Once Upon a Time and Revenge

[shadowkat]

Finished reading crappy novel (NOT the one by Margaret Atwood - this is the 99 cent Kindle one), which turned out to be slightly less crappy than expected. But made me realize I have a craving for a certain story trope or tropes, so if you know of better works of fiction that contain these tropes - please advise. The one I finished was far more interested in the graphic sex scenes and UST between the leads and less in the actual plot and what it is like to not remember anything and be reunited with a family who thought you long dead.

* amensia/memory loss
* back from the dead - being reunited with husband or wife who you thought was long dead
* gothic mystery (more in line with Mary Stewart, less in line with Laurel K. Hamilton - ie non-supernatural gothic. The sort where the heroine or hero suspects the other of dastardly deeds.)

May try Brat Farrar...although not quite the same.

1) Once Upon a Time - plays wonderful games with memory loss and being reunited with people lost and then found. Which is one of the reasons I enjoy it. Although like the book I just finished...still wished it had better execution, so I didn't feel unsatisfied afterwards. It's a bit like craving a chocolate mousse, eating the chocolate mousse and think damn...why do I still feel empty?



* Poor Rumplestilskin - he did the right thing by letting Hook live, but lost Belle anyhow. Although I feel more sorry for Belle - who has lost herself because she idiotically get between Hook and Rumple. Honestly, hon, when you find out the last gal who did so got her heart removed and crushed - it's time to take a long breather from the relationship.

Have a feeling right about now - Rumple is wishing he hadn't listened to Belle and killed Hook or killed him instead of Milla ages ago. That feeling probably isn't going to go away any time soon. Don't get me wrong I'm quite pleased he didn't kill "Hook" - who by the way bears a startling resemblance to the old Sheriff/Huntsman who Emma sort of had a thing for. Actually Emma and Hook have that in common - they both had someone they loved die, when their heart got crushed. But, from Rumple's point of view - life would be a great deal better with Hook not hanging around.

I rather liked Rumple's comments to Emma and family:

* You owe me a favor, Emma, and I've come to collect - we're going to track down my son Baelfire in Manhattan. I'm going and you're coming along to help me.
* And look on the bright side it keeps me from killing Hook. Every day I hang around here the more tempted I get to kill Hook.
* IF anything happens to Belle while I'm away, you know me well enough, to know I mean this when I say it - I'm going to kill all of you!

I'm thinking, eh, not all. Seriously. That's a bit of overkill.

Methinks Gold/Rumple is still a long way from redemption. Actually the series is doing a decent job with its redemption story lines. Both Regina and Rumple state they want to be redeemed, but not because they feel any remorse for hurting anyone - but because they want to get back their loved one's affection. Regina wants Henry, Rumple wants Belle...now Belle is forever gone and we're going back to the original lost boy, Baelfire.

This should be interesting - particularly if I'm right about who Baelfire is. Because if I am, poor Rumplestilskin is in for one hell of a rude awakening as is Hook and Cora/Regina for that matter. At the moment, Rumple's interest in Emma Swan and for that matter Henry is somewhat limited to the curse and well her relationship with Henry reminds him a little of his with Baelfire. Just as Regina's with Henry reminds him of his with Baelfire. But a few things to keep in mind - Rumplestilskin is the reason Emma ended up separated from her parents for 28 years (he created the curse), and he's the reason Regina got a hold of Henry - he arranged for the adoption - so that Emma would return to break the curse. He also may well be indirectly responsible for the actions of the loathsome Pinnochio/August who broke up Henry's family and caused Emma to give up her's and Neal's son for adoption.

To date, Rumple doesn't care - after all it has made it possible for him to go find his son, Baelfire. Baelfire - who remember - deliberately chose to come to our world, which had no magic, to escape the monster his father became and with the hopes of getting his father back - curing him. But his father betrays him and chooses magic and power over him. Also...if I'm right about who this guy is...Baelfire is going to be less than happy with his father.

Speaking of Cora/Regina....nice family reunion. But Regina honey, you're not going to get Henry back by hurting his family or snatching him from them. You'd think she'd learn? After all this is the kid who went searching for his biological mother. So clearly you were doing something wrong to send him off to do that? Also, listening to Mom...hmm, how's that worked out for you so far? Regina much like Rumple is a long way from redemption. Both want it for the wrong reasons. And both are still addicted to power - and have both fallen off the wagon, Rumple when he lost Belle, Regina when she lost Henry.

Shame, Henry and his family know now that Cora framed Regina, but they can't find her to tell her. Not that it matters - Regina has given in to the temptation her mother offers.
Much as Rumple gave in to Cora's temptation - he accepted her truce to locate his missing son. And Regina - gave in - for aid to get Henry back and no longer have to deal with the others.

Not sure what Rumple is expecting in regards to his son...surely not a kid? After all his son escaped to a world without magic and is mortal.

* Doctor Whale is the B storyline or back-story of the week. I rather prefer back-stories of the week or flashbacks of the week to cases or monsters of the week. Far more interesting.
This was a narrative device that we can thank the tv series LOST for and one of the reasons I enjoyed LOST.

We finally find out what Doctor Whale did - apparently Frankenstein's Monster is his brother, who he attempted to bring back to life - only succeeding in bringing back a monster.
Oh - shout out to Gregory Itzin of 24 fame playing the Dad. Great character actor.

And his burgeoning friendship with Ruby the Werewolf aka Red Riding Hood is quite wonderful.
Frankenstein and the Werewolf.

Loved his line: "I wanted my name to go down in history as meaning eternal life, instead it's monster with dead-bolts."

And Ruby's :"When Regina constructed her curse to punish us all by forgetting our pasts, I don't think she anticipated quite how much crap we wanted to actually forget." (Actually I think Regina constructed it punish Snow and Charming, and everyone else just got caught up in it. And she was manipulated in casting it by Rumplestilskin because he just wanted to locate his son and not lose his power/magic in the process. Shout-out to selenake who pointed out that Rumple actually is as dangerous without magic as he was with it - considering how he managed to manipulate everyone in town including Regina for years without it. Hook's a great antagonist for Rumple, just as Cora is for Regina.)

I rather like how this series builds on itself.

I finally caved and bought the first season on DVD via Amazon. I should not be permitted on the internet when I'm at loose ends. I buy stupid things. Sigh. Some people buy clothes or shoes, I buy DVDs, Itune albums, and books. My apartment is cluttered with CDs, DVDs, and books - but has ratty furniture.

Have fallen into the mental doldrums..which means I want to read cotton candy books for the brain, or mindless books that require little thought, have lots of emotion, and I can easily forget afterwards. In short the reading equivalent of Revenge, Once, Vamp Diaries, and General Hospital. Pure Entertainment, no analysis required, and much snarking allowed. Although I still draw the line at sentimentality - me and Nicholas Sparks are unmixy things. I also don't seem to appreciate punnery for some reason or other. Neither do the parents or kidbro - so it may well be genetic. Want melodrama, don't want tepid sentimentality, want subtle dry wit and snark - not puns. In short want chocolate mousse not skittles.



At church, a lovely women gave me a splendid idea regarding New Year's Resolutions. She's not worrying about it until March 1. March 1 is the beginning of her New Year. I'm going with March 9th - that's my birthday, up until then still on the 45th year of my life anyhow.
So, have some time to get my act together.

2. Revenge

Well, we're finally moving forward. While I'm getting tired of the shadowy Initiative storyline...I'm liking the complexity it has provided the Grayson's and the David Clark story.



*Ah, Nolan finally figured out Padme was playing him. I loved his discussion with Emily.
Nolan and Emily are amongst my favorite pairings. He tells Emily that he was right someone is after the program, but he pointed the finger at the wrong CFO. It was not snarky Marco, it was Padme. Emily suggests he play Padme back. So Nolan and Emily ensure the Initiative gets what it wants, much to Victoria Grayson and Aiden's chagrin.

*Aiden and Victoria are both pissed at Emily. Aiden blames her for his sister. Victoria for letting Daniel get a win for the Initiative and losing an ally. Aiden is probably the most dangerous in the short-term, Victoria...I wouldn't worry about, she has bigger problems.

It's hard to care about Aiden. He's so dumb. I mean hello, did you really think the Initiative wasn't going to kill your sister? And how do you know that's a recent vid?
Plus, how exactly is this Emily's fault again? Can we kill him now? Seriously, the boy makes Jack and Declan relative genius' by comparison.

* Speaking of Jack/Declan - thank god for Amanda, and then again maybe not, she arranges a deal with Conrad Grayson to get rid of the bad-boy guys who are plaguing Jack/Declan (portrayed by Michael Trucco of BSG fame) and someone else that I recognize but can't quite place. Unfortunately this means that an old friend has turn himself in. And ...well, Conrad, being Conrad, double-crosses them and makes a side deal with Michael Trucco when he points out to Conrad how lucrative the shoreline can be as a gambling den. This is not going to turn out well. Also, Conrad/Trucco - while Jack and Declan were clearly born yesterday, Amanda was not.

But the storyline admittedly got a heck of lot more interesting once Conrad got involved or rather Amanda got him involved - you'd think she'd have learned by now how bad an idea that is? She should have gone to Emily for help first. Not that Emily's available.

* Daniel...poor Daniel. While he's figured out that his mother manipulated Emily into getting back together with him to stop him from doing the deal and getting in deeper with the Initiative. He hasn't figured out why or for that matter why Emily did it. "You must think I'm really dumb" he tells Emily. Well, yeah, considering how well she's been able to manipulate you to date.

I love the women in this show...they are so clever.

Comments

[revdorothyl.livejournal.com]

the bad-boy guys who are plaguing Jack/Declan (portrayed by Michael Trucco of BSG fame and someone else that I recognize but can't quite place).

The other brother is played by J. R. Bourne, whom I mostly know from playing the Tok'ra agent and wannabe Sam Carter love-interest Martouf/Lantesh on Stargate: SG1. Another one of Carter's long string of dead boyfriends and almost-boyfriends, more's the pity (though he did make a return appearance among the alternate universe SG1 teams in season 9 or 10, as I recall). :)

[flameraven.livejournal.com]

I have serious doubts that Belle's amnesia is permanent. The show is based on fairy tales and definitely loves its happy endings, even if it also loves throwing a ton of complications in the characters' way first.

I do feel really bad for Belle though. While the dwarf went back to his "real world" identity and memories, I'm not sure Belle has any real world identity-- she spent the time during the curse locked up in solitary. So I think she has absolutely no base or point of reference, and unfortunately everyone else was too busy to sit her down and at least explain some basics. ("Your name is Belle, you work at the library, you were dating that guy and that's why he keeps hanging around you.") And of course Rumpelstiltskin approached the whole situation in completely the wrong way.

I'm really interested to see what will happen with Rumple (the expert on magic) and Emma (the sensible one) out of town while Cora and Regina start whatever they have in mind... and with the mysterious stranger alerting the rest of the world to Storybrook's existence. It seems likely that Neal will show up in Storybrook now that Emma is gone, and that's going to be a whole tangle of drama in itself.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Yeah, I find my problems with the Rumpy/Belle pairing aren't with Rumpy characterization but Belle's. Rumple is complicated and thorny and that's interesting. I like his whole conundrum with Bae. That end of his story works. Belle on the other hand... her entire indentity within the show revolves mostly around him, and it's to the detriment of her character because it leaves her as serial victim and/or dupe. I actually cheered for the amnesia because maybe they'll create an identity for her. Until she has an independent self so that she is HER and not the one person who 'sees good in Rumple,' I'm just not going to care for this pairing as a pairing. It isn't about how 'good' (or not) Rumpy is. It's not a moral question, it's that he's a character (and interesting) and they've more or less turned her into a doormat. That doesn't work for me.

(And I have to admit that OUAT is the first series since BtVS/AtS that I could enjoy as fanfic. Not so much the execution of the series (which is quite suspect) but because it has such an interesting premise.)

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Count in another one who believes Baelfire is Henry's dad, although the character Neal Cassidy doesn't behave like someone who has memories of the Fairytale land, which Baelfire would, as he was 12 or 13 years of age when he left. Unless his memory got zapped by the portal OR he was playing it very cool with August/Pinocchio when August told him to leave Emma.

I don't find August's actions nearly as "loathsome" as you do--he was trying to make up for abandoning Emma in the first place when they were children. It was his job to keep on track so she'd be the savior. Unfortunately, he picked a bad time to do it, but I'm not convinced it was totally August's idea to have her tossed in jail. Could be wrong about that.

And perhaps my feelings about it are tempered by the fact that Emma came out of it fine, and fulfilled her destiny, and we haven't seen the last of Neal Cassidy.

[flameraven.livejournal.com]

I don't know, I thought we got to see some interesting identity stuff for Belle in the recent episode with the Yaoguei-- she went off adventuring, apparently reads Chinese (or the fantasyland equivalent) and managed to be badass and defeat it/save the Prince all on her own. I also really enjoyed her standing up to Hook in the same episode. She does have some identity with her love of books and managing the library, but we haven't seen much of it on screen. Which makes some sense-- she's still kind of piecing her life back together after years and years of being imprisoned, and this season is juggling so many plots they don't really have time to spend on anything non-crucial to those.

Admittedly, the animated Belle's main identity trait was also pretty much "I love books!" and that's about it, so... not totally surprising they haven't done more with her.

[flameraven.livejournal.com]

I don't think Baelfire is Neal... I think that would muddle the family relationships too much; there's already so many unresolved issues with Snow/Charming/Emma/Henry/Regina that making Rumplestiltskin and Bae related to them as well would be a really complicated mess. The show also does a pretty good job matching younger and older versions of the character, appearance-wise, and Neal doesn't really look anything like Bae.

August/Pinocchio did some pretty terrible things, but that's pretty much a side-effect of him being a wooden puppet-- he doesn't have any moral compass of his own, that's why he needed Jiminy Cricket as his conscience. (I think the original story actually goes so far as to say that he didn't have a soul and thus had to earn one with good deeds.) Naturally in the absence of a conscience he was bound to succumb to temptation.

My friend and I have discussed (and apparently the fanfic writers have much debated) another serious issue that's gone unmentioned-- what is going to happen when Snow and Charming (and Emma) find out that Geppetto, Jiminy Cricket, AND the Blue Fairy lied to them and thus forced them to abandon Emma in the real world? Snow and Charming went along with the scheme because they thought there was no other way... but I feel like there will be some serious hell to pay if Snow realizes that she could have been with Emma all along.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

My friend and I have discussed (and apparently the fanfic writers have much debated) another serious issue that's gone unmentioned-- what is going to happen when Snow and Charming (and Emma) find out that Geppetto, Jiminy Cricket, AND the Blue Fairy lied to them and thus forced them to abandon Emma in the real world? Snow and Charming went along with the scheme because they thought there was no other way... but I feel like there will be some serious hell to pay if Snow realizes that she could have been with Emma all along.

One of the reasons I think this is a good show is I can at present state with near-certainty "They'll never address this glaring issue."

And I'll be wrong.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

August/Pinocchio did some pretty terrible things, but that's pretty much a side-effect of him being a wooden puppet-- he doesn't have any moral compass of his own, that's why he needed Jiminy Cricket as his conscience.

This is a brilliant analysis. I think we overlook his borderline sociopathic approach to things because he's so charming (pardon the pun).

[flameraven.livejournal.com]

I think Hook gets this treatment a lot in fandom. There's no denying he's pretty attractive, but some people seem to mix up "this character is totally hot!" and "they must have a secret heart of gold." And then they are shocked when the character continues to do terrible things.

I do wonder where the hell Pinocchio disappeared to, though. They had like, one minute that showed him disappearing and then nothing since. I guess maybe he went to fetch Neal and will show up again when Neal does?

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

I didn't think August was so much good-looking as charming in personality. After the initial fake-out with "WTF stranger in town," they honestly sold him as someone with the best intentions: convince Emma about the truth when she's a natural skeptic. So that's what I got sold on.

I have been wondering where he is this season, too. We see him all wooden in the first episode of S 2, but he is gone by the time Henry tells Gepetto/Marco where he is staying.

Then we get the flashback episode where we see August approach Neal Cassidy 11 years ago. I believe that is also the episode where we see a flashback of August befriending Marco/Geppeto in Storybrooke circa season 1, before the memories return.

What's frustrating is they never have followed up with Marco saying, at least briefly, "Everyone's been reunited except me!" It's like it's a non-issue, and it would take a few seconds of story time.

I assume August has gone off to fetch Neal, but there was a bit of a time incongruity with August still being wood *after* we see Neal get the postcard saying the curse has been broken. Which makes me wonder if the writers screwed that up (how could he send a postcard if it took him time to recover after the curse was broken), or if someone else sent Neal the postcard, or if it's just one of those, we see the effect before the cause things that this show does.

Anyway, I am now thinking August/Pinocchio has some 'splaining to do.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

No, I mentioned it here: "we see a flashback of August befriending Marco/Geppeto in Storybrooke circa season 1, before the memories return."

Not the same thing as them meeting face-to-face after the memories return. Marco/Geppeto might not even realize his new worker is Pinocchio.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I realized this after I posted the comment - I went hunting for the episode, and discovered I was confusing it with a scene in S1, where he becomes an unpaid assistant to Marco in his shop.

The last time he's referred to in present day Storybrook is in Episode 2.2, where Henry hunts for him and can't find him.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Why would he fetch Neal? He sent him the postcard.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

And I was thinking that scene where he becomes the unpaid worker of Marco was a season 2 flashback to season 1.

*And this is after viewing both s1 and s2 back to back in a marathon this weekend*

[flameraven.livejournal.com]

Hm, true. I need to rewatch the first part of this season; there's so many plots that I forget the details.

On the other hand, where else would he have gone? I get the sense Geppetto has been actively looking for him, so presumably if he was still in the town somebody would have seen him.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Maybe he's not convinced Neal would come without a visit. Although why it's so important Neal come in August's grand scheme of things is up in the air.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Particularly when it was pretty clear August wanted Neal far far away from Emma and Storybrook. And was reluctant to give Emma what Neal wanted him too.

There's no motivation.

As far as I can tell August is a bit opportunistic. I can't imagine him doing anything that doesn't have serve him.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

He could have become a wooden toy and be sitting in a shop somewhere?
Or someone took him?

I thought he was working in Marco's shop...but I got an episode from last season confused with one from this season - apparently he did that last year.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Hence the reason I decided to grab the DVD's to S1...this narrative is a wonderfully detailed puzzle. I could easily become obsessed. LOL!

All these fine little details. I keep forgetting things here and there.

One of the many reasons I'm convinced Bae is Neal - my back to back viewing of Crocdile (the Hook/Milla/Rumple episode) and Talhassee (the Neal/Emma episode) the final scene of Crocdile is an illustration of Bae in a hoodie, the first time we see Neal is in a hoodie that looks almost exactly like it. I'm thinking, hmmm...

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

He has done some stuff that looks pretty WTF, but since this show surprises me more often than not, I am waiting for some surprise reason for his actions besides "Made of wood have no moral center I didn't learn in the one year I was a real boy with my Dad."

(or however long it was)

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Yes, agreed.

And he does start becoming wooden again, because like in the fairy tale, he has lied and done many bad things. He can't become a real boy until he redeems himself.

Hmm...maybe that's his motivation for going after Neal? To reunite the family he tore asunder? Set things right? So he can become a real boy?

[flameraven.livejournal.com]

Hm. Well, he said he needed magic to survive when he was turning to wood. I forget the exact timeline, but I feel like Rumplestiltskin bringing magic to Storybrook means he's either wooden but mobile or back to looking human again.

I can't figure out why anyone would take him-- and even if someone was interested, pretty much all the major characters were involved with other things when the magic fell and he disappeared. So I'm assuming he left on his own, although what he would do, I have no idea.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

One of the reasons I think this is a good show is I can at present state with near-certainty "They'll never address this glaring issue."

And I'll be wrong.

So true. It's rare when a tv show surprises me, but this one has been doing it rather frequently. I did not expect them to break the curse last year. And I certainly didn't expect Snow and Charming to be reunited so quickly. Or for Belle and Rumple to be.

Also they've addressed things that I thought they forgot about, heck I forgot about it. Say what you will about the writing, they are good plotters/world-builders and are doing a rather decent job of keeping track of small details.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Eh, I disagree with you on Neal of course. But you already knew that. They resemble each other quite a bit to me. Mileage, it varies.

Also I've seen a lot of hints at it...which could be misleads. Not sure.


My friend and I have discussed (and apparently the fanfic writers have much debated) another serious issue that's gone unmentioned-- what is going to happen when Snow and Charming (and Emma) find out that Geppetto, Jiminy Cricket, AND the Blue Fairy lied to them and thus forced them to abandon Emma in the real world? Snow and Charming went along with the scheme because they thought there was no other way... but I feel like there will be some serious hell to pay if Snow realizes that she could have been with Emma all along.

And ironically August/Pinnochio has been responsible for this twice now.
Gepetto putting him in the trunk instead of Snow - resulted in it taking Emma far longer to remove the curse, it also resulted in Emma meeting Neil Cassaday and having Henry. But later, August/Pinnochio does the same thing again - he splits up Emma from Neal, and leaves her alone with no one. Note he doesn't stay with her, help her, or be her friend. He just ensures that she breaks up with NEal and goes to prison for 11 months.

If I was Emma, I would consider ripping Pinnochio a new one.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

See, I thought so to *until* I saw Talhassee and Neal didn't seem to say anything about the Fairytale land in response to any of August's leading comments. He seemed to not dislike magic like Bae, but not believe in it at all.

The only reason I hold out hope is August says he'll show something to Neal that will prove what he's saying is true, and we never see what it is, but it convinces Neal immediately. And it can't just be a typewriter in a box.

However, I would enjoy the upping of the angst quotient if Henry turns out to be Rumpel's grandson, so I await what is to come.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Eh, see above. I'm thinking he may have gone off to do something to redeem himself - so he can become a real boy, like in the story. Which could very well be reuniting Henry and Emma with Henry's father.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Now that he's done his duty to help Emma save Storybrooke, one can only hope he is trying to redeem himself by reuniting what he tore asunder.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

and are doing a rather decent job of keeping track of small details

Except see re: ponygirl's comment in my LJ to whit, "If no outsiders [as opposed to strangers] ever come to Storybrooke, how do they restock the stores and hospital?"

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

See - I read Talhassee completely differently.

There's two interesting scenes.

1. The Dream-catcher. Emma wants to leave it, he insists they take it since it can prevent nightmares. Emma shrugs that off as nonsense. Neal is quiet and the topic changes immediately to Emma stating, besides where would we put it - and he mentions its time to settle down.

2. August and the box.

August assumes Neal doesn't believe in magic. But Neal never says that.

August: Do you believe in magic?
Neal: I take it you do? (slight of hand - he avoids answering the question.)

What he says is "I take it you do." He's very careful about what he says to August, and wary. Which makes sense. Neal is also very careful about what he says to Emma.

Also when he looks in the box, he doesn't question, doesn't react, he just looks resigned to his fate. Like damn. I have no choice, again.

The actor actually plays it pretty well - very close to the vest.

But there's also the fact that Pinnochio in S1 knows a heck of a lot about Rumplestilskin and Bae, too much to be mere coincidence, and definitely enough to almost convince Rumple - he is Bae. Which makes me wonder if Neal revealed anything to August? Because August agrees to tell Neal when the curse is broken - not only tells him, sends him a post-card from the location - Storybrook. (Why would he risk an outsider coming in like that?)

If this was any other show...I'd shrug it off as coincidental, but these writers love fine details.

3. The gold watches...

Tick-tock and time is a big deal with Rumplestilskin. And Stilskin's name is Mr. Gold.

What does Neal steal? Watches. What type of Watches? Gold Watches.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Well...it is a tv show. They can only keep track of so many things.

But it does make one wonder. Are they self-sufficient?

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

No, it wasn't Star Gate, because I rarely if ever watched it. Something else..
but thanks!

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Actually not really into happy endings...or did you miss the fact that Sheriff Graham was killed horribly in the first season just after Emma professed her feelings for him or when she was about to? Or what about Regina and Daniel?

They have no problems killing people off or having an unhappy ending. The writers originally killed off Charming in the first season - but the network talked them into keeping Charming alive, because you do have to have some hope and happy ending. But these are LOST's writers...expect pain.

Other than that agree with your assessment of Belle. But don't expect a happy ending.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

And I have to admit that OUAT is the first series since BtVS/AtS that I could enjoy as fanfic. Not so much the execution of the series (which is quite suspect) but because it has such an interesting premise.)

So true. It also makes me want to write meta. They are doing a good job with world-building and mythology...which lends itself very well to fanfic.

Sort of agree on Belle - the character is still rather flat and hasn't been fully developed yet...am taking a wait-and-see attitude.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

I also thought of August's knowledge of Rumpel and Bae as a sign that August and Bae had met up on Earth, and so was excited to see a flashback to August and Neal. But then their interaction confusd me and I back-pedaled on my theory.

But I'm not discounting it. It seems highly telegraphed at this point that Bae is Henry's father.

[flameraven.livejournal.com]

Mm, I think there's a difference between tragic things happening in backstory and that meaning that the ending will be equally tragic. Charming and Snow had an absolutely ridiculous series of hurdles to get over, but in the end they have "true love" so you know it's always going to work out.

The deaths of Graham and Daniel to me seem more like a gender-flipped dynamic of the idea we see all the time in fiction, which is a woman's death spurring a man on to further his quest. It's a key moment that provides the impetus to go be heroic. It's the same deal with Graham and David, it's just this time it's the men dying. Graham's death gives Emma the push she needs to really engage Regina directly (as well as establishing Regina as very evil.) It's also the means through which Emma becomes Sheriff and really gains standing and influence in the town, and of course it is significant character development as it pushes her to put down roots and stick around. In Regina's case, Daniel's death serves to actually make her more sympathetic by giving us a reason why she went evil and just what her grudge against Snow is. The deaths had to happen to push the characters in those directions.

But I don't think that means either of them will get a tragic ending. The best case ending that everyone seems to be working towards is one in which both Emma and Regina have a solid relationship with Henry. There are a lot of issues to work through in the meantime, but I do feel like they'll get there eventually. Emma's romantic life may be tragic and confused, but... romance isn't really the focus of her character arc. Emma's goal isn't a happily ever after with a husband, it's a happily ever after with her son and her parents. Her character arc is all about being able to have stable family relationships, which she never had. Regina too is focused on mending family relationships.

Rumplestiltskin and Belle are a bit different, and I do think it's possible that they might have a tragic ending. But... they also seem to want to redeem Rumple and basically overcome the corruptive influence of the dark magic, and that's not going to happen if there isn't some kind of stable ending with Belle (even if that ending is Belle deciding, say, that she likes Rumple but a relationship isn't going to work out for her.)

I do think it's possible that Rumple will get a redemption-by-death ending, though-- something where he realizes that he's not able to overcome his darker impulses/dependence on magic and does some kind of suicide so that the dark magic doesn't corrupt anyone else. That would be tragic I suppose, although it's on the extreme end of possibility-- Rumple would have to overcome a LOT of his issues to get to that point.

Then again, I never watched any of LOST, so I don't know what these writers' patterns are in terms of character stuff. I'm just calling what I see in the show.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Only if they can single-handedly make all medical supplies they need, as well as stocking all the drugs, food, plastic whosits, curtains, furniture, meat, pens, computers, cars....

that we have seen them use.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Wait - I think I figured something out. Maybe the outside world has been coming in and out of Storybrook? After all Regina had Rumplestilskin set up an adoption for her and get Henry. So maybe, the rule was that people could come into town from outside, but they'd never want to stay...just drive through. Or they'd deliver. And if they did stay, no problem, no magic.

Also, no one aged in 28 years...so did time stop? Maybe outsiders did arrive, but since no magic, no one noticed anything? And apparently they still can come in. Or things just sort of went by really slowly?
28 years outside, 10 years inside?

Emma could come into Storybrook. August and Emma came in and out. As did Henry. Of course they all are part of the fairytale world - so there is that, but came to landwithout magic before Storybrook. Henry is the child of one (possibly two) fairytale characters.

So if you aren't from Storybrook and come into from the outside world - you can come in and out without problems?

ie.: The rules?

* If you got transplanted to Storybrook via Regina's curse - you can't leave without losing your memory. You couldn't leave before without something awful happening to you. (a la Belle/Dwarf and David's wife Katherine.)

* If you came to the land without magic from the Fairytale land or are a product of someone from Fairytale land, but did not go directly to Storybrook from the other universes affected by Regina's curse or transported by the curse, then yes - you can come and go without threat of losing your memory or for that matter having a major injury. (ex: Emma, August, Henry)

( Storybrook > Landwithout magic = no memory (after curse)

Landwithout magic >Storybrook > to Landwithout magic = fine no problems

Fairytale land > landwithoutmagic > Storybrook = fine no problems

Fairytale land > Storybrook > landwithout magic = problems

Landwithoutmagic> Storybrook>Fairytaleland>Storybrook>landwithoutmagic =no problems

So...since Henry was born in Land Without Magic - he can go to and from Storybrook no problems, since Emma and August went to Landwithout magic first before Storybrook - no problems.

The key? Whether you came directly from Fairytale land to Storybrook.
If you didn't and went to landwithout magic first at some point prior to visiting storybrook - you exist outside Rumple/Regina's curse or are unaffected by it.

My question? Are Cora and Hook affected by the boundaries of the curse?
They came from the sea.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

It seems highly telegraphed at this point that Bae is Henry's father.

Oh good, it's not just me then.

It also works on so many levels...plus the writers are similar to the LOST writers in that they just love shocking and ironic plot twists. This type of thing is just too good for a tv writer to pass up (sort of like Espenson's idea to make Robin Wood - Nikki Wood's son. LOL! )

And well, it does consolidate characters a bit...they have a lot of characters. These types of shows by their very nature tend to be a bit on the incestuous side of the fence, because again you have to consolidate.

(Yeah sure in reality it would never happen, but it totally would happen in a fairy tale.)

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

My impression was that prior to the curse breaking, only those with a connection to the fairy tale land could enter or leave Storybrooke. Children born in FTL (Emma, August), or their children (Henry).

And only because they were outside FTL when the curse came down.

Cora and Hooke are of course from FTL and were protected from the curse by Cora's protection spell, so they meet the criteria (although they came afterwards, so it's moot).

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

At this point, the only thing that makes me doubt Bae is Henry's father is Neal Cassidy is that it *has* been so telegraphed. It's almost too obvious, and the show doesn't always take the obvious route, they have fake-outs.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

True...August was a mislead last year, if you recall, turned out to be Pinnochio. And it is more than possible Neal Cassidy could turn out to be Jack (of the Beanstalk) fame - although I think that may be David (Charming)

That said...they telegraphed that Cora was Queen of Hearts for twelve episodes. There's been very few character reveals that I haven't seen coming from a mile away. Subtle these writers aren't.

But you are right, the constant hinting may well mean a twist coming up.

Although in one of the interviews I read - it was strongly hinted that Bae is someone who has already been introduced and is in the show (process of elimination leads me to Cassidy, everyone else is sort of spoken for).

Cassidy could be Peter Pan - the two names are somewhat synonmous. Eternal Youth. And that would explain all the Lost Boy and Neverland references Cassidy made, as well as his reaction to the magic box and backing off.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

I thought we saw Jack's skeleton next to his sword in the giant's lair. (couldn't miss the sword, it said "JACK" in big letters).

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Yeah, we did. But it could be a mislead.

Someone else with Jack's sword. After all...Emma is weilding it at the moment.

The problem with these types of tv shows...is people live, die, and come back from the dead...at the writer's whim.

Personally I hope Jack is dead, always thought the Giant was a more interesting character.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

I want the Giant to come back, and maybe help Emma in a battle or something, like the Giants fighting in the last Harry Potter movie (but on the good side). That'd be cool.