(no subject)
Oct. 20th, 2016 09:29 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkat1. I'm falling in fannish love for Joss Whedon again...weirdly. I've loved his last two interviews. And what he wrote on Tumblr about Hillary was wonderfully moving. The latest? This charming interview where he admits that he was a Buffy/Spike shipper all along.
I feel validated. Been arguing that for years with crazy Spike and Angel shippers.
Come on, people, Spike was a heck of a lot more fun for the writer to write, and he didn't have all that much involvement with the Angel series, that was Greenwalt and Minear's baby. It wasn't until the last two seasons that Whedon was heavily involved.
{Okay enough ego stroking. I figure no on has been reading this anyway, so it doesn't matter.)
2. Frequency is bugging me -- the time travel story line doesn't quite work. They have things change in the past, but the main character isn't really all that affected in the future, physically.
The main character hunts down this killer in the present, while her father hunts him in the past. He beats her up. She beats him up. And when she's about to kill him, he disappears, because he got hit by a bus in the past, while her Dad was chasing him. So he disappears, and she's still banged up from fighting him, and still remembers all of it.
She shouldn't be banged up at all. Since it didn't happen. Nor should she remember any of it. Because didn't happen. She didn't travel back in time. So what, is there some mystical bubble around her that enables her to remember one time line and be physically affected by it, as well as the other? Also other people should be positively and negatively affected in various ways not just the protagonist. There should be more of a ripple effect.
This is my problem with Time Travel stories...the science doesn't quite gell. Timeless' writers are doing a better job of it than Frequency.
Lastly, because I've seen a lot of people arguing about this online: Buffy/Spike or Buffy/Angel?
I’m a Buffy/Spike shipper. I always felt like he was a more evolved person, but that’s like saying Juliet’s going to be so happy with Benvolio and everyone will love it. Buffy/Angel is for the ages; Buffy/Spike is maybe for me. Actually, I’m a Spike/Angel shipper. Completely re-write the equation.
I feel validated. Been arguing that for years with crazy Spike and Angel shippers.
Come on, people, Spike was a heck of a lot more fun for the writer to write, and he didn't have all that much involvement with the Angel series, that was Greenwalt and Minear's baby. It wasn't until the last two seasons that Whedon was heavily involved.
{Okay enough ego stroking. I figure no on has been reading this anyway, so it doesn't matter.)
2. Frequency is bugging me -- the time travel story line doesn't quite work. They have things change in the past, but the main character isn't really all that affected in the future, physically.
The main character hunts down this killer in the present, while her father hunts him in the past. He beats her up. She beats him up. And when she's about to kill him, he disappears, because he got hit by a bus in the past, while her Dad was chasing him. So he disappears, and she's still banged up from fighting him, and still remembers all of it.
She shouldn't be banged up at all. Since it didn't happen. Nor should she remember any of it. Because didn't happen. She didn't travel back in time. So what, is there some mystical bubble around her that enables her to remember one time line and be physically affected by it, as well as the other? Also other people should be positively and negatively affected in various ways not just the protagonist. There should be more of a ripple effect.
This is my problem with Time Travel stories...the science doesn't quite gell. Timeless' writers are doing a better job of it than Frequency.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2016-10-21 04:16 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2016-10-21 10:01 pm (UTC)Didn't surprise me at all. I knew he was a Spangle shipper after Hole in the Wall in Angel S5, which he wrote and directed. Whedon was the one who decided to write in the subtext that the two guys may have been "intimate".
And he even stated they were in interviews.
I think from a writing perspective, they are a bit more interesting, because you have the rivalry, the brother relationship, the mentor father/son dynamic, and the history. A heck of a lot more to play with than with Bangle or Spuffy.
no subject
Date: 2016-10-26 10:21 pm (UTC)Anyway I'm not sure he will ever stop wanting to fuck with the fans heads.
Personally I think neither Spike; nor Angel was good for Buffy, which doesn't mean I think Faith would have been either. For me the whole 'baking' speech was so important; making me wish she'd made it back in S4/5, so that Riley could have stayed around as a friend.
I think I may be in a miniscule mnority on this though.
kerk
no subject
Date: 2016-10-27 01:47 am (UTC)What he says is:
I’m a Buffy/Spike shipper. I always felt like he was a more evolved person, but that’s like saying Juliet’s going to be so happy with Benvolio and everyone will love it.
In other words, "I was shipping against the network dictates and I knew it." That's what the last line regarding Benevolio refers too...he's admitting that he isn't really a Romeo and Juliet fan and B/A never interested him that much. (It's sort of obvious from the writing in both the comics and series, the writers go out of their way to show how the relationship is a non-starter. I was actually a B/A shipper until I get sick of being hammered in the head on the fact that it was not a workable ship by the writers in S3-S4). But what the hell. Keep in mind he doesn't own the rights to the story and other people were involved. Also he had to keep it going. So interviews before this point were catered to fans. Now he doesn't care what the shippers think -- because he's done with the story, has no rights to it, and no control over it. So can say whatever he frigging wants to without Fox or WB or whomever yelling at him about it.
Buffy/Angel is for the ages; Buffy/Spike is maybe for me.
The network loved Buffy/Angel, the mainstream loves Buffy/Angel. Whedon personally loved Buffy/Spike more.
Actually, I’m a Spike/Angel shipper. Completely re-write the equation.
But if push came to shove, he prefers Spike/Angel.
I don't think he's playing with fans heads. I don't think he cares what his fans think any longer -- he's moved past Buffy.
no subject
Date: 2016-10-27 04:54 am (UTC)I loved Cordelia, but I can't compare Charisma playing the role with others, because I've never seen any of her other roles. That said I thought she did some marvellous work on the show; even better on AtS; until the episode (whose name escapes me) where she gets 'demonised'. Totally agree about Cordy/Angel; never understood why that is a thing, but then I never saw any chemistry in Buffy/Angel either.
Loved seeing Spike in S5 of AtS at the time, but since I've come to deeply regret that the character didn't get the death he so dearly wanted, and deserved I think.
My feelings about Buffy herself have changed so much since the show aired. At the time I didn't really connect with her until S6; which I've not been able to watch any of since the tenth anniversary of Welcome to the Hellmouth. because it is so painfully real; too real for me because of many of the things that happen; not least the mutually abusive and self-destructive relationship between Buffy and Spike.
BtVS/AtS is a very unique show for me. Of the original characters I 've come to realise that I only actually liked Giles and Cordelia at the start; only liking Willow when she was with Oz & Tara (Kennedy I liked after I started reading her in fanfic), and Xander when he was with Cordy (especially) and with Anya - S7 is hard because I was still in so much pain over Tara, and probably, looking back, the trauma of S6 as a whole, but Buffy is the stand out of that season; so very good that Sarah Michelle Gellar almost saves the season for me. I can't think of a single show otherwise where I didn't really like any of the main characters; starting with S4 (with a handful of second half of S3 eps) because of Tara (her impending arrival, rather than the character, and Oz as the ones who got me watching, and kept me watching,
I'm always careful to keep the actors separate from the roles; especially where Tara/Amber Benson & Spike/James Marsters are concerned (having met Amber a couple of times, someone less like a character they played is hard to imagine), but I also have to keep my prejudices about soaps v. the rest of acting in check; so the comments about Sarah Michelle Gellar's experience in soaps are interesting.
I did not know, until very recently, about Joss' comments about the fans and the lesbian subtext of Faith/Buffy; which have reawakened my slight puzzlement at just not getting ANY of the m/m 'ships that are very popular, or having a desire to write them, but seeing so much to write in f/f ones. I'm sure it goes back to my youth, which has never truly gone away, when I felt I wanted to be a woman.
You're probably right about about Joss and BtVS; kinda wish he'd never continued on with the comics (until I think of Satsu; then I'm glad), though oddly because I REALLY didn't like what they did to Angel in the Buffy comics; bizarre when he was my least favourite character, even on his own show :-)
O the strange and tangled reasons we have for what we like and connect with. So much thinking to do.
kerk