Review of A Dance with Dragons by George RR Martin (aka ADWD)

[shadowkat]

I didn't love this book as much as many people on my flist and elsewhere did, in part because I don't really find reading about warfare, battle strategy, and battle scenes all that interesting. And you sort of have to be into it - to love these books - because that's what the author/writer is interested in. He's done a lot of research in this field and is fascinated by battles.

My brother and my mother asked if they should read the Song of Ice and Fire Series.

My response?


Well, the writer is fascinated by warfare - so about 85% of the books is about medieval warfare. Characters die in gruesome ways, because hello, medieval warfare. However, he does write some of the most complex and diverse characters on the planet. And his female characters are diversified, well-developed, and complex - which is rare in the fantasy field.

Mom: or any field for that matter.

Me: Unfortunately, true. That said, the story is told in multiple points of view. Each book in the series has at a minimum 10 points of view. And he adds more points of view as he goes. A Dance With Dragons has over 20 points of view. Each chapter is a different point of view. And the points of view are not of characters that necessarily know each other or are even near one another. In some cases they may take place before the previous character's point of view. For example? In one point of view we're told the dragons have been released. The next chapter is in the point of view of the person who releases them. Then the next is in the point of view of someone halfway around the world who doesn't even know the dragons exist and could care less, and is busy plotting something completely unrelated. It's not until five or six chapters later that we get back to what happened after the dragons were released. Each chapter ends on a cliff-hanger or pseudo-cliffhanger. Which, if you are lucky, is resolved five - ten chapters later, with a new cliffhanger set up. But in most cases isn't resolved into the next book or the resolution happens off page, and is referred to briefly in another character's pov.

Add to this. There are about 1000 characters to keep track of. Some of which change their names or hide under aliases. There's subterfuge - where the writer is attempting to fool the reader regarding who the character is.

It's sort of like reading 10 epic fantasy novel serials at the same time. Oh, and you have to wait 5-7 years for the next book to come out, although if you start the series now - it most likely won't be an issue, since the next book will probably be published by the time you get to it. Unless you race through them and do a lot of skimming.

Mom: You do realize that you've managed to talk me out of reading these books, right?

Me: I'm not finished. The writer kills off favorite characters in gruesome ways, and allows nasty ones to succeed. Also, he's repetitious in places and likes to provide a lot of unnecessary back story.

Mom: Reminds me of John Jakes Bastard series, been there done that. I'll pass.

Me: I'm only reading them because he creates fascinating characters and I want to know what happens to them.

Mom: How long does it take for him to write a book?

Me: five to seven years.

Mom: Definitely pass.

Brother: The tv series is worth checking out though.


Now on to the spoilery review of A Dance with Dragons, which you should read at your own risk, although I don't really know how much it will spoil tv viewers, since the writers of the tv series may veer away from some of the plot lines.

Reading this book, at times, felt like watching Peter Jackson's The Hobbit. Too many pointless fight scenes and navel gazing. Not enough forward momentum on the plot. That said various characters remain fascinating and compelling - and well worth the effort.
I may have issues with the writing style and plot mechanics, but I adore his characterization. Also, he does manage to pull of something that is really hard to pull off well - which is multiple points of view. He tells the book in third person close or first person distant, however you wish to describe it, but the pov person changes each chapter. And there are over 20 changes. Also it's not really told chronologically, events happen out of order. For example - in one chapter, we're told dragons have been released. Then the next chapter we get the actual releasing. At least these two chapters were back to back, otherwise it would have been confusing.

Not a lot happens the first half of the book, most of the big stuff happens in the last quarter of the novel - so you have to plow through about 400 pages to get there. Also a lot of big things happen off-page, and are referred to in other chapters.

The book ends with approximately ten cliffhangers. This one was published July 2011 and the next book ...may not be published until 2016 or 2017...although he averages a book every 5-6 years, so I'm betting end of 2015, or 2016.

I have to admit I spent a good portion of the book worrying about the dragons.



* The cliff-hangers:

1. So, is Jon Snow dead? I don't see how he could have survived - he was stabbed multiple times, in multiple places by the Brothers of the Night Watch. Why they felt the need to stab him to death, I've no clue. But I found their timing highly irritating. For one thing - I'd just begun to like the character. Also, he was going after the grating and annoying Ramsey Bolton, who needed to be killed off about five chapters ago. That character is annoyingly difficult to kill or defeat.

Couldn't the Night's Watch have let him go after Ramsey Bolton? Seriously, it would have been easier.

Okay, I take that back - I do know why they felt the need to do it. It's because they disagreed with the direction he was going. He was bringing in the wildlings, who were admittedly dangerous and they'd fought this whole time. And sending people off to bring in more, while going off with another contingent to save Mance Raider, who they hated.
Still, seemed to be a stupid move, stragetically.

Also - if he's dead, why is the fandom still obsessed with the whole Rhaegar+Lyanna=Jon Snow? How can it possibly matter now that he's dead? Seems sort of pointless to me. Another plot-thread that goes nowhere, except that it does explain how we got here or provides ironic context and motivations for various characters. There's a lot of time expended on the whole Rhaegar bit, and how the first war came about, except this round we get from the opposite side. I honestly think the information is there - to provide motivations for various characters, not for any other reason.

Have to say - I was surprised by the stabbing of Snow. I honestly thought this character would make it to the end. And he was just grievously injured or in jeopardy at the end of the novel. Maybe he is? But multiple stab wounds seem to be bit difficult to survive.

2. Jon isn't the only one who is the victim of multiple stab wounds. Ser Kevin Lannister and Grand Master Purcell - get whacked at the end of the novel by Varys, the Spider, who had disappeared. Varys actually provides context and credence to the incredibly dull Connington chapters and the whole subterfuge with Lord Aegon, Rhaegar's son - who Connington smuggled to Braavos and raised to become king.

Can't say I was all that upset with the stabbing of Ser Kevan and Purcell, except it was a bit on the gruesome side and a tad overkill. Just slice their throats and be done with it. Varys shows up with an army of child assassins. And he does it - because Ser Kevan was plotting to undue various things, and taking out Connington. When he wants the Lannisters and Tyrell's to continue to implode, so that Connington can easily take over.

At this point, I'm wondering if there will be much left.

3. Cersei and Margary Tyrell are both getting trials. Cersei has requested trial by combat, with the silent giant Ser Robert as her champion. (I'd bet money he's Ser Gregor Clegan...a psuedo Frankenstein). So, she's probably safe. But has no real power after her public humilation by the High Septon. Cersei is cleverly biding her time and working hard to survive and keep her remaining kids alive. Margery has requested a normal trial - and most likely will be pardoned since her father returned with his army and declared himself Hand, and with Ser Kevan's death - is now most likely the ruler.

4. Dany flew off with Drogon. Everyone thought she died, except her faithful. Her husband, Hazzadar, who she should never have married - tried to poison her but was unsuccessful. He also tried to kill her dragons - did not succeed there either. Now - finally - Ser Barriston imprisoned him and is about to go to war with the annoying Yunki, and the Harpy. Dany however is off with Drogon, her dragon, and finally after much struggle, figured out how to make peace with him and have him fly her back towards home - also get her something to eat on the way. She runs into the Khal, with Drogon by her side. She's also come to the realization that her noble husband tried to have her killed and staying in Mereen was a huge mistake.

Meanwhile Quentyn Martell released her dragons. He dies horribly attempting to tame one and fly it. Stupid boy. He's not been cast in the tv series, which means they most likely will combine two characters. Now the dragons are fine, thank god. I spent a good portion of this book - worrying over the fate of Dany's dragons. I'm not sure I'd forgive Martin for killing off the dragons.

Cliff-hanger: Will Dany make it back to Mereen in time to save Daario, and the others?
Will Ser Barriston manage to defeat the Harpy and Yunki. Will Daario get killed? Will the dragons kill everyone in Merreen and the Yunki? (Unlikely, the dragons just want to be left alone to kill sheep - they are the most harmless and nicest characters in that city.) Will the Yunki and Harpy kill the dragons? Personally I'm rooting for the dragons to kill everyone but Barriston, Daario, the Second Sons (Ser Jorah and Tyrion), Dany, and Missandra. We can get rid of a whole slew of annoying characters in one fell swoop.

5. Tyrion and Ser Jorah have teamed up. Took a while - Jorah enslaved him first. Then they had a shipwreck, and both got enslaved. Now, Tyrion has managed to free them from slavery and convinced the Second Sons to take them on as part of the team, in exchange for a lot of Lannister gold. Where we ended - Tyrion was going to convince the leader of the Second Sons to abandon the stupid Yunkish, and join up with Barriston and Dany, who were the winning team. Meanwhile, the dwarf, Penny, is being a drip and keeps whining about leaving their former master, where they were taken care of. Tyrion realizes that Penny is the sort who will always want a master and wants to be a slave, she wants to be taken care of, have her decisions made for her, have her little pets, and make people laugh at her. It drives him crazy, since he's the opposite. Also, what she doesn't know is their master had sent them into the ring to be slaughtered by lions, the queen saved their lives. (Mainly because Dany didn't find the prospect of lions killing drawves to be all that funny.)

6. Asha manages to survive Stannis's camp and her men are returned to her. As is, her brother and Jeyne, who they found freezing in an snow drift. Theon and Jeyne, with not all that much help from Mance, manage to escape Ramsey Bolton. We're not sure what happens next. Since Asha is still a prisoner of Stannis. They are snowed in. And starving. And having difficulty figuring out how to take out Winterfell.

7. According to the letter Ramsey sends Jon Snow - Mance and his washerwomen are captured. Bolton skins them alive and puts Mance in a cage. Poor Mance. And has managed to defeat Stannis, and now has possession of Light-Bringer.

How much of this is true, we don't know. Last we saw, the Bolton's and Frey's were racing out into the snow to fight Stannis, after having various people in their party mysteriously killed. And having killed some of their guests. Nasty bunch. Tired of reading about them. Also they appear to be un-killable.

So is Stannis really dead? If so, what then for Melissandra?

8. Ayra is well on her way to becoming a faceless assassin, who someone who can change her face at will. She just killed her first assignment, and has had her first face change. She's rapidly losing her identity as Ayra Stark.

9. Jamie vanished with Brienne, who had met with Lady Stoneheart and may now be like her, a walking undead.

10. Meanwhile in Doran - Martell has plotted to send Mrycella and Trystan with Obarra to Kings Landing, to ensure that nothing amiss occurs. While he waits for Dany to show up with her dragons.

* The whole Rhaegar back story makes it very difficult to like Robert Barratheon, who basically killed a lot of people for no good reason. Rhaegar would have been a better king. A lot of characters muse on what might have been. Barriston muses on how things would have been better if Rhaegar had never noticed Lyanna, and if he'd won the jousting instead. Kevan muses on how it would have been better if Rhaegar married Cersei instead of Elia who was too weak. Connington muses on how it would have been better if he'd supported Rhaegar over Aerys and had not egotistically gone after Barratheon, or had been more monsterous like Tywin Lannister and burned the entire village that Barratheon was hiding in.

It's made clear that the killing of Rhaegar's children was upon Barratheon's orders.
Not supported by either Barriston or Ned Stark. This killing - resulted in various people hating Barratheon and the Lannisters - for a good reason.

It's also rather clear, that Jon may well be Rhaegar and Lyanna's child. Either that or Aegon is. Could be Aegon. Although that is just wild speculation on my part. Honestly I don't think it matters that much. They didn't have paternity tests. The Rhaegar/Lyanna romance is important - because it motivated Barratheon to go after the Iron Throne, and gave Tywin the opportunity he craved for power. A lot of characters blame Rhaegar for this, but the subtext blames Barratheon, whose jealousy and pride caused him to destroy a lot of lives, and the Starks for their pride, ego and blind loyalty.

The back story also makes you sort of root for Connington (although his chapters are dull), Dany, Ser Jorah, Tyrion, Varys, Aegon, Doran, and Jon Snow.

* New favorite characters?

- Ser Jorah
- Daario
- Asha
- Jon Snow (whose most likely dead)

* Characters that I could do without...

- Connington
- Ramsey Snow
- Roose Bolton
- Lady Dustin
- Penny
- Quentin

Overall, not a bad read. Enjoyable in places, deathly dull in others. A bit repetitive. Too many battle scenes. And I'd have cut about 75% of it.

[ETA: apparently I'm in the minority regarding the speculated fate of Jon Snow.

Me:Okay, he's dead.
GOT fandom: No, he's not. He's a key player - the whole story centers on him.
Me: He was stabbed five or six times in major arteries.
GOT fandom: Doesn't matter - key prophecies center on him. He may have merged with Ghost.
Me: But they were major arteries...and he was unconscious...and Ghost was penned up elsewhere.
GOT fandom: No, everything points to him being alive.
Me: Okaay, whatever you say. ]

Comments

[lizziebuffy2008.livejournal.com]

Now, take this with a giant grain of salt (considering I have not read the books, just various people reviewing/interpreting them,) but I do not think Jon Snow is dead. I think ultimately it will be all about Jon Snow; if he is truly the son of Rhaeger and Lyanna, then he would be part fire and part ice, so my guess is that it will all come down to him.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I don't know - after reading the books, particularly this one? I think that is highly unlikely and just wishful thinking on some of his diehard fans part. There's no way he could have realistically survived this assault - he was stabbed in the gut, the back, the neck and lost consciousness as the fourth knife went in. Unless he becomes warg and goes into Ghost...I'm not seeing it. Or the whole thing was a dream sequence. Because other people get stabbed once or twice in those areas and are dead pretty quickly. I suppose Melissandra could try and save him - but he'd be undead, like the others saved by that method.

I just don't see anything that supports your theory in the book that I just finished reading last night. Not one thing.

He's also not that major a character. (ie. we don't spend that much time with him and most of it, is rather pointless.)

Also, Dany is actually more central in the books. I honestly think the whole story is about her at this point. There's a lot of time spent in Mereen, and lot of people are talking about the coming of Dany Stormborn, the true heir to the Iron Throne.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

Yours is a minority view among fans. A plurality of fans believe that Jon is the key character in the series and that he will be "reborn" (the exact mechanism remains unclear, but warging into Ghost is popular).

Thank God I no longer have to worry about spoilers on this point. :)

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Yeah, well, I'm rarely with the majority.

But that begs the question. Why? Where's the facts supporting this? Because I just don't see it.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I suppose they could go the Bran route and have him merge into Ghost and then later into one of the Dragons. That's what I think could happen - and makes some sense. Although he lost consciousness - so don't see how that could happen, unless GRRM retconned, which he does a lot, and have Jon somehow dreamshift into Ghost.

There are certainly not so subtle hints - with the skin-shifter and the Boar, and with Bran and raven/Hodor/wolf/trees, plus Ayra and the cat/wolf. But I don't think Martin has built it well with John, here and there he mind shares with Ghost, but he doesn't really do it that much not like Bran and Ayra.

These books are poorly written in some respects. The writer spends way too much time hammering on things that are obvious and teasing on other points.

Hee, there's a reason I'm not involved in the fandom. They'd hate me.
I see all the flaws.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

I hope they're not crazy, because it's my view too. :)

The basic reasoning is that there are too many signs pointing to Jon. For one thing, there's no good reason to create such a mystery about his parentage, and to leave so many clues, without there being a payoff. For another, some of the prophecies seem to apply to him in particular, notably Rhaegar's statement in the HotU that "his is a song of ice and fire" (i.e., the title of the series). That seems to refer to Jon (born of Rhaegar [fire] and Lyanna [ice]). Lots of other stuff too: the raven calling Jon king; Mel seeing "only Snow" when she looks into her fires; the fact that Ghost still lives; the visions Bran and Jon have of the Winterfell crypts; and others.

My own guess is that Jon will survive either (a) by warging into Ghost; or (b) because the cold prevents him from bleeding out. I doubt Mel will restore him to life as Thoros did Beric, but that's possible too (I hope it doesn't go that way).

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Or he could merge into one of the Dragons...hence his being a song of ice and fire.

I don't know, first of all there's a lot of unreliable narrators. And Martin likes to mislead his readers.

And prophecies keep being debunked - there's a huge emphasis on the unreliability of religion and religious prophecy in this book from various angles.

So for that analysis to work - you'd have to discount the fact that book has a realistic undertone and many of the alleged heroes are summarily slaughtered.

I'm of the opinion that Martin may just kill everyone.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

I expect Jon may either ride a dragon or warg one. I think Bran definitely will.

The prophecies in book usually come back to bite those who believe in them, but they do generally come true (if in Delphic ways).

Heh. He may indeed.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

True. The writer likes to play with religion.

But what happens to Jon is rather intense and graphic - he is stabbed five to six times and in major arteries. Also, it doesn't make sense he wouldn't bleed to death - since other people have and do in the same area.

I mean the writer goes out of his way to imply that he's been killed. It's not like he was just burned (although that killed Quentin), or maimed, or shot with a crossbow (that killed Tywin and Kevan). Also this is medieval times - you can't exactly save someone who was stabbed five or six times.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

I don't worry too much about "realism" in this series when it comes to things like bleeding out. Note that nobody in the scene said Jon was dead, just that he felt 3 stab wounds (the first of which was not fatal). Obviously if some form of magic gets used to save him, that changes the equation. There are lots of theories out there, with varying degrees of plausibility, but I don't know which one GRRM will use. I just am confident that Jon's not truly dead.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Wildings: Is he dead?
Melissandre: He might just be mostly dead. Let's see (she bends close and pumps Jon's chest...he breaths the word Ghost.) No just mostly dead, if we act quickly we can save him.


[I don't know - I read that section carefully - it's written abruptly. One moment Jon is busy watching Wun Wun rip apart the annoying Ser Patrick and attempting to stop the Night's Watch from attacking Wun Wun, the next a blade cuts into his neck almost slashing his throat - but misses. Next one gets him in the chest. The next in his back. The next..is either arm or leg, but he loses consciousness before it connects.) I looked for an out - didn't see one. Melissandre isn't nearby, Ghost isn't nearby, and it's totally out of the blue. Of course we are in Jon's pov, so maybe they are.

The writer of course can do whatever he deems fit. I hope he saves him - because I don't want the character to die - he was about to take out Ramsey Bolton. Plus he's on the short list of characters that I actually like or halfway care about. Although - at this point, I've learned not to invest too much - it's a book about death and war. And the writer enjoys killing off characters in gruesome ways. But up to this point he hadn't killed anyone I cared about.]

[sophist.livejournal.com]

He's clearly leaving the impression that Jon's dead, but similar things happened with Arya (when the Hound hit her with an axe; when she woke up blind) and Tyrion (at his first battle). So I remain more confident than I probably should be, comforted by the fact that lots of other people think so too.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Except - with Arya it wasn't as clear or definite. I doubted that one.
And resolved quickly. Also Tyrion, granted has had more than one near-death experience - such as almost drowning and getting the grey death in Dance. And then's there's what they did with Catelynn and Brienne (who I'm more worried about actually).

The writer definitely went above board. And I heard the fans stating he wasn't dead - long before I read the book, which is why it surprised me so much. I honestly thought it would be more like Ayra, Asha or Tyrion - with a bit more leeway. But there's not much leeway here. Granted it's not quite as definite as Rob and Ned Stark, who lost their heads. But it is similar to Catelynn.

But it admittedly is odd that GRRM would kill him this early. Considering all the time he spends on the whole Lyanna/Rhaegar bit and the big hints, also all the hints with Melissandre and the wildlings.
Plus, Jon feels very much like the symbolic counterpoint or mirror of Dany. Dany is Fire, Jon is Snow. Dany is Dragon - symbolizing Fire, while Jon is wolf - symbolizing ice. And there's a mislead that Dany is burned alive or dead, when she survives. You also have both counseled by Mormounts. And both have lover's who died in their arms.
So, it doesn't make a lot of sense that Martin would kill him off.
Which is probably why most fans don't believe he has.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's all those other factors which convince most people. We could be wrong -- as the interview says, he does like to screw with the readers.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Oh, there's apparently going to be eight books now. Not good news.
Considering he has yet to finish Winds of Winter. And it takes him 5-7 years to write a book, and he's 65 years of age.

So let's see...8 books. 5-7 years. We're on book 6. That means, he'll finish by the time he reaches his 80s, if we're lucky.


Also no publication date for Winds of Winter - although I'm willing to bet it comes out in the fall of 2015 or 2016.

[sophist.livejournal.com]

I'm not counting on him ever finishing. At least then he won't have to worry about plot holes. :)

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Well Brandon on Good Reads agrees with you, and makes a good point that characters don't tend to be dead in the books until the writer states it in the text.

https://www.goodreads.com/topic/show/1039591-the-winds-of-winter-spoiler

And he has avoided saying anything about Jon Snow.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Of course there's also this group of theories, and this guy seems to agree with me:

George R.R Martin hasn’t confirmed the inclusion of Jon Snow POV chapters in TWOW, and to tell you the truth I’m happy with the potential prospect of them not returning. This isn’t because they were boring; Jon chapters rarely felt like pulp, and they gave readers their required dose of information on The Night’s Watch and the Wildlings which was fantastic. Nevertheless if Jon has cheated death in a similar fashion to Brienne and Lady Stoneheart a lot of the tension that makes the A Song of Ice and Fire so addictive will be sadly absent. Regardless of my wishes, it is very probable that Jon will return as a POV character in one of the three regularly speculated forms.

One spectacularly humdrum theory suggests that Jon simply didn’t die of his stab wounds at the end of ADWD. This idea is the least appealing of the three to me, the flatness of the notion certainly doesn’t strike you as fitting with George Martin’s style of storytelling; in fairness though, the concept isn’t totally farfetched. Alternatively, there is a proposal knocking about that suggests Jon will ultimately be resurrected by Melisandre through the ‘Kiss of Life’* technique previously harnessed by the Red Priest Thoros of Myr.

The third, final and likeliest potential outcome rests within the concept that Jon warged into his Dire Wolf Ghost upon his untimely death. The prologue of ADWD fulfilled its clear purpose to enlighten readers on the manners and effects of warging before Jon wargs into Ghost upon his betrayal. Were it not for this clear and intent purpose, the prologue would’ve been little more than an unnecessarily random inclusion filtered out in the books editing process. It’s worth mentioning that if Jon’s soul is trapped inside Ghost long enough, the likelihood is that he will effectively die slowly within the Dire Wolf:

“The interaction between the skinchanger’s and animal’s mind will influence both personalities, with detrimental effects to the human if the animal’s influence is not fought.” – A Wiki of Ice and Fire

(*Footnote: a notable, and well supported tinfoil hat theory postulates that Melisandre is a member of the undead, whether beknownst to her or not. If this theory turns out to be fact, it is safe to say Melisandre would forfeit her life in saving Jon’s!)


My guess is the warg - since that is foreshadowed by Melissandre telling Jon to keep his wolf close to him at all times. And not to let anything happen to the wolf.
However - the wolf isn't close - he's caged in one of the towers due to the Boar.

ETA: oops here's the link - http://the-artifice.com/the-winds-of-winter-12-major-plot-points-to-anticipate/2/

[sophist.livejournal.com]

I believe the direwolf names are meaningful, so I expect Jon to warg into Ghost at least temporarily. How that affects his resurrection, I don't know.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Yep - the warging has at least been foreshadowed.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Hmm...interesting interview with GRRM about the subject of deaths in his books:

http://www.ibtimes.co.in/game-thrones-season-5-spoilers-tyrion-lannister-die-winds-winter-605776

Martin continued: "They say that you write what you want to read and you create in television what you want to watch. I love shows that are unpredictable. I like shows to be more real. Predicatable shows and books bore me.

"I want to be on the edge of my seat. So, the deaths are important and at all times necessary," he added.

[It's also about war and its consequences - set in brutal medieval times - so he's justified.]

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

The whole prologue with the guy warging into another animal rather than dying seemed to be all set-up for Jon doing that though.

(And I really could care less whether Jon is dead... I just in no way believe that he is.)

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Neither did my co-worker, when I told him about it - he read up to Dance, I believe.

Although...if GRRM wants to be unpredictable, killing off Jon Snow would certainly be unpredictable.

Personally? I think he's going to warg into the wolf and eventually warg into someone or something else. That fits the story thread the best.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

That's what I think.

Jon Snow generally bores me, but I cannot think of any good reason for that long prologue except to foreshadow. And Warging seems to be not just a Bran trait but a family one as basically Blind Arya warged into the cat when she was being tested (and I don't think that her doing that was what was intended by the Faceless Men. I think it was just an innate Stark talent. Although I think it'll bypass Sansa because her direwolf died. Not that I think that the direwolf was necessary, just that the direwolves are metaphors for... something. That's why Arya's direwolf wanders the wilderness. Sansa's was taken by the Lannisters and cut off from its pack forever. Rickon's is the most wild of the lot, etc...)

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

You're probably right. I admittedly forgot the prologue. I read the stupid book over a two-three year period. Tried it - got bogged down 20% of the way through, picked it up again a year or so later at the 20% mark. And decided to just skim all the boring passages - and there are a lot of boring passages. So I have a vague memory of that section, except it was incredibly boring and had far too much torture.

Snow didn't get mildly interesting into GRRM decided to stab him to death, or mostly to death.

Will state that Martin likes to tease the reader about character deaths. Have figured out the pattern, so he can't fool me any longer. If a major pov character's death is reported in someone else's pov, someone who wasn't any where near the character at the time - then the character is most likely not dead.

Examples: Davos - he's reported dead in Cersei's chapters in Feast, but we discover in Dance that he is still alive, and this was subterfuge. Bran and Rickon - reported dead in Robb and Catelyyn's chapters, but in Bran's - still alive. Ayra reported dead in Jamie's chapter, still alive in Arya's. Stannis - reported dead in Jon Snow's - he's definitely still alive.

Martin reminds me of various tv writers who seem to think being unpredictable means randomly killing off characters or pretending to do so. What they don't realize is after a while, the audience starts to expect it and doesn't care. I'm at that point in the Song of Ice and Fire - I only cared if the dragons survived, which is a problem.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I will be STUNNED if Jon Snow remains dead.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I had a rather amusing conversation with a co-worker about this today. He stopped reading after Feast.

Me: So, everyone thinks this character in Dance with Dragons is still alive. But he was stabbed four times.
Co-worker: It's possible.
Me: In the neck, the chest, the back and they were still stabbing him when he lost consciousness.
Co-worker: Okaay..maybe not. Who is this character?
Me: Jon Snow.
Co-worker: There is no way that he is dead! It would ruin the story. There's too much build-up, too many secrets about him that need to be revealed, he's too central to the story. The writer would never kill him off. He probably merged into his wolf.

Then he asked what happened to the nice girl Stark.

Me: Sansa? She's okay, and off with -
Co-worker: No, Ayra.
Me: uh, she's not exactly nice anymore. She's become an assassin.
Co-worker: Really? Ugh. That's horrible. This is why I stopped reading the books.