Pros and Cons of Online Posting
Oct. 22nd, 2003 02:53 am![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkat[Edited so that Friends Only due to Comments]
Been reading the boards sporadically today and a little of my friends livejournals. And being in an oddly contemplative mood, I thought I'd offer the following food for thought.
It's frustrating to go online sometimes, isn't it?
People can be such jerks. It's almost as if they forget to edit themselves. They forget someone out there is reading what they put-out there, which is easy to do.
I admit, I vent a lot in my live journal and I usually warn my friends first. Or at least I hope so. ;-) I've also privatized some of the more depressive or ranty posts. And I'm sure some people have avoided befriending me because I discuss Spike a great deal.
Why do I discuss Spike? Because at this point in my life my interest in that character is helpful to my situation. I understand his situation and it is in an odd way helping me through my own. Purely metaphorical of course. I know he’s a fictional character. Had the same reaction to Buffy in S6, when S6 was on. I identified strongly with that character.
The people who don't care or don't like Spike may not see it, but there's more nasty anti-Spike sentiment on the posting boards right now. All of the non-charactercentric boards. That said, there’s an equal amount of anti-Buffy and anti-Angel sentiment. There’s one character centric board I had to stop reading b/c of the anti-Angel/anti-Buffy posts. The character of Spike is extraordinarly popular right now and perhaps that threatens people? Maybe not. But when you bash fans of that character and that character as well? Then you make yourself look like an idiot. You make yourself look worse than the person you are responding to. This goes for all character and fan bashing regardless of the subject. Some of the posts in response to the poster that people don't like are far worse and far more annoying than that person's original post. It's sort of like how people respond to trolls, by becoming trolls themselves. It's something I have personal experience with by the way, because it is what happened to me this summer, a certain poster pushed my buttons, didn't matter what s/he/it posted on - it pushed my buttons. S/he's tone and writing style for some reason seemed condescending, patronizing, overly moralistic and insulting to “me”. I could not read h/ir posts without seeing red. Without wanting to hit back at h/ir and anyone who supported h/ir. So I finally did everyone a favor and "stopped" reading them. I don't read h/ir and s/he does not read me. Life is good. ;-)
I struggled with that by the way. Because other people on the boards seemed to respond to this poster occasionally, some even like h/ir. I've had to accept the fact that just because I can't stand h/ir does not mean others should. I'm sure there's quite a few people out there who can't stand me. Fact of life, as much as I hate it, is not everyone is going to like you, or agree with you. Some people for reasons I’ll never understand, will in fact hate me. Personalities, interests, beliefs just occasionally clash – that’s life. Doesn’t make them evil doesn’t make me good. Doesn’t make me right or them wrong. Life isn’t black and white. Or morally unambiguous in that respect, no matter how much I wish it would be. The best I or anyone can hope for is tolerance. And tolerance is easier said than done. It's one of the reasons I really appreciate Masq, who runs the ATPO board, and how she moderates her board - she refuses to censor, she tolerates posts and views that may make her crazy. And I’ve seen several that must have driven her around the bend, if she read them. Because tolerating views, discussing them and trying not to hurt others is something I aspire to. Sometimes I succeed. Sometimes I don't. And since Masq continues to tolerate others views, I applaud her board and call it home, even when I want to hit some of the people on it.
There's a great post by morgrain on the boards right now, that unfortunately only people who are spoiled could read - but the gist is that redemption comes from giving up the "will", the selfish desire to push our way through life without caring who we stampede on. So I’ll repost the philosophy and kill the spoilers, because I think it’s important. But will hide for those who are terrified. It’s from Schopenhauer. And as one poster mentioned on the boards it is very similar to what Buffy did in Chosen when she finally defeated the First Evil.
“If I understand Schopenhauer, it is through compassion / empathy for the suffering of others that the acquires wisdom and becomes a sage. It is through the perfection of this wisdom that the sage is able to bring about salvation / redemption.
One of the cornerstones of Schopenhauer philosophy is that the will is the transcendent thing-in-itself: that is self-interest is curtailed through force of will [self-denial] for the sake of others. Injure no one; on the contrary, help others as much as possible. This is how redemption is possible.
The only purpose in life must be that of escaping the will and its painful strivings. Schopenhauer's concept contains the foundations of what in Freud became the concepts of the unconscious and the id, and the foundation of civilization: sublimation.
Is the Cup of Torment that Sirk alludes to, really Life itself and living it......
Schopenhauer was one of the first philosphers to speak of the suffering of the world, which visibly and glaringly surrounds us, and of the nature of confusion, passion, and evil.”
I think the hardest thing in our lives is to feel compassion for those we cannot abide. To let go of hate long enough to forgive and understand them and through that reach compassion. In order to accomplish it, you really have to let go of your own desires and your own will which in a way is what Buffy did in Chosen. In Chosen Buffy faced down her own will, her desires, her fears – faced them in the First Evil who kept repeating how Buffy was the “Chosen One”. Superior. By sharing the power, she ended the superiority.
This is a concept, I’m struggling with it a great deal right now. My pride, my desires, my fears all rolled up into one little bundle. But I keep chanting the same lines over and over to myself – thou shall do no harm. No matter what happens – thou shall do no harm. It’s why I left the evil company last year because I knew if I stayed another day, I would lose it and do harm, and it is why I briefly left the fanboards this summer – because I feared I would do harm. And it is why I avoid certain posts, because I fear I will give in to the urge to do harm. Yes, I believe we can wound with words. And I try hard not to. Nothing on a tv show is worth hurting someone else over. No character. No storyline. But is anything worth hurting another? Anything? I wonder. Peace, liberties, love, equality – all these things are worthwhile but are they worth picking up a gun, a machete, or a sword and killing? Don’t know. But I do know that my own petty concerns and frustrations aren’t worth hurting others over, no matter how tempting. Anywho…just some thoughts at 2 am, when I should be in bed.
As an aside, I’d like to take this opportunity thank my readers, the livejournal people who befriended me, who continue to read my mad late night ramblings, and have responded so kindly these past few weeks. As well as for their own inspiring posts and entries. I do read them, even if I don’t always comment on them. TCH, Ponygirl, oyceter and Rahael’s entries this past weekend made me smile when I came online wanting to scream. If I haven’t said it before, I’ll say it now – you guys and gals (all of you not just the one’s I named) have helped me stay sane these last few weeks. Helped me feel less alone and less frustrated. Given me a place to run to, when I wanted to scream like a banshee. Even if I never see you face to face or hear your voices, you have all made an impact on my heart. Thank you. In the midst of the hubbub of millions of voices, it’s wonderful to find a few wonderful friends. You are the “pros” of coming online and you and people like you are the reason I continue to put my words out there. In that one way, I identify with Buffy whose friends got her through hell and back. And I continue to marvel at the fact that a TV show, a small cult tv show that not many people watch, brought together such a warm loving interesting incredibly diverse group of people. Just think if it hadn’t been for Spike, Angel, Buffy, Willow, et all we may never have met. (Okay gushing over….but you knew I was an emotional poster, has something to do with being a Piceses I suspect. )
Been reading the boards sporadically today and a little of my friends livejournals. And being in an oddly contemplative mood, I thought I'd offer the following food for thought.
It's frustrating to go online sometimes, isn't it?
People can be such jerks. It's almost as if they forget to edit themselves. They forget someone out there is reading what they put-out there, which is easy to do.
I admit, I vent a lot in my live journal and I usually warn my friends first. Or at least I hope so. ;-) I've also privatized some of the more depressive or ranty posts. And I'm sure some people have avoided befriending me because I discuss Spike a great deal.
Why do I discuss Spike? Because at this point in my life my interest in that character is helpful to my situation. I understand his situation and it is in an odd way helping me through my own. Purely metaphorical of course. I know he’s a fictional character. Had the same reaction to Buffy in S6, when S6 was on. I identified strongly with that character.
The people who don't care or don't like Spike may not see it, but there's more nasty anti-Spike sentiment on the posting boards right now. All of the non-charactercentric boards. That said, there’s an equal amount of anti-Buffy and anti-Angel sentiment. There’s one character centric board I had to stop reading b/c of the anti-Angel/anti-Buffy posts. The character of Spike is extraordinarly popular right now and perhaps that threatens people? Maybe not. But when you bash fans of that character and that character as well? Then you make yourself look like an idiot. You make yourself look worse than the person you are responding to. This goes for all character and fan bashing regardless of the subject. Some of the posts in response to the poster that people don't like are far worse and far more annoying than that person's original post. It's sort of like how people respond to trolls, by becoming trolls themselves. It's something I have personal experience with by the way, because it is what happened to me this summer, a certain poster pushed my buttons, didn't matter what s/he/it posted on - it pushed my buttons. S/he's tone and writing style for some reason seemed condescending, patronizing, overly moralistic and insulting to “me”. I could not read h/ir posts without seeing red. Without wanting to hit back at h/ir and anyone who supported h/ir. So I finally did everyone a favor and "stopped" reading them. I don't read h/ir and s/he does not read me. Life is good. ;-)
I struggled with that by the way. Because other people on the boards seemed to respond to this poster occasionally, some even like h/ir. I've had to accept the fact that just because I can't stand h/ir does not mean others should. I'm sure there's quite a few people out there who can't stand me. Fact of life, as much as I hate it, is not everyone is going to like you, or agree with you. Some people for reasons I’ll never understand, will in fact hate me. Personalities, interests, beliefs just occasionally clash – that’s life. Doesn’t make them evil doesn’t make me good. Doesn’t make me right or them wrong. Life isn’t black and white. Or morally unambiguous in that respect, no matter how much I wish it would be. The best I or anyone can hope for is tolerance. And tolerance is easier said than done. It's one of the reasons I really appreciate Masq, who runs the ATPO board, and how she moderates her board - she refuses to censor, she tolerates posts and views that may make her crazy. And I’ve seen several that must have driven her around the bend, if she read them. Because tolerating views, discussing them and trying not to hurt others is something I aspire to. Sometimes I succeed. Sometimes I don't. And since Masq continues to tolerate others views, I applaud her board and call it home, even when I want to hit some of the people on it.
There's a great post by morgrain on the boards right now, that unfortunately only people who are spoiled could read - but the gist is that redemption comes from giving up the "will", the selfish desire to push our way through life without caring who we stampede on. So I’ll repost the philosophy and kill the spoilers, because I think it’s important. But will hide for those who are terrified. It’s from Schopenhauer. And as one poster mentioned on the boards it is very similar to what Buffy did in Chosen when she finally defeated the First Evil.
“If I understand Schopenhauer, it is through compassion / empathy for the suffering of others that the acquires wisdom and becomes a sage. It is through the perfection of this wisdom that the sage is able to bring about salvation / redemption.
One of the cornerstones of Schopenhauer philosophy is that the will is the transcendent thing-in-itself: that is self-interest is curtailed through force of will [self-denial] for the sake of others. Injure no one; on the contrary, help others as much as possible. This is how redemption is possible.
The only purpose in life must be that of escaping the will and its painful strivings. Schopenhauer's concept contains the foundations of what in Freud became the concepts of the unconscious and the id, and the foundation of civilization: sublimation.
Is the Cup of Torment that Sirk alludes to, really Life itself and living it......
Schopenhauer was one of the first philosphers to speak of the suffering of the world, which visibly and glaringly surrounds us, and of the nature of confusion, passion, and evil.”
I think the hardest thing in our lives is to feel compassion for those we cannot abide. To let go of hate long enough to forgive and understand them and through that reach compassion. In order to accomplish it, you really have to let go of your own desires and your own will which in a way is what Buffy did in Chosen. In Chosen Buffy faced down her own will, her desires, her fears – faced them in the First Evil who kept repeating how Buffy was the “Chosen One”. Superior. By sharing the power, she ended the superiority.
This is a concept, I’m struggling with it a great deal right now. My pride, my desires, my fears all rolled up into one little bundle. But I keep chanting the same lines over and over to myself – thou shall do no harm. No matter what happens – thou shall do no harm. It’s why I left the evil company last year because I knew if I stayed another day, I would lose it and do harm, and it is why I briefly left the fanboards this summer – because I feared I would do harm. And it is why I avoid certain posts, because I fear I will give in to the urge to do harm. Yes, I believe we can wound with words. And I try hard not to. Nothing on a tv show is worth hurting someone else over. No character. No storyline. But is anything worth hurting another? Anything? I wonder. Peace, liberties, love, equality – all these things are worthwhile but are they worth picking up a gun, a machete, or a sword and killing? Don’t know. But I do know that my own petty concerns and frustrations aren’t worth hurting others over, no matter how tempting. Anywho…just some thoughts at 2 am, when I should be in bed.
As an aside, I’d like to take this opportunity thank my readers, the livejournal people who befriended me, who continue to read my mad late night ramblings, and have responded so kindly these past few weeks. As well as for their own inspiring posts and entries. I do read them, even if I don’t always comment on them. TCH, Ponygirl, oyceter and Rahael’s entries this past weekend made me smile when I came online wanting to scream. If I haven’t said it before, I’ll say it now – you guys and gals (all of you not just the one’s I named) have helped me stay sane these last few weeks. Helped me feel less alone and less frustrated. Given me a place to run to, when I wanted to scream like a banshee. Even if I never see you face to face or hear your voices, you have all made an impact on my heart. Thank you. In the midst of the hubbub of millions of voices, it’s wonderful to find a few wonderful friends. You are the “pros” of coming online and you and people like you are the reason I continue to put my words out there. In that one way, I identify with Buffy whose friends got her through hell and back. And I continue to marvel at the fact that a TV show, a small cult tv show that not many people watch, brought together such a warm loving interesting incredibly diverse group of people. Just think if it hadn’t been for Spike, Angel, Buffy, Willow, et all we may never have met. (Okay gushing over….but you knew I was an emotional poster, has something to do with being a Piceses I suspect. )
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About being a jerk . . .
Date: 2003-10-22 12:52 am (UTC)(This is assuming you can read anneth's entry in the first place. I just gave that link to anom, who pointed out to me that it's not a public posting, and I'm probably committing some faux pas by even mentioning it, for which I also apologize.)
Re: About being a jerk . . .
Date: 2003-10-22 08:23 am (UTC)I can't recall ever being offended by your comments on the boards, actually they've always made me laugh.
Nor would I describe you as anti-Spike in any way.
Perhaps it would help if I named some of the people who I feel seem overly obsessed with bashing the character?
Winter Witch, silveragent, Dandy (not anymore, s/he has lightened up considerably) Lunasea, Malandaza. I can't read these guys. That said? I've always enjoyed posts by Dochawk, Earl Allison, KdS (although I tend to avoid the Nikki threads), yabby, Scroll, Dlgood - none of which are really Spike fans. And we've had our skirmishes. I myself don't read and make a point of avoiding posts by Claudia, Rina, Spikelover, LeeAnn. I enjoy Rochefort who despises Angel with a vengeance but has a sense of humor about it. I tend to be snarky myself.
I've never found your posts in the least bit offensive.
And I do know that there have been times that I've overreacted to a post - and flew to the defense of a character, actually I've done it for just about every character but Andrew (on BTVS). I even defended Wood once. (shudder).
There are extremes. Some people on the boards act as if Angel was already redeemed and has never done anything wrong and Spike is completely evil. Others act as Spike is the wonderful hero and Angel is a patronizing bully. Then there are those of us who fall in between, who realize neither character is perfect and both have problems, that's what makes them interesting to us.
At any rate, thanks for the link. And no, you never offended me that I recall - (and I should since my Grandmother claims I have the memory of an elephant), hope I haven't offended you?
Thanks for the reply.
Re: About being a jerk . . .
Date: 2003-10-22 01:35 pm (UTC)Rochefort is one of the posters whose posts I can no longer read. What reads to you like a sense of humor comes across to me as complete disrespect and disdain. Laughter at the expense of a character and that character's fans. And no one calls Rochefort on this. I personally can not, because I can't hold down my anger and bile long enough to get out a semi-coherent, civilized response. And seeing everyone else laughing along with him only makes me want to find a safe place where my head can explode.
I can poke fun at Angel right along with the best of them. He's a dork sometimes, he's vain sometimes, he takes himself too seriously some times. And when I'm with fellow Angel fans, we make fun of Angel for these things.
But it feels very different, because we also talk about Angel's heroism, his compassion, his broodiness, his love, his pain. And that balance makes all the difference for me.
Interesting...
Date: 2003-10-22 01:55 pm (UTC)Re: Interesting...
Date: 2003-10-23 11:26 am (UTC)In it, I mention how we may perceive the same data completely differently. Masq can't stand Rochefort's posts. I can't stand Malandaza's.
I'm beginning to wonder if Mal deserves Roch,
Claudia and Lunasea certainly deserve each other. And it may very well be based on how we perceive something.
Should we outlaw everyone who offends someone? Like dentist jokes, lawyer jokes, racial jokes? Or just not read/ignore the ones that offend us? While possibly laughing at that which someone else may find offensive? Reminds me of political correctness.
Re: Interesting...
Date: 2003-10-23 12:43 pm (UTC)It's absurd.
That said, you know my policy on the board: free speech for the Rocheforts and Malandanzas and whomever else. If you don't like them, either don't read them, or respond to their claims with the most rational argument you've got.
Re: Interesting...
Date: 2003-10-23 12:33 pm (UTC)Not a biggie
Date: 2003-10-23 05:32 pm (UTC)Re: About being a jerk . . .
Date: 2003-10-22 02:33 pm (UTC)Re: About being a jerk . . .
Date: 2003-10-23 11:33 am (UTC)I admit, Roch made me laugh but not for the depiction of Angel (which was tasteless and made me cringe) but for the depiction of the cookie dough metaphor. Also it was a nice counter-point to Q and Malandaza. That said, I agree he's gone over-board. Hopefully he's calmed down. Last year, 2002, he bashed Spike and promoted Xander. Now he's into bashing Angel and promoting Spike. (shrug). Staying out of it is the best policy, I think.
Re: About being a jerk . . .
Date: 2003-10-23 12:29 pm (UTC)That was my thought as well. If Roche had "had fun" with Spike the way he did with Angel in that thread, the board would have gone into melt-down. But because it was Angel, it was "all in good fun! LOL!"
I saw red. I saw a lot of red. But Masq does not risk jumping down a poster's throat with a fist full of bile.
Re: About being a jerk . . .
Date: 2003-10-23 11:19 am (UTC)It's also exactly how I feel about Malandaza who does the same things Rochefort does but to Spike fans.
Thank you for pointing that out to me. It made feel a little ashamed, since I have laughed at him, not due to his description of Angel, (actually I thought that was tasteless) but his description of Buffy becoming a cookie.
That said - cjl pointed out to me recently that Rochefort had gone too far, and he was trying to gently nudge him back a bit. The next time he does that - I'll try to discourage him, I understand why you can't.
Re: About being a jerk . . .
Date: 2003-10-23 12:38 pm (UTC)Re: About being a jerk . . .
Date: 2003-10-23 11:19 pm (UTC)It is as ponygirl mentioned above, we all have quirky or different senses of humor. I don't find Andrew on Btvs funny at all, others loved him. (Some very good friends of mine loved him). Yet, I find wry wit or absurdist humor hilarous. The exchange between Gunn/Angel in the white room and Angel/Spike about poetry made me laugh out loud. Yet, Anya's inappropriate statements or Cordelia's lack of tact? Usually made me cringe. Spike's comments? Depends - some made me laugh out loud, others cringe. And I have encouraged Malandaza - his parody of the Lesbian Cliche in 2002 had me laughing, while it probably offended others. It was well written. But was it appropriate? Am I hypocritical in this? Maybe, not sure. But the realization has made me think about my responses online and made me glad that I've stopped reacting to people emotionally or reading posts that I know will elicit a negative emotion. I was very ashamed of my behavior on the boards in July and considered not coming back for a while. When I did return, I made the decision to discipline myself. Try to be cognizant of others feelings and not reacte online. Live journal is a way of handling that. I also felt much better when I made the decision not to respond to posts after they got too heated. Rendyl has a wonderful policy - don't continue a heated debate after three posts. I agree with that. Often we get trapped in the childhood game of "having the last word" - almost as if we are afraid (speaking generally here) that if we don't respond, it is taken as agreement. That the other party won. When actually all it means is that we aren't interested in continuing the debate.
Sometimes the best way of handling a conflict online is to walk away from it. It'll fall into archives soon enough and you won't find yourself typing something you regret. And let's face it we've all had moments when we've said or written things we regretted. I know I have. Open mouth insert foot - describes me all too well.
That was pretty
Date: 2003-10-22 04:02 am (UTC)And as to avoiding people who make you angry- it sounds like the best way.
TCH
no subject
Date: 2003-10-22 05:45 am (UTC)But views aren't static. And sometimes the same view is held by the same person for completely different reasons. And the debate shifts and everyone assumes a different position. Over the last year, I've gotten a little sick of having online friendships completely evaporate because of a tv episode/season/character. I value most those which withstand disagreement (especially when it's civilised and positive and thought provoking!). Of course, it's also because some of these friendships have something else in common apart from a stance on fandom.
I second all your remarks about Masq and the board. I first started hanging around when the first Buffycentric board I ever went to started dissing S6. Continually. And it wasn't the posters, it was the mods and senior ep reviewers. Every time I made a post about imagery or theme, I'd get ignored (I had more success on the Hero's journey and the self started thread on Wittgenstein). And then I realised that AtPO had everything and more. I liked the fact that I could defend S6, and yet read critical reviews that were thought provoking; opening up the debate rather than closing it down.
Anyway, I really like the fact that we've both ended up on LJ - I can remember welcoming you and your Giles as absent father essay to the board, all that time ago!
Thank you for yet another thoughtful post! I'm glad you're on LJ, and you show a remarkable and admirable degree of honesty. As one emotional poster to another, I really really identify with what you had to say, from the regrettable impulse to argue with people I realy really shouldnt, to the gushy appreciations of the people I feel privileged to know.
Hope you have a lovely day.
Thank you, views aren't static
Date: 2003-10-22 08:45 am (UTC)Exactly. I kept shifting my own opinions. I went from adoring the B/A ship in seasons 1-4, to despising it in S6-7. It's like the person I was in 1997-2000 somehow shifted.
And Spike? I went from not really caring to adoring the character in S5. Same with other characters on the shows. I also changed my mind on S6 which I loved during the Season but seem to struggle with now. S6 in some ways is my favorite and most painful season of television, which may explain why I wrote so much on it. S7 in contrast didn't work for me. I hope in time I'll change my views on that season as well. My reactions to things fluctuate.
I value most those which withstand disagreement (especially when it's civilised and positive and thought provoking!). Of course, it's also because some of these friendships have something else in common apart from a stance on fandom.
Yes, I've had the same experience. Online friendships can be so transistional at times. You'll be going along great, then whammo a wall of silence, no clue why the person stopped responding. One of the reasons I joined the live journal community was to see the posters who no longer posted as much on the fanboards and whom I missed. Anneth,
Masq, D'H, TCH, Aliera, Caroline, fresne, yourself. So thank you for welcoming me to both LJ and the ATPO board.
no subject
Date: 2003-10-22 05:51 am (UTC)However the good that hanging out online definitely outweighs the bad. Even the bad really isn't so bad, a little bit of anger puts a certain spring in the step, and sharpens the mind. The thing that I have to try to remind myself is that here we are getting so worked up over a piece of fiction, getting angry and passionate and consumed by art. Isn't that cool?
Ah not that much stronger ;-)
Date: 2003-10-22 08:55 am (UTC)The thing that I have to try to remind myself is that here we are getting so worked up over a piece of fiction, getting angry and passionate and consumed by art. Isn't that cool?
Yep, wicked cool! It amazes me sometimes how passionate I can get over a character or a piece of art. I remember wanting to scream at people who whined and complained about S6, which had been at one time my favorite season. Not so much now. I still enjoy the season, but with distance I see it's flaws. But it really connected with me - so that every complaint seemed like a personal assault. In time I realized they weren't. After all - sort of hard to assault me when they don't know me ;-). That doesn't change the emotional response though.
Re: Pros and Cons of Online Posting
Date: 2003-10-22 09:29 am (UTC)Thanks for the vote of confidence. And to keep that tolerant attitude, I've learned which posters to read and which not to. Ironically, I have an extremely low threshold for being "made crazy". It doesn't take much at all to send me running for my anxiety medication (so I'll blame it mostly on a medical condition). It seems strange to me that someone who can be driven around the bend so easily by certain points of view or debating styles should run a discussion board. But the rewards of it far outweigh the crazy-making angst.
BTW, thanks for quoting that Schopenhauer comment. I haven't read the spoilery thread, but you know me--if there's a way to take a philosophical angle on the show(s), I want to know about it. There could be some potential quotage in that post, and I'll make a note to save it for when it might be appropriate in my episode analyses.
Re: Pros and Cons of Online Posting
Date: 2003-10-22 09:55 am (UTC)Completely understand. That board has almost driven me insane a few times. I tend to be prone to anxiety attacks myself. (Hence the reason I can't drink coffee, take psuedophredrine, or any stimulant - already wired in that direction, thank you.)I really have to police myself sometimes.
BTW, thanks for quoting that Schopenhauer comment. I haven't read the spoilery thread, but you know me--if there's a way to take a philosophical angle on the show(s), I want to know about it.
You're very welcome. I was a tad annoyed at cjl and morgain for not doing it themselves. Since I had to spoil myself even more than I was to read the thread. Ugh. So I took out the philosophy bits because I hated the fact you guys couldn't see them.
Hang in there, luv!
Date: 2003-10-22 11:44 am (UTC)Caroline
Re: Hang in there, luv!
Date: 2003-10-23 11:27 pm (UTC)Compassion. Passion. Caritas
Date: 2003-10-22 04:38 pm (UTC)Nice. Very nice. This is sort of what I was trying to reach for in the discussion of Angel and saving women, mercy for the Other, but hadn’t quite distilled it into shape.
Fact of life, as much as I hate it, is not everyone is going to like you, or agree with you.
Really one of the more valuable things that my mother said to me growing up. Although, it also afforded a certain freedom. Since if not everyone likes me, I don’t have to like everyone. Merely, try and cobble along. Do no harm when harming is so very easy and self editing is so freaking hard. And sometimes the whole thing is like itching a scab. Scratching that poison oak only makes it spread. Dribble into the ear and poison sleep.
Makes me think of Bujold/Cordelia and Aral’s discussion of when she started seeing all of the soldiers as lambs. Then again, I’m in a Bujold frame of mind at the moment.
Re: Compassion. Passion. Caritas
Date: 2003-10-23 11:25 pm (UTC)Makes me think of Bujold/Cordelia and Aral’s discussion of when she started seeing all of the soldiers as lambs. Then again, I’m in a Bujold frame of mind at the moment.
Me too! Been interspersing Young Miles with two other books.
I like Bujold. She's not afraid of taking her characters to a dark place and pushing them through the worst to see if she can bring them out the other side. Cordelia in Bujold's Cordelia's Honor, remains one of my favorite heroines. I am also incredibly fond of Sgt. Bothari. Amazingly complex character.
Oh and I thought you expressed the need for compassion well in your analysis of Unleashed, I had the same difficulties with the episode. Although, I think Angel's need to find compassion for himself and others may be what his arc is about this season?
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Date: 2003-10-23 12:18 pm (UTC)And thanks for the summary of the Board post -- am currently not on spoilers right now (how amazing) so probably would have skipped it. And I love the idea of Buffy finally admitting her fear and her loneliness and eliminating it in the most empowering way she could think of in Chosen.