Personally, I think it would work better if they represented the white ruling class - which is what Whedon started out with in the Buffy and Angel series, then took a weird left turn around Alberqueue in the latter seasons of both series, and they began to represent the outsider or disenfranchised minority.
Which was sort of worse in a way, muddling the metaphor - never a good idea.
I mean, I remember when I first got online in the 90s (I AM SO F***CKING OLD WTF)
Yet clearly too young to know there wasn't an online until the 1990s unless you were a major computer geek and even then..
Note - the internet didn't really take off until the LATE 1990s..so not much of an online. Oh there was "something" there, but it was mostly Lexis/Nexus, ACIN News websites, email listserves, aol chat rooms, and email and very rudimentary. Crashed all the time. This is before internet explorer popped up or ...what was the predecessor to internet explorer, I forget, we had it at evil library company, drove me nuts. So discussion boards, im chat, etc didn't really pop up until 1995/1996. Also this poor boy never had to deal with MS DOS or mircofiche. He makes me feel relatively acient. I finally understand how my grandparents felt when we discussed cars, telephones and indoor plumbing.
Gotta go and get my walk in. Bye.
Much cheerier mood today. And while work is amusing me, I can't really discuss it online that much. [Except to say - write your congressman and tell him/her not to pass the House Bill that does away with federal funding for mass transit. Unless you want to see me poverty stricken and gloomy for the rest of my working life? They take tax revenues from fossile fuels and gas and supply toward public transportation - which saves the environment and helps with global warming. Okay end of PSA. ]
I know I keep saying I'm not going to read Mark Watches Buffy, but I'm weak and I find weirdly entertaining. Also at different points, I feel compelled to chat about it - I have no clue why. I find some of his comments bewildering.
Other's completely agree with. And I can't comment directly on his posts - because I'd spoil everyone. Too much work to avoid it. And I'm lazy.
Today's "Mark Watches Buffy" post is on the S3 episode "Beauty and The Beasts" - which I realized upon re-watching several years back was in reality all about the Buffy/Angel relationship and Domestic Violence (not misogyny).
Once I'd gotten past my emotional attachment to the Buffy/Angel relationship and seen the entire series, both series actually, I realized - whoa, her relationship with Angel was abusive. Both Oz/Willow and Pete/Debbie are set up as metaphors for Buffy/Angel or variations. With Scott, the non-aggressive male, being the one she's actually dating...albeit awkwardly, the fairly normal non-abusive one. Xander/Cordy are another variation on abusive relationships - which will be revisited later with Anya/Xander. The whole episode examines the complexity of the domestic violence/abusive relationship, which is revisited in S6 - "Dead Things" with Willow/Tara and Katrina/Warren the abusive relationships, Xander/Anya being the awkward yet "seemingly" good relationship or one people think they want to aspire to - and the relationship being examined through each? Buffy/Spike, just as Buffy/Angel was examined through each relationship in Beauty and the Beasts. Except in S6 they do something rather interesting, they demonstrate how "gender" has zip to do with it. So instead of doing the mislead "misogyny", it's really about power dynamics in relationship's. In S6 Dead Things? Willow has the monster inside her, power. While in S3 Beauty and the Beasts - Oz had the monster inside of him. In S6 - Buffy is beating Spike to a pulp, while in S3 Buffy fears Angel will beat her up in his rage. In S6 we see Warren/Katrina are the Pete/Debbie relationship. Except they are an older and in some respects more horrific version.
So it's hard for me to relate to Mark's take, because I can't see Beauty and the Beasts without seeing Dead Things in the back of my mind.
This statement bewilders me.
There was an episode of a popular television that showed us the perils of domestic violence, a metaphor for alcoholism, and made parallels to a violent system of misogyny that exists in our culture. IN 1998.
Sigh. Seriously, dude, did you not watch anything but the X-Files in the 1990s? And if so, you are validating my opinion that there wasn't much ground-breaking or memorable about that series. You'd have been better off watching Buffy, The West Wing, NYPD Blue, and LA Law. Heck even Dawson's Creek did an episode like that. Not to mention quite a few other tv shows and movies.
And in the 1970s, no less. I know, shocking! This boy makes me feel very old.
Does he make anyone else feel old?
Actually, vampires are used often as a metaphor for marginalized groups, and it’s one of my least favorite things? Because, like, I can’t count how many times vampirism was a metaphor for homosexuality, and that analogy doesn’t work because I don’t suck the life out of other people. I think there’s something inherently dangerous about vampires that doesn’t exist for people who are gay or queer.
So very true. Yes, we are looking at you "True Blood" and Anne Rice. I'm sorry but vampires or demons representing disenfranchized minorities doesn't work.
Personally, I think it would work better if they represented the white ruling class - which is what Whedon started out with in the Buffy and Angel series, then took a weird left turn around Alberqueue in the latter seasons of both series, and they began to represent the outsider or disenfranchised minority.
Which was sort of worse in a way, muddling the metaphor - never a good idea.
I mean, I remember when I first got online in the 90s (I AM SO F***CKING OLD WTF)
Yet clearly too young to know there wasn't an online until the 1990s unless you were a major computer geek and even then..
Note - the internet didn't really take off until the LATE 1990s..so not much of an online. Oh there was "something" there, but it was mostly Lexis/Nexus, ACIN News websites, email listserves, aol chat rooms, and email and very rudimentary. Crashed all the time. This is before internet explorer popped up or ...what was the predecessor to internet explorer, I forget, we had it at evil library company, drove me nuts. So discussion boards, im chat, etc didn't really pop up until 1995/1996. Also this poor boy never had to deal with MS DOS or mircofiche. He makes me feel relatively acient. I finally understand how my grandparents felt when we discussed cars, telephones and indoor plumbing.
Gotta go and get my walk in. Bye.
no subject
Scully was competent. She rarely, if ever 'got saved'. 99% of the time Scully saved herself and Mulder would show up later/afterward, occasionally giving a shoulder to cry on (because she was human. She did the same thing for him), but Mulder was never 'her savior' (except in the first movie. On the show, it didn't happen like that).
What I love about Scully in a way that I feel like I never got with Buffy (but we do in many ways with Olivia Dunham), was that they celebrated her competence. She was good at stuff because she worked at it. She was accomplished.
Scully was unapologetically smart. They didn't try to cutesy her up. She dressed professionally, as was appropriate to her job, not in some unrealistically sexy way.
And while Mulder was there she was pretty much pegged as being the anti-alien position (which was ostensibly wrong a lot of the time... but not really, as often it really wasn't aliens) she was also the one who was the 'believer' when it came to some of the more supernatural things, in which case Mulder was the cynic, and she was usually right in those cases.
She also carried episodes all on her own quite often. If Mulder was MIA or it wasn't a Mulder-episode but a Scully-episode, there wasn't a vacuum. She functioned independently (hence the excessive use of cellphones.) If Mulder was taken out of commission, she wasn't lacking but could kick ass as far, as both investigator and general kick-assedness.
And they did it without the "petite girl has improbable superpowers" schtick. Scully was a small woman. She had believable FBI training in self-defense, but she didn't have superhuman strength... which is why she carried a gun which she was quite competent with.
And I think what made me admire/love Scully the most was her ability to confront people in her job, even her superiors. She always did so with authority of her own. She wasn't 'a bitch' and neither was she a pushover. She was, I thought, an aspirational model of women in the workplace.
Yeah, she was thwarted sometimes (because who isn't?) but she could state her position with strength, back-up what she was saying with facts and logic, and she could express herself with gravitas and authority.
So many times now it's reduced to a 'buddy cop' format with the 'sexy girl'... but it's still the guy who rescues the girl most of the time. Scully didn't work like that, and neither did Mulder/Scully. She was actually more likely to rescue him than he was to rescue her. And...he really came to love her for her mind.
She was also blessedly free of Daddy issues (she loved her father and missed him after he died, but ... that's normal.) And while reticent, she wasn't hopelessly damaged emotionally (as is sometimes the case). She existed in the realm of believable -- if aspirational -- woman.
One of my fave Scully vids:
no subject
Should clarify? I'm not stating Scully wasn't a great character or feminist.
Just that the X-Files didn't do anything ground-breaking. ie. If I didn't hate the alien/monster of the week story bits so much, I'd have loved the series. The only part of it I liked was the Scully/Mulder characters and relationship. Everything else? Bleargh. ;-)
(Not a fan of that type of horror. Never was. Have similar issues with Fringe. I hate the horror procedural, and conspiracy stuff, but like Peter/Olivia/Walter/Bell/Nina/Astrid/Lincoln...so I try to ignore the stupid disease/monster of the week. )
So my point? Not that it wasn't a feminist story.
But that it didn't really discuss the issues related in my post above...because it was criminal work-place procedural about paranormal horrors, which is sort of a popular trope that has been done to death. Not an emotional horror serial about growing up.
If all you've seen is the X-Files..you've been living under a safe rock.