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shadowkat1. LJ is being difficult. Kicked me out last night. I can get into my journal, just not post to it. No clue why. Trying again today.
2. OUAT - Last Night's Episode:
Well, they didn't turn Neal into a flying monkey. That's something, I suppose.
Although at the moment, I think that may have been the better choice. Since I suspect we'll be seeing Little John again.
Poor Emma, every guy she falls for gets killed in front of her, or turns into a flying monkey and falls to his gruesome death. Talk about bad luck.
I don't know about anyone else? But I am personally getting tired of OUAT killing off characters. Particularly characters that I'm somewhat partial to? Why can't you be more like GRRM and Scandal and just kill off characters I don't care about? First Sheriff Graeham and now Neal. OUAT reminds me a bit of Whedon's series - Whedon always killed off characters that I really liked too, but kept pointless annoying characters around... so too does Vamp Diaries. Annoying.
As a general aside? Why do tv writers feel compelled to kill off characters? Oh, so and so wants to leave the show?? What will we do with the character? Oh, I know, we'll kill them. (laughs evilly). It'll shock the audience. (Well, not always. After a while, you start to expect it - unless of course you are really good at hiding the fact they are leaving and don't tend to do this very often, and don't tease that you plan on killing someone off.) Or I don't know what to do with this character - but we need to further these two - I know, we'll kill him! Hee. Apparently just having the character move out of town is out of the question.
When did television writers get so bloodthirsty?
I wouldn't complain...but this is the fourth tv series that's killed off a major character or recurring contract character.
Also like Whedon, they evilly made the actor part of the main cast just six months prior to killing him off.
2. Talk about a spell backfiring on you. Neal is tricked by WWW to brings back his father in order to get back to Emma and his son, but instead ends up sacrificing his own life. Which is beyond stupid. Why couldn't he have gotten Belle to do it instead? (Sorry, I know people love Belle in this series. I liked Belle in the fairy tales and the Disney film and Robin McKinney novel...but not in this show.)
IT is admittedly a great metaphorical twist...I can see why they did it. Neal's spell is son for the father. The father resists and gives up his control over his own power to Selena, and takes his son into his own body and mind - driving himself insane. His son finally breaks out to reunite with Emma...but the truth comes out, and only one can survive, or they will remain insane and twisted. It is the worst thing they could have done to Rumplestilskin. He spends all this time trying to reconnect with his son - sacrifices his life to help his son, only to have an old nemesis pop up and trick his son into doing a spell the brings him back but in exchange for his son's life.
But it was written so abruptly. We get abrupt scenes. Abrupt emotionally bonding with Hook and Neal, abrupt bonding with Emma and Neal, and an abrupt bonding scene with Rumple and Neal.
It's not built up to. It's just sort of thrown at you. The whole story. And summarized. Sort of like watching a recap. Which rips the emotion out of it. I was left wanting, craving more...feeling, I don't know? Robbed? Cheated?
This may be why we have a lot of fanfic for series like OUAT because the writing falls short somehow in the emotional department?
So, it works on a metaphorical level but not quite on an emotional one, because it's done too fast with no gradual build-up. The concept - it's rather cool but emotionally lacking. This is a problem and why I think the series is bleeding viewers, OUAT in Wonderland has similar issues. The audience needs more. Craves more. You can't just throw it at us. The story is being told too fast in some respects.
3. I feel cheated of Neal's story. There was more there. Felt the same way about Sheriff Graeham.
IT felt like the character existed solely to further other characters arcs. Not for his own.
4. Selena clearly wants Snow's child - possibly for the same reason Regina wanted Henry. I actually think that's the story here. It's about lost children and regaining them. Here, Rumple in an attempt to hold onto his grown son, abdicates control of his power to Selena...only to ultimately lose him in any event. Regina watches Robin with his son, remembering her loss of Henry. Realizing that Robin's son could have been her's, that Robin is the lost love that she ran from. He's the man with the lion tattoo. And Neal loses his son...never able to quite get back to him or to have his son remember him and know the man he truly is.
5. Emma's power separates Rumple and Neal...so it is either a healing power or a power that reveals truth or places things back the way they are meant to be? Not sure. Thoughts??
I rather liked her scene with Henry. Although, even there, she doesn't quite give him the truth, but an abbreviated version of it. Henry is dealing with her hiding the truth from him far better this season than last. He's matured. To her credit...it is a bit hard to tell Henry, that they are in Storybrook to stop the Wicked Witch of the West. And to help Snow White and Prince Charming, who are her parents. And...that the Wicked Witch of the West killed Neal. The kid would most likely ask if Santa Claus was also involved, and is the Easter Bunny around the corner? And who could blame him?
Last week the bonding scene was with Henry and Regina, this week Emma and Henry, and both took place next to that lake.
I'm beginning to think the three parent family is Emma, Henry, and Regina? With maybe Hook and Robin Hood playing step fathers?
6. Hook and Neal's moment came a bit out of the blue. No real build up. Yes, believable. But it felt rushed. So lost its power. I did like what Hook stated though - that he sometimes forgets the boy that Neal was, the boy he looked after for a while and cared for as if he were his own...only to let a bunch of nonsense over a woman get in the way of that. (Which should have been a warning sign that they were killing Neal off.)
7. Belle is at least helpful this episode - putting her research skills to good use. She's able to uncover what Neal did and what the mark on his hand means. And she does try, unsuccessfully to stop him from opening the seal. Although she doesn't try that hard. And she saves Lumiere...who they borrowed from the Disney film, except he's a wee bit darker here...even for a candle flame.
He lies, as opposed to illuminating the truth.
And he's created by WWW.
8. Seriously, why does Mary Margaret have to be a brain dead, useless marshmellow in Storybrook?
Not a bad episode...but it felt, abrupt or rushed somehow. And I don't like Mary Margaret's characterization. Also, enough with the character deaths. Stop killing characters I like, you silly writers. It's getting old.
2. OUAT - Last Night's Episode:
Well, they didn't turn Neal into a flying monkey. That's something, I suppose.
Although at the moment, I think that may have been the better choice. Since I suspect we'll be seeing Little John again.
Poor Emma, every guy she falls for gets killed in front of her, or turns into a flying monkey and falls to his gruesome death. Talk about bad luck.
I don't know about anyone else? But I am personally getting tired of OUAT killing off characters. Particularly characters that I'm somewhat partial to? Why can't you be more like GRRM and Scandal and just kill off characters I don't care about? First Sheriff Graeham and now Neal. OUAT reminds me a bit of Whedon's series - Whedon always killed off characters that I really liked too, but kept pointless annoying characters around... so too does Vamp Diaries. Annoying.
As a general aside? Why do tv writers feel compelled to kill off characters? Oh, so and so wants to leave the show?? What will we do with the character? Oh, I know, we'll kill them. (laughs evilly). It'll shock the audience. (Well, not always. After a while, you start to expect it - unless of course you are really good at hiding the fact they are leaving and don't tend to do this very often, and don't tease that you plan on killing someone off.) Or I don't know what to do with this character - but we need to further these two - I know, we'll kill him! Hee. Apparently just having the character move out of town is out of the question.
When did television writers get so bloodthirsty?
I wouldn't complain...but this is the fourth tv series that's killed off a major character or recurring contract character.
Also like Whedon, they evilly made the actor part of the main cast just six months prior to killing him off.
2. Talk about a spell backfiring on you. Neal is tricked by WWW to brings back his father in order to get back to Emma and his son, but instead ends up sacrificing his own life. Which is beyond stupid. Why couldn't he have gotten Belle to do it instead? (Sorry, I know people love Belle in this series. I liked Belle in the fairy tales and the Disney film and Robin McKinney novel...but not in this show.)
IT is admittedly a great metaphorical twist...I can see why they did it. Neal's spell is son for the father. The father resists and gives up his control over his own power to Selena, and takes his son into his own body and mind - driving himself insane. His son finally breaks out to reunite with Emma...but the truth comes out, and only one can survive, or they will remain insane and twisted. It is the worst thing they could have done to Rumplestilskin. He spends all this time trying to reconnect with his son - sacrifices his life to help his son, only to have an old nemesis pop up and trick his son into doing a spell the brings him back but in exchange for his son's life.
But it was written so abruptly. We get abrupt scenes. Abrupt emotionally bonding with Hook and Neal, abrupt bonding with Emma and Neal, and an abrupt bonding scene with Rumple and Neal.
It's not built up to. It's just sort of thrown at you. The whole story. And summarized. Sort of like watching a recap. Which rips the emotion out of it. I was left wanting, craving more...feeling, I don't know? Robbed? Cheated?
This may be why we have a lot of fanfic for series like OUAT because the writing falls short somehow in the emotional department?
So, it works on a metaphorical level but not quite on an emotional one, because it's done too fast with no gradual build-up. The concept - it's rather cool but emotionally lacking. This is a problem and why I think the series is bleeding viewers, OUAT in Wonderland has similar issues. The audience needs more. Craves more. You can't just throw it at us. The story is being told too fast in some respects.
3. I feel cheated of Neal's story. There was more there. Felt the same way about Sheriff Graeham.
IT felt like the character existed solely to further other characters arcs. Not for his own.
4. Selena clearly wants Snow's child - possibly for the same reason Regina wanted Henry. I actually think that's the story here. It's about lost children and regaining them. Here, Rumple in an attempt to hold onto his grown son, abdicates control of his power to Selena...only to ultimately lose him in any event. Regina watches Robin with his son, remembering her loss of Henry. Realizing that Robin's son could have been her's, that Robin is the lost love that she ran from. He's the man with the lion tattoo. And Neal loses his son...never able to quite get back to him or to have his son remember him and know the man he truly is.
5. Emma's power separates Rumple and Neal...so it is either a healing power or a power that reveals truth or places things back the way they are meant to be? Not sure. Thoughts??
I rather liked her scene with Henry. Although, even there, she doesn't quite give him the truth, but an abbreviated version of it. Henry is dealing with her hiding the truth from him far better this season than last. He's matured. To her credit...it is a bit hard to tell Henry, that they are in Storybrook to stop the Wicked Witch of the West. And to help Snow White and Prince Charming, who are her parents. And...that the Wicked Witch of the West killed Neal. The kid would most likely ask if Santa Claus was also involved, and is the Easter Bunny around the corner? And who could blame him?
Last week the bonding scene was with Henry and Regina, this week Emma and Henry, and both took place next to that lake.
I'm beginning to think the three parent family is Emma, Henry, and Regina? With maybe Hook and Robin Hood playing step fathers?
6. Hook and Neal's moment came a bit out of the blue. No real build up. Yes, believable. But it felt rushed. So lost its power. I did like what Hook stated though - that he sometimes forgets the boy that Neal was, the boy he looked after for a while and cared for as if he were his own...only to let a bunch of nonsense over a woman get in the way of that. (Which should have been a warning sign that they were killing Neal off.)
7. Belle is at least helpful this episode - putting her research skills to good use. She's able to uncover what Neal did and what the mark on his hand means. And she does try, unsuccessfully to stop him from opening the seal. Although she doesn't try that hard. And she saves Lumiere...who they borrowed from the Disney film, except he's a wee bit darker here...even for a candle flame.
He lies, as opposed to illuminating the truth.
And he's created by WWW.
8. Seriously, why does Mary Margaret have to be a brain dead, useless marshmellow in Storybrook?
Not a bad episode...but it felt, abrupt or rushed somehow. And I don't like Mary Margaret's characterization. Also, enough with the character deaths. Stop killing characters I like, you silly writers. It's getting old.
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no subject
Date: 2014-03-31 11:52 pm (UTC)Better late than never, though. Me=not happy about this development, but not ready to jump ship from an otherwise interesting show.
no subject
Date: 2014-04-01 01:37 am (UTC)And I think many shows are too infatuated with rolling revelations out at top speed to take the time to adequately develop all the emotional beats.
no subject
Date: 2014-04-01 01:49 am (UTC)I'm rather annoyed by the ending. Although I do understand...in the fall, it began to occur to me that the writers were having issues with the actor playing Neal and the character - and couldn't figure out what to do. When I figured it out - I got highly annoyed - because that character had loads of potential. He was golden. So much wasted potential - he was the reason behind the initial curse. He had been raised by Hook, who stole his Mom from him and was into the love of his life. That's a gift. Plus he had all this stuff to atone for. Why...couldn't they do anything with that? Was it the actor? He's not a bad actor...he's actually a better actor than the guy playing Hook - I know I've seen him in other things. WTF? Was it the direction? Did he just not gel with the cast/writers?
But like you, I'm not ready to jump ship from an otherwise interesting show. (I know I'm in the minority, but I actually liked last week's episode a lot better. Charming is growing on me, and I adore Rumple. Also...the metaphors in this show are often well done.)
Plus - this may open the way for some Rumple/Henry bonding...which we got a little bit of before Neal came back. Henry may get to know who his father was through Rumple. And Rumple may feel the need to atone for his son's sacrifice through his grandson? I hope they go that route, instead of focusing completely on the Belle/Rumple relationship. Personally...I'd have been happier if they'd killed Belle off...but I know I'm in the minority on that one.
no subject
Date: 2014-04-01 02:00 am (UTC)I finally saw a tv series that handled it well, which I know you aren't into so won't bore with details, The Good Wife.
Scandal has become increasingly silly about it. Every week there's a "huge twist". It needs to slow down, it's losing emotional impact. Last season worked better - because of the slow build.
Say what you will about LOST, but it did build up to those emotional beats.
Juliet's death was shocking and heart-wrenching. Neal's wasn't. And it should have been. They could have written it better. Instead of doing the last three episodes on Regina, Snow, and Charming - focused on Neal in the flashbacks and his search for a way to get back to Emma and Henry, how he got desperate and realized the only way was to get Rumple back. Instead they summarized it. Regina's love interest with Robin Hood has gotten far more build up. As has the baby storyline with Snow and Charming and their fears of being parents. But Neal got relatively little. It was sort of in the background.
Fanfic always flourishes where there are many gaps to fill and things to fix.
The way you can tell a tv series has great characters, but flawed plotting is how much fanfic it has. Straight-up canonical fanfic that fills in gaps and fixes things.
Genre television writers, for some reason, are great at metaphor, world-building, and characterization, but horrid at plotting.
no subject
Date: 2014-04-01 02:31 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2014-04-01 06:02 am (UTC)Not just television writers. This folk song goes back many a year now:
"The Ballad of Railroad Bill", by Andy Breckman
Now Railroad Bill was a hard living man
He used to take his women two at a time
And everyone agreed he was the baddest engineer
That ever drove down the Santa Fe line
His name was known from the folks back home
To the tippy top of telegraph hill
And all the little boys when they were sneaking cigarettes
They used to dream about the Railroad Bill
Well one day Bill was walking along
And he saw a kitten stuck in a tree
When he saw what was the matter he ran to get a ladder
To set that kitty cat free
Bill said no, ain't gonna do it
Ain't gonna climb up no tree
This is a stupid stupid song and no folk singer
Gonna make a fool outa me
I said one day Bill was walking along
And he saw a kitten stuck in a tree
When he saw what was the matter he ran to get a ladder
To set that kitty cat free
Bill said no, ain't gonna do it
Ain't gonna do what you said
This is a stupid stupid song and as far as I'm concerned
That cat can stay there till it's dead
I said wait a minute Bill, you can't argue with me
For God's sake I just made you up
I got the pen in my hand, I want you up in that tree
I want that cat unstuck
Bill said no, I hate cats
ain't gonna climb for no cat
He said why don'tyou have me save a beautiful girl
Who's been tied down to the railroad tracks?
I said maybe there'll be room in the 8th or 9th verse
But right now I want you up in that tree
I'm the writer, God Damn, I got the pen in my hand
And you'e supposed to listen to me
He said you asshole,
why should I listen to you, you should be listening to me instead
He said I'm a railroad man and if I was real
I'd seperate your face from your head
You ungreatful brute, I cried, you pushed me too far
I gotta show you I can do as I please
So an earthquake came and it shook the whole terrain
And it brought Railroad Bill to his knees
And then a tidal wave broke and everything got soaked
Bill was almost compleatly washed away
And then a big green monster from the planet Neptune landed
An bit Railroad Bill on the leg
I got the pen in my hand!
I can do what I want
I'm a bright new young talent on the rise
So get your ass up that tree or I swear you ain't gonna
Get out of my folk song alive
He said you don't scare me
You might be funny, but you don't scare me
And if you don't leave me alone I'm gonna tell everybody
Where you stole this melody
But before he could speak, his tongue fell out
And he could not make a sound
Suddenly he jumped on me
and grabbed me by the neck
And pulled me to the ground
And he hit me in the stomach
And he hit me in the face real hard
I think he almost broke my nose
Just then a lightning bolt came outa nowhere
Hit him right between the eyes and killed him instantly
The cat came down from the tree, had a bowl of warm milk
Went to sleep for the night
Railraod Bill is survived by a wife and three kids
Dear God, I love to write...
*******
Are you sure Neal is dead, dead? Anya is back in the Buffyverse, you know. Sort of. Some characters just won't stay dead. Lord knows the writers may try! (Or try not. There is no "do".)
no subject
Date: 2014-04-01 02:35 pm (UTC)Rumple has pretty much lost his raison d'etre. After the vengeance is gone (I expect he'll be vengeance focused when freed from being enslaved to Zelena), but after the vengeance is gone, he's going to be adrift. At that point (which may be next season) I'm hoping for some Rumple/Henry.
no subject
Date: 2014-04-01 02:40 pm (UTC)And MRJ is a fine actor. I don't feel though that they ever wrote to MRJ's strengths. That may be a hazard of creating a character and giving his backstory before ever casting him. Bae as we saw him as a kid didn't seem quite the natural fit for the man that MRJ would play. MRJ needed a snarkier, darker character. He could've played Rumple's son quite well...but (if this makes sense) he wasn't really a match for the Rumple son as presented by young Bae.
no subject
Date: 2014-04-02 01:34 am (UTC)No, it totally makes sense.
I think this was another case of the writers wanting their cake and eat it too or not thinking it through. Which happens a lot with tv shows - because they tend to be written so quickly and not really plotted long term...
They wrote young Bae as heroic and selfless, and Neal as sort of snarky and wimpy, or MRJ role. But didn't really delve into how Bae became Neal. Was it what happened in Neverland that turned him into Neal? They left a lot out in the middle. Which is the problem with the flashback narrative technique, it sort of disconnects your heart from the piece. You are spending far too much time intellectualizing it - so it's hard to relate emotionally...if that makes sense?
See, we wouldn't have been jarred by the differences between young Bae and Neal, if we got a bit more of how Bae became Neal Cassidy. When did he become a con artist and a thief, when did he become a coward like his father?
no subject
Date: 2014-04-02 01:39 am (UTC)It didn't start killing off lead characters until the 21st Century. Even Buffy didn't kill off leads...until 2000 (Jenny wasn't a lead).
And yes, Neal's pretty much dead. (Read elsewhere that they were definitely killing off a character this year - Sheriff Graheam/Huntsman killing off. Of course we may still get snippets in flashbacks). But I get your point.
no subject
Date: 2014-04-02 01:42 am (UTC)Rumple had an interesting relationship forming with Henry, which got dropped after Neal/Baelfire returned, hoping it resurfaces.
And you're right - he's going to be adrift once they defeat Zelena. Is it Zelena or Selena?
no subject
Date: 2014-04-02 01:43 am (UTC)