OUAT - Episode 4.3, Rocky Road...
Oct. 12th, 2014 10:14 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkatEnjoyed tonight's episode more than expected and more than last week. It had some delicious twists.
And as predicted? All roads lead back to Rumplestilskin.
* Was right about Emma's issues about Hook. The lady has major abandonment issues, not helped by the fact that every man she gives her heart to - expires pretty quickly afterwards. She reminds me a little bit of Willow from Buffy in that respect. (Sorry been analyzing Buffy the Vampire Slayer in a separate post off and on this weekend.
Still trying to figure out why I got so obsessed with that series but haven't with anything else. A cereal fan, I'm not - ie a fan who can be insanely fannish about more than one tv show or thing. I enjoy/love OUAT, but it doesn't grip me in the same way Buffy did, nor for that matter has anything else. I don't quite know why.)
* The Snow Queen (does she have an actual name yet? Not sure if it was given?) - is a conundrum. Like most of the OUAT villains - she's rather complex. And may not be an obvious villain. Apparently someone trapped her inside the same urn in which Elsa was trapped. And - that urn was in Rumple's hands, and Emma accidentally brought it to storybrook. What is curious - is not only does Rumple know her, but he knows what she wants and how she knew Emma. Which apparently was prior to Emma's arrival in Storybrook?
So...was it an accident, Emma bringing the urn to Storybrook? Or did Rumple ensure it?
He notably doesn't take the memory wipe drug until after she hops inside the time whirlpool, with the urn going with them.
And if so, why?
Killian figured out that Rumple was lying about Elsa and Anna - because he knew that Rumple hadn't given Belle the dagger. Belle may be a deluded idiot, but Killian isn't - he knows Rumple well. Rumple would never give Belle that much power over him.
[As an aside on the whole redemption bit? People don't go from being villainous to saints overnight. Also most villains and saints are rather complex - they may do something nasty one day and something saintly the next. So, showing both Regina and Rumple as struggling with the issue of right and wrong, as well as their machiavellian tendency to manipulate events to ensure a better outcome for themselves not to mention power abuses - makes sense. It wouldn't make sense if they didn't do that to some extent.]
Then we have that very interesting last scene between Rumple and Snow Queen - where he states three interesting bits of information:
1. Sorry things didn't turn out the way you wanted. Although I'm not surprised.
2. Did Emma recognize you? No. You're better off if she doesn't, don't you think.
3. Do you need my help?
This explains why he was reluctant to help Elsa. He had a prior arrangement with her Aunt, the Snow Queen. (Assuming she told the truth about being the Aunt.)
Another interesting bit - was when the Snow Queen looked at the painting, she had a wry smile, turning bitter when Elsa pointed out her mother in the picture, which she quickly hid. Making me wonder the nature of her relationship with Elsa's parents.
It clearly wasn't good - since she tells Elsa that she can't trust people, that they will always treat her as dangerous, an outcast, something to be destroyed or trapped.
* This leads me to a thematic arc that I'm picking up on this season regarding "villains" in stories. It's almost as if the writers are examining the tendency to create a clear villain in a story - one who gets punished, killed, or trapped, and is denied the happy ending - because hello, villain. OR they must show remorse and be redeemed fighting alongside the good guys. But still paying for past crimes.
Particularly female villains. (Since both male villains, Rumple and Killian (Hook), have managed to find some happiness.)
1. first we have Elsa who is misunderstood as a villain and everyone wants to lynch
2. then the Snow Queen, who appears to be one, but Elsa isn't so certain
3. Rumple - who is ambiguous as always, and may or may not be...it's never clear
4. Regina - who wants to hunt down the writer of their story and get him/her to change it so that a villain can have a happy ending.
5. Will Scarlet - who is a thief, but does provide them with who was really behind the icing of Maid Marian
6. Hook - who still in villain garb, does non-villainous things and appears to be fully redeemed. So he gets a happy ending but Regina and Will don't?
Regina tells Henry that she'd like to find the writer of the story that governs her life - and get him to write her a happy ending. Henry's response was rather interesting - he states, "that's the best idea you've had. The story gets you completely wrong - it paints you as purely villainous, and you aren't. He needs to change that."
Stories often embellish and exaggerate. Also, as a friend of mine recently wrote on Face Book..."people will often paint you as the villain in their story. Don't let their story define you." Which reminds me of a fly-away comment of Joss Whedon's in the Wild at Heart commentary that always stuck with me. He tells Seth Green that from the villain's pov - he or she is the hero in the story. You have to remember that when writing villains that they see themselves as the protagonist. What we often forget is in life there are no leads, we are an ensemble cast, and it all depends on whose point of view you are in. I think OUAT is sort of tackling that idea. The idea that "villain" depends on perspective and isn't quite as clear cut as stories pretend.
Same thing with "happy ending" - the happy ending is also a matter of perspective.
No one really has one, since the end is of course "death". Best you can hope for is happy moments and more than a few.
Regina is written better this season than she's been in previous seasons. My issues with Regina were more about how they were writing her than the character. In previous seasons she came across as absurdly uneven and somewhat whiny. This season - she's level headed and not that whiny at all. And yes, I agreed with her comment regarding Snow White's hideous taste in artwork and interior design.
Her interactions with Robin Hood were on target. And it makes sense that she'll continue to snark at Emma.
* Snow White like Emma - has abandonment issues. She's terrified of losing track of another child. Emma wasn't the only one scarred by Regina's initial curse - so was Snow White. (I'm amazed they forgave Regina as quickly as they did.) Mary Margaret can't quite let go of her kid. He's with her everywhere. Jim Cricket aptly points out that the kid will survive if they aren't joined at the hip. I hadn't really noticed it until he pointed out, but he's not wrong.
David, on the other hand, is sort of following his daughter around. Which also makes sense. He had no time with her before. No time to be a father.
* Emma oddly looks a lot like Elsa and the Snow Queen. And the Snow Queen knows about her powers and who she is. What is that connection? Also Elsa and Emma seem to have a lot in common.
Good episode. Made me want to buy S3 on DVD.
And as predicted? All roads lead back to Rumplestilskin.
* Was right about Emma's issues about Hook. The lady has major abandonment issues, not helped by the fact that every man she gives her heart to - expires pretty quickly afterwards. She reminds me a little bit of Willow from Buffy in that respect. (Sorry been analyzing Buffy the Vampire Slayer in a separate post off and on this weekend.
Still trying to figure out why I got so obsessed with that series but haven't with anything else. A cereal fan, I'm not - ie a fan who can be insanely fannish about more than one tv show or thing. I enjoy/love OUAT, but it doesn't grip me in the same way Buffy did, nor for that matter has anything else. I don't quite know why.)
* The Snow Queen (does she have an actual name yet? Not sure if it was given?) - is a conundrum. Like most of the OUAT villains - she's rather complex. And may not be an obvious villain. Apparently someone trapped her inside the same urn in which Elsa was trapped. And - that urn was in Rumple's hands, and Emma accidentally brought it to storybrook. What is curious - is not only does Rumple know her, but he knows what she wants and how she knew Emma. Which apparently was prior to Emma's arrival in Storybrook?
So...was it an accident, Emma bringing the urn to Storybrook? Or did Rumple ensure it?
He notably doesn't take the memory wipe drug until after she hops inside the time whirlpool, with the urn going with them.
And if so, why?
Killian figured out that Rumple was lying about Elsa and Anna - because he knew that Rumple hadn't given Belle the dagger. Belle may be a deluded idiot, but Killian isn't - he knows Rumple well. Rumple would never give Belle that much power over him.
[As an aside on the whole redemption bit? People don't go from being villainous to saints overnight. Also most villains and saints are rather complex - they may do something nasty one day and something saintly the next. So, showing both Regina and Rumple as struggling with the issue of right and wrong, as well as their machiavellian tendency to manipulate events to ensure a better outcome for themselves not to mention power abuses - makes sense. It wouldn't make sense if they didn't do that to some extent.]
Then we have that very interesting last scene between Rumple and Snow Queen - where he states three interesting bits of information:
1. Sorry things didn't turn out the way you wanted. Although I'm not surprised.
2. Did Emma recognize you? No. You're better off if she doesn't, don't you think.
3. Do you need my help?
This explains why he was reluctant to help Elsa. He had a prior arrangement with her Aunt, the Snow Queen. (Assuming she told the truth about being the Aunt.)
Another interesting bit - was when the Snow Queen looked at the painting, she had a wry smile, turning bitter when Elsa pointed out her mother in the picture, which she quickly hid. Making me wonder the nature of her relationship with Elsa's parents.
It clearly wasn't good - since she tells Elsa that she can't trust people, that they will always treat her as dangerous, an outcast, something to be destroyed or trapped.
* This leads me to a thematic arc that I'm picking up on this season regarding "villains" in stories. It's almost as if the writers are examining the tendency to create a clear villain in a story - one who gets punished, killed, or trapped, and is denied the happy ending - because hello, villain. OR they must show remorse and be redeemed fighting alongside the good guys. But still paying for past crimes.
Particularly female villains. (Since both male villains, Rumple and Killian (Hook), have managed to find some happiness.)
1. first we have Elsa who is misunderstood as a villain and everyone wants to lynch
2. then the Snow Queen, who appears to be one, but Elsa isn't so certain
3. Rumple - who is ambiguous as always, and may or may not be...it's never clear
4. Regina - who wants to hunt down the writer of their story and get him/her to change it so that a villain can have a happy ending.
5. Will Scarlet - who is a thief, but does provide them with who was really behind the icing of Maid Marian
6. Hook - who still in villain garb, does non-villainous things and appears to be fully redeemed. So he gets a happy ending but Regina and Will don't?
Regina tells Henry that she'd like to find the writer of the story that governs her life - and get him to write her a happy ending. Henry's response was rather interesting - he states, "that's the best idea you've had. The story gets you completely wrong - it paints you as purely villainous, and you aren't. He needs to change that."
Stories often embellish and exaggerate. Also, as a friend of mine recently wrote on Face Book..."people will often paint you as the villain in their story. Don't let their story define you." Which reminds me of a fly-away comment of Joss Whedon's in the Wild at Heart commentary that always stuck with me. He tells Seth Green that from the villain's pov - he or she is the hero in the story. You have to remember that when writing villains that they see themselves as the protagonist. What we often forget is in life there are no leads, we are an ensemble cast, and it all depends on whose point of view you are in. I think OUAT is sort of tackling that idea. The idea that "villain" depends on perspective and isn't quite as clear cut as stories pretend.
Same thing with "happy ending" - the happy ending is also a matter of perspective.
No one really has one, since the end is of course "death". Best you can hope for is happy moments and more than a few.
Regina is written better this season than she's been in previous seasons. My issues with Regina were more about how they were writing her than the character. In previous seasons she came across as absurdly uneven and somewhat whiny. This season - she's level headed and not that whiny at all. And yes, I agreed with her comment regarding Snow White's hideous taste in artwork and interior design.
Her interactions with Robin Hood were on target. And it makes sense that she'll continue to snark at Emma.
* Snow White like Emma - has abandonment issues. She's terrified of losing track of another child. Emma wasn't the only one scarred by Regina's initial curse - so was Snow White. (I'm amazed they forgave Regina as quickly as they did.) Mary Margaret can't quite let go of her kid. He's with her everywhere. Jim Cricket aptly points out that the kid will survive if they aren't joined at the hip. I hadn't really noticed it until he pointed out, but he's not wrong.
David, on the other hand, is sort of following his daughter around. Which also makes sense. He had no time with her before. No time to be a father.
* Emma oddly looks a lot like Elsa and the Snow Queen. And the Snow Queen knows about her powers and who she is. What is that connection? Also Elsa and Emma seem to have a lot in common.
Good episode. Made me want to buy S3 on DVD.
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no subject
Date: 2014-10-13 08:48 am (UTC)I did, back in August shortly after it came out. I found that just like the seasons before, the overall story hangs together much better and makes more sense when you can serial-watch it over a much shorter period of time.
Emma oddly looks a lot like Elsa and the Snow Queen.
I didn't notice this until you pointed it out, but they do sort of, don't they?
Perhaps the characters are the same people in the different parallel universes, just with different time-lines, and differing circumstances altering the way things happened to them.
Although we don't know for sure about TSQ yet, all three of them have been involved in situations where their parents may have disappeared or appeared to have abandoned their children.
When Emma and Hook were trapped in the past last season (in the Enchanted Forest), didn't they go to a place that had some manner of snow magic? Gonna have to look that up in the DVD set and watch it again. Perhaps that's the connection between Emma and TSQ in some fashion.
So...was it an accident, Emma bringing the urn to Storybrook? Or did Rumple ensure it?
As I'm pondering right now, I don't think Rumple planned this. The Urn would have stayed in Rumple's dangerous magics stash except Hook and Emma changed the timeline. Emma and Hook "close the loop" and return to the present day in Storybrooke, but if the Urn had stayed with Rumple the original timeline might have put TSQ in the Urn instead of Elsa.
In other words, something Hook or Emma changed (the butterfly effect) put Elsa in the urn instead of The Snow Queen, and this happened while they were still in the past. Rumple stated that his stash was for magicks "too dangerous or uncontrollable" for him. Is Elsa dangerous? Clearly not. So why would she be in his dangerous magicks stash?
Ackk-- good thing time travel doesn't exist in reality, it's a pain to resolve the paradoxes, loops, and whathaveyou.
no subject
Date: 2014-10-14 01:02 am (UTC)I'm not sure it's meant to be that complicated. Emma may have just brought Elsa over later than was intended. I think Elsa would have been in his shop, if Emma had inadvertently brought her back with her through time.
Glinda - the Good Witch of the North was exiled in a snowy kingdom in S3.
I remember because I originally thought she was going to be the Snow Queen and got all excited.
no subject
Date: 2014-10-14 03:55 pm (UTC)