Doctor Who and Star Trek...compared
Nov. 3rd, 2015 09:47 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkatA while ago, I was asked what the US equivalent of Doctor Who was - basically a television serial that has a deep and insanely devoted fan base (assuming any other type of fan base exists), has existed a long time, most children grew up watching or know about, and was family centric? Also, deeply identified with the US culture, with lots of inside jokes or cultural items specific to the US? And was recognized on a national level by the originating country with either a holiday or something otherwise related?
That would be Star Trek.
[It should be noted at this point that even though we've passed the Children's Television Act, at least twice and updated it, the US like pretty much every other country around the world, has an odd view of what is definitively children's programming or educational programming. Or family fair. I honestly wouldn't consider either Doctor Who or Star Trek suitable for children under the age of 14, possibly 15, due to the violence and adult moral ambiguities. But apparently, network programmers disagree and think that anything that doesn't involve sexual content (obvious sexual content aka nudity, suggested is okay) and as long as the violence is either cheesy or not too graphic (ie. Walking Dead or Breaking Bad), it's fine for kids. Honestly, Supernatural and Buffy are weirdly promoted to tweens. As is the Vampire Diaries. I feel sorry for today's parents. No wonder my brother and co-workers only permit their kids to either watch reruns of old 1960s sitcoms or Nikoleodean. Even Disney is out at the moment. And forget about the Muppets.
That said? I watched Doctor Who, Star Trek, Space 1999, BattleStar Galatica, Lost in Space, Twilight Zone, the Outer Limits, Hill Street Blues, St. Elsewhere, Cheers, etc...when I was between the ages of 10-15...so...also read Rosemary Rodgers and Harold Robbins, amongst others, so...ahem, anyhow, I seemed to come out okay. It's not like there weren't violent shows when I was a kid way back in the 1970s and 1980s.]
In case you've been hiding under a rock or been out on a vision quest, and have no idea what these two pop culture icons are:
*Doctor Who is about an insanely intelligent but well-meaning white man with a British or Scottish accent who travels through space and time in a spaceship disguised as a British Phone Booth, solving various problems regardless of whether the people he meets wishes them to be resolved. He tends to look a bit scholarly, lean of build and not very muscular (well except for Tom Baker's verison, he might have been under the coat and scarf). Well dressed and seldom seen without his shirt on. His home base is the UK, and all of his companions (mainly female and usually between the ages of 20 and 30, incredibly pretty) and always come from the UK. Doctor Who represents an ancient race of superior immortal beings known as the Time Lords, and he instructs and aids various races he encounters, spreading freedom and justice along the way.
Star Trek is about a group of (well not necessarily insanely intelligent except possibly for Mr. Spock and Lt. Data) yet well-meaning people who travel through space and time in a spaceship, solving various problems regardless of whether the people they meet wish them to be resolved. Their home base appears to be the US, which is called the United Federation of Planets (the mere concept striking fear in the hearts of redneck Americans everywhere), and the people on the ship come from around the world and the universe- but speak American English and most likely immigrated to the US at some point. (It's rather interesting that two of the crew-members in the 1960s version hailed from Russia and I believe Japan - because at that time, Americans were prejudiced against Russians and Japanese and viewed them as the enemy. Roddenberry, the creator of Star Trek, was commenting on that. If you aren't American -- this may have gone over your head, actually if you weren't around in the 1960s-1980s it probably went over your head). At least two of the characters are female, and very attractive (one is black - which was a big deal back in the 1960s). The white guy leader, who is attractive and muscular, is from a farm in Iowa (good old boy). And often seen without his shirt on. (What can I say? The US is a bit more risque in this regard than its British forebears.) The best mate - or second in command - from another planet (and insanely intelligent but with no emotions). And the other team-mates from various locals around the globe. The heroes in Star Trek represent the United Federation of Planets and their goal is peaceful co-existence in the universe, and spreading freedom and justice along the way.
Star Trek was, like Doctor Who, aimed at families and most kids in the US have seen it or grew up with it. We even had a Saturday morning cartoon. Oh, and in regards to cultural icon and national attention, we named a space shuttle after the spaceship featured in the series. (The Enterprise).
Star Trek like Doctor Who also has an insanely devoted fan base --- which even has a name, Trekkies.
This fan base is so huge and devoted that it managed to keep show alive past its first expiration date, and get various movies, not mention a spin-off series made. And, an actual space shuttle named after the spaceship in the series. Now, that's devotion. Doctor Who also has an insanely devoted fanbase - who has accomplished a great deal. (I don't think the UK has space shuttles though, so no opportunity to call one the Tardis. Although not positive about that - learned today via Google that it does indeed have a space program - just not apparently a manned space program, so a bit less public than the US. I'm sure if it did have a manned and very public space program, it would name a space ship after the Tardis.)
While Doctor Who appears to be more focused on chasing cheesy monsters or scary fairy tale horrors much like its' sci-fi/fantasy forebears, Lost in Space, The Outer Limits and Twilight Zone which aired around the same time and started off in black and white. Star Trek, which premiered in technocolor, and a bit later in 1966, Doctor Who premiered in 1963, was more speculative science fiction - with stories written by sci-fi writers such as Harlan Ellison (The City on the Edge of Forever). I'm not sure I'd categorize Doctor Who as sci-fi, more science fiction/fantasy or horror, while Star Trek is science fiction and at times fell into hard science fiction. Note the Tardis is more magical in character, while the Enterprise is more realistic based.
In addition, both series have had rebirths. With large gaps in between series. Doctor Who had more longevity in the 1960s and 1970s. Then sort of disappeared for a bit. Star Trek lasted for three - four seasons in the late 1960s, early 1970s, before becoming an animated series for a bit in the early 70s. Then came back with a bit of a bang in the late 70s and early 80s, with various movies, before launching three new series - Star Trek Next Generation, Star Trek Deep Space Nine, and Star Trek Voyager in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Ending for a bit with Star Trek Enterprise and the flick Star Trek Nemesis in 2002 - until that is the Reboot happened in 2009. (Another similarity, Doctor Who had a long run in the 1960s-1970s, then went on hiatus for a bit, until the reboot happened somewhere around 2003, right around the time the Star Trek series and films ended. So both were rebooted with a lot of controversy. Old School Treks hate or tolerate the reboot, new Trekkies or people who never were really into Trek and were more Star Wars fans, love the reboot. Old School Doctor Who fans tolerate or are mildly entertained or hate the reboot by RT Davies and Moffat, while new school Doctor Who fans who either never saw the original series or never understood the appeal, love the reboot or have watched it. Fandom? It's the same no matter what the source, isn't it?)
Lately, Star Trek has been relegated to a movie franchise. But, not to fear, now there's a new Star Trek television series premiering next year - on CBS's subscriber only digital video network (whatever that is). Apparently they are using it to launch another video distribution channel, much like Voyager launched UPN. With just as much if not more controversy. Fans have already blasted CBS (who owns the rights to Star Trek at the moment) for doing it this way - stating they've ruined the series. And how dare they charge viewers to see the show on some digital subscriber based video channel that no one has heard of. (Can't say I disagree. I won't pay CBS to watch another iteration of Star Trek.) Although, I'm wondering if Doctor Who fans pay for it? I don't think so -- I think Doctor Who is on the BBC which isn't subscriber based. I admit that I know next to nothing about how the UK television system works, ours is confusing enough as it is.
That would be Star Trek.
[It should be noted at this point that even though we've passed the Children's Television Act, at least twice and updated it, the US like pretty much every other country around the world, has an odd view of what is definitively children's programming or educational programming. Or family fair. I honestly wouldn't consider either Doctor Who or Star Trek suitable for children under the age of 14, possibly 15, due to the violence and adult moral ambiguities. But apparently, network programmers disagree and think that anything that doesn't involve sexual content (obvious sexual content aka nudity, suggested is okay) and as long as the violence is either cheesy or not too graphic (ie. Walking Dead or Breaking Bad), it's fine for kids. Honestly, Supernatural and Buffy are weirdly promoted to tweens. As is the Vampire Diaries. I feel sorry for today's parents. No wonder my brother and co-workers only permit their kids to either watch reruns of old 1960s sitcoms or Nikoleodean. Even Disney is out at the moment. And forget about the Muppets.
That said? I watched Doctor Who, Star Trek, Space 1999, BattleStar Galatica, Lost in Space, Twilight Zone, the Outer Limits, Hill Street Blues, St. Elsewhere, Cheers, etc...when I was between the ages of 10-15...so...also read Rosemary Rodgers and Harold Robbins, amongst others, so...ahem, anyhow, I seemed to come out okay. It's not like there weren't violent shows when I was a kid way back in the 1970s and 1980s.]
In case you've been hiding under a rock or been out on a vision quest, and have no idea what these two pop culture icons are:
*Doctor Who is about an insanely intelligent but well-meaning white man with a British or Scottish accent who travels through space and time in a spaceship disguised as a British Phone Booth, solving various problems regardless of whether the people he meets wishes them to be resolved. He tends to look a bit scholarly, lean of build and not very muscular (well except for Tom Baker's verison, he might have been under the coat and scarf). Well dressed and seldom seen without his shirt on. His home base is the UK, and all of his companions (mainly female and usually between the ages of 20 and 30, incredibly pretty) and always come from the UK. Doctor Who represents an ancient race of superior immortal beings known as the Time Lords, and he instructs and aids various races he encounters, spreading freedom and justice along the way.
Star Trek is about a group of (well not necessarily insanely intelligent except possibly for Mr. Spock and Lt. Data) yet well-meaning people who travel through space and time in a spaceship, solving various problems regardless of whether the people they meet wish them to be resolved. Their home base appears to be the US, which is called the United Federation of Planets (the mere concept striking fear in the hearts of redneck Americans everywhere), and the people on the ship come from around the world and the universe- but speak American English and most likely immigrated to the US at some point. (It's rather interesting that two of the crew-members in the 1960s version hailed from Russia and I believe Japan - because at that time, Americans were prejudiced against Russians and Japanese and viewed them as the enemy. Roddenberry, the creator of Star Trek, was commenting on that. If you aren't American -- this may have gone over your head, actually if you weren't around in the 1960s-1980s it probably went over your head). At least two of the characters are female, and very attractive (one is black - which was a big deal back in the 1960s). The white guy leader, who is attractive and muscular, is from a farm in Iowa (good old boy). And often seen without his shirt on. (What can I say? The US is a bit more risque in this regard than its British forebears.) The best mate - or second in command - from another planet (and insanely intelligent but with no emotions). And the other team-mates from various locals around the globe. The heroes in Star Trek represent the United Federation of Planets and their goal is peaceful co-existence in the universe, and spreading freedom and justice along the way.
Star Trek was, like Doctor Who, aimed at families and most kids in the US have seen it or grew up with it. We even had a Saturday morning cartoon. Oh, and in regards to cultural icon and national attention, we named a space shuttle after the spaceship featured in the series. (The Enterprise).
Star Trek like Doctor Who also has an insanely devoted fan base --- which even has a name, Trekkies.
This fan base is so huge and devoted that it managed to keep show alive past its first expiration date, and get various movies, not mention a spin-off series made. And, an actual space shuttle named after the spaceship in the series. Now, that's devotion. Doctor Who also has an insanely devoted fanbase - who has accomplished a great deal. (I don't think the UK has space shuttles though, so no opportunity to call one the Tardis. Although not positive about that - learned today via Google that it does indeed have a space program - just not apparently a manned space program, so a bit less public than the US. I'm sure if it did have a manned and very public space program, it would name a space ship after the Tardis.)
While Doctor Who appears to be more focused on chasing cheesy monsters or scary fairy tale horrors much like its' sci-fi/fantasy forebears, Lost in Space, The Outer Limits and Twilight Zone which aired around the same time and started off in black and white. Star Trek, which premiered in technocolor, and a bit later in 1966, Doctor Who premiered in 1963, was more speculative science fiction - with stories written by sci-fi writers such as Harlan Ellison (The City on the Edge of Forever). I'm not sure I'd categorize Doctor Who as sci-fi, more science fiction/fantasy or horror, while Star Trek is science fiction and at times fell into hard science fiction. Note the Tardis is more magical in character, while the Enterprise is more realistic based.
In addition, both series have had rebirths. With large gaps in between series. Doctor Who had more longevity in the 1960s and 1970s. Then sort of disappeared for a bit. Star Trek lasted for three - four seasons in the late 1960s, early 1970s, before becoming an animated series for a bit in the early 70s. Then came back with a bit of a bang in the late 70s and early 80s, with various movies, before launching three new series - Star Trek Next Generation, Star Trek Deep Space Nine, and Star Trek Voyager in the late 1980s and early 1990s. Ending for a bit with Star Trek Enterprise and the flick Star Trek Nemesis in 2002 - until that is the Reboot happened in 2009. (Another similarity, Doctor Who had a long run in the 1960s-1970s, then went on hiatus for a bit, until the reboot happened somewhere around 2003, right around the time the Star Trek series and films ended. So both were rebooted with a lot of controversy. Old School Treks hate or tolerate the reboot, new Trekkies or people who never were really into Trek and were more Star Wars fans, love the reboot. Old School Doctor Who fans tolerate or are mildly entertained or hate the reboot by RT Davies and Moffat, while new school Doctor Who fans who either never saw the original series or never understood the appeal, love the reboot or have watched it. Fandom? It's the same no matter what the source, isn't it?)
Lately, Star Trek has been relegated to a movie franchise. But, not to fear, now there's a new Star Trek television series premiering next year - on CBS's subscriber only digital video network (whatever that is). Apparently they are using it to launch another video distribution channel, much like Voyager launched UPN. With just as much if not more controversy. Fans have already blasted CBS (who owns the rights to Star Trek at the moment) for doing it this way - stating they've ruined the series. And how dare they charge viewers to see the show on some digital subscriber based video channel that no one has heard of. (Can't say I disagree. I won't pay CBS to watch another iteration of Star Trek.) Although, I'm wondering if Doctor Who fans pay for it? I don't think so -- I think Doctor Who is on the BBC which isn't subscriber based. I admit that I know next to nothing about how the UK television system works, ours is confusing enough as it is.
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no subject
Date: 2015-11-04 03:39 am (UTC)I don't think I want to pay to see it either
no subject
Date: 2015-11-04 07:49 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-11-04 11:08 am (UTC)Well from what I remember growing up Dr Who ran right from the early 60's all the way through to the late 80's. The only break 'old Who' had was for a time during the Colin Bakers era where they tried to cancel the show, but due ti public opinion it was brought back. All within a year If I remember correctly.
no subject
Date: 2015-11-07 12:51 pm (UTC)General opinion in the UK:
(x)
;)
no subject
Date: 2015-11-07 06:34 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-11-07 08:54 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2015-11-14 02:42 pm (UTC)I read this post and thought of you:
Genre Competition (Kill the Moon)
It features Zygons too (in the latter half), but the Kill the Moon part beautifully illustrates one reason I reacted so badly against your labelling of Doctor Who as 'horror'. It's a genre the show employs, but not necessarily the main one, nor the most important one. :)
no subject
Date: 2015-11-15 01:30 am (UTC)I'm trying to reply without using huge typeface. But LJ won't let me. Something is wonky with the settings?(No it posted fine, just when I writing, odd.)Anyhow, I haven't watched Doctor Who in ages. The last episode I saw was four weeks ago. So...I have no idea what the writer is dicussing, haven't seen the episode in question. Don't know what Zygones are. Haven't seen anything since the second episode. And deleted the two that came after it.
I've lost interest in Doctor Who for some reason. I've no idea why. (shrugs)
The post you read, was my attempt to figure it out. But I watch horror series - so it clearly isn't because it has elements of horror (ie. scary monsters, ghosts, aliens, robots, hands coming up at the soil, etc). (Still loving 'Vampire Diaries' which is definitely horror.) And it's not because it is directed towards kids, although the episodes I've seen seem a bit old for the kiddies, but then I was watching Star Trek, Space 1999, Twilight Zone, Dark Shadows, and Night Gallery when I was 8.
Nor is it because it is particularly violent. Although maybe the type of violence is turning me off at the moment? (Don't know.)
I think it's the set up? (Episodic, with them solving a problem each week and fighting with the Master?) I don't know. My attention wanders when it's on. It just doesn't captivate me any longer. But then, I was hardly a die hard fan to begin with, and I don't know why that is either. (It may be that I had no real access to it growing up. It wasn't available where I lived. This was the 1970s, we didn't get British programing, except on Public Broadcasting Channel. If you lived on the east coast of the US - you saw Doctor Who, if you lived in the midwest, you didn't.)
no subject
Date: 2015-11-15 09:41 pm (UTC)So...I have no idea what the writer is dicussing, haven't seen the episode in question.
Well the first episode she discusses (Kill the Moon) was from last year. So I thought it might ring a bell. Anyway - the point was that Doctor Who uses any genre it likes. (Western? Sure. Heist? Why not.) Sometimes several within the same episode, like say Children's TV, Sci-fi, Fantasy & horror. The latter four being staples. :)
I've lost interest in Doctor Who for some reason. I've no idea why. (shrugs)
Well, if it doesn't work, it doesn't work. Could be the new Doctor, could be anything or nothing. Check back in a few years and see if you like it then?
no subject
Date: 2015-11-15 10:06 pm (UTC)