So...the Tony's

[shadowkat]

Anyone watch the Tony's this year?

I taped it. So am watching now. Spacey's song and dance opening number was rather weak, but his impersonations of Johnny Carson and Bill Clinton were good.

Highlights, commentary...

* While I'm not interested in seeing the musical Dear Evan Hansen, I adore this song and performance. Found it...very relatable, which also reminded of a poem a college friend wrote and gave to me ages ago.

Watch on YouTube

A theme song for those of us who aren't mainstream, and far from so-called "normal",
who as my niece states...are weird but in a good way.

* I am however interested in Natasha, Pierre, and the Big Comet of 1865, which is adapted from 70 page snippet of War and Peace. It's a combination of musical styles that puts Hamiliton to shame -- rock, pop, folk, ballad, traditional Broadway.

And possibly...Bandstand for the dancing.

* But actually more intrigued by the plays, particularly Oslo - which is part thriller, about what it would be like to sit across the table from your enemy and see them as human being. It won best play.

* Bette Midler has had too much plastic surgery or botox. She can barely move her face and it looks like a weird mask. I really wish people would just let themselves age.
She could barely see, her lids were covering her eyes. They all have impossibly high cheekbones, clearly been face-lifted.

Hello Dolly didn't do much of a performance, because the Producer wanted to to it at the Shubert, film it, and show it on the screen at the Tony's. But the Tony's forbid it, so instead they had David Hyde Pierce sing a song that had been cut from he original (except I'm pretty certain it was in the movie). Was disappointing. If you have Bette Midler, why not show her?

That said? I wouldn't go to see Hello Dolly again just to see Bette Midler. I'm somewhat ambivalent about the musical and Midler. I've seen the musical twice, and recently, and read the original play, and seen the film version of it -- The Matchmaker.
It's not that interesting of a musical.

Comments

[yourlibrarian]

Your comment about Bette Midler reminded me of a conversation I think we had a while back about how unrecognizable a lot of actors make themselves with excessive plastic surgery. Just yesterday in line at the grocery I pointed out a cover to Mike of Olivia Newton John and asked "Would you have recognized her? She looks like Generic Blonde #3" Salma Hayek mentioned this in an interview on All Things Considered this weekend saying she was getting parts in her 50s because she hadn't had botox and she could actually play her age. I think the Brits do this much better, basically looking like, say, the best 60 year olds they can be rather than trying to look 30 at 60.

[shadowkat]

I was thinking of our conversation when I watched the Tony's and saw Bette Midler, who could barely move her face or see. It was so obvious she'd had plastic surgery.

Salma Hayek mentioned this in an interview on All Things Considered this weekend saying she was getting parts in her 50s because she hadn't had botox and she could actually play her age. I think the Brits do this much better, basically looking like, say, the best 60 year olds they can be rather than trying to look 30 at 60.

Agreed. They also get more roles as a result. I don't think Jessica Lange has had it done, although it looked like she might have when I last saw her. Not all of them have, but far too many. Even the men, as we discussed.

Dick Van Dyke said it recently in an interview -- that we live in a culture that is more afraid of "aging" than "death". And I think that's partly true. But at what cost? He's embraced it to a degree. But he's also very spry for his age. Not everyone is. And the industry is picky over looks.

[shadowkat]

Although I should add, Salma Hayek looks amazing...and not everyone does age that well. Jessica Lange had also looked amazing. And Streep (although I think she's had it done). And Helen Mirren.

It's easier, if you look great.

But there are actresses that don't and still get good roles, the actress who played the villain in Justified, Margo...can't remember her last name, but she won the emmy for that role. And has been in a lot of things since, comes to mind. She's an amazing character actress, who doesn't worry about it. Nor does Kathy Bates.

[yourlibrarian]

It's definitely easier if (a) you age well and (b) your career didn't rely heavily on your looks. For example, Meryl Streep has, in several recent roles, actually been altered to look worse than she does to fit the characters. Yet regardless of what she looked like you could be sure she would continue to be offered parts.

I actually think Helen Mirren looks at her best now, in that she outshines most women her age. She was obviously attractive when young but a lot of women are in that age. She didn't really stand out. And in truth I think in middle age she suffered from looking tired. But now, she's definitely a silver fox. Ellen Burstyn is another actress who was attractive when young but stood out as she got older. I think she was never prettier than in Divine Secrets of the Ya-Ya Sisterhood.

But yes, the pressure's on for everyone. I thought this was an interesting reference: http://pridesource.com/article.html?article=81749
http://pridesource.com/article.html?article=81749

[shadowkat]

Agreed. I think it does depend on the actress. Jessica Lang took off a bit, when she stopped being so "pretty". This was true with some men as well, Gregory Peck, Paul Newman, Robert Redford, Cary Grant started getting more interesting roles when they lost some of their "prettiness" and filled out a bit more. One of Peck's best roles was in The Boys From Berlin, where he plays the villain. They got to play character roles.

Sally Field also got some more interesting roles as she got older.

And some people age better than others.

Interesting reference to Sam Clafin, who is almost too pretty for his own good. And has to maintain it. (Didn't know he was gay, not that it matters. I've never cared that much one way or the other. But it is interesting that he can't get gay roles, while many straight actors do get gay roles, such as Guy Pierce. )

I would have preferred Sam Clafin in 50 Shades to Jamie Dorman, but that's just me. ;-D (50 Shades Darker is basically the American version of soft-core porn with a little plot. The French jumped way past us in the 1950s. They must be laughing at that film.)

[yourlibrarian]

I wasn't entirely clear that he was from the interview though it seems likely. But if he is, that does seem to be an interesting artifact of this particular time period. 20 years ago if he was willing to take such a part he would have been cast. Now that those have very little effect on future casting (unless one comes out) they're as competitive as any other where name recognition will likely carry the day.

Oh definitely -- well there's all sorts of cultures where 50 Shades just seems juvenile (including fandom!) But I'd rather have seen Clafin as well not only because Dornan has seemed wooden to me in everything I've seen him in but because I can't see him as anything but the serial killer after The Fall. Which was apparently what James was going for since she loved his The Fall performance :/

[shadowkat]

Dornan has seemed wooden to me in everything I've seen him in but because I can't see him as anything but the serial killer after The Fall. Which was apparently what James was going for since she loved his The Fall performance :/

Now, that's just disturbing. But having seen what she wrote from Grey's perspective...not surprised. (Didn't read it or buy it, just saw snippets of the sequel). Also, considering it sprouted from an Everybody is All Human AU Twilight Fic, with Edward (Robert Pattinson - whose also horribly stiff in everything he's in) in the Grey role and Bela in the Anastasia role...

I'd luckily not seen the Fall. So didn't have that on the brain. But he's horribly stiff. Nice body though.

I think 50 Shades wanted someone higher profile but couldn't get them. A lot of people turned them down. (gee can't think why?.) And Clafin may have seemed too...beta or nice, not wicked enough to the writer? (shrugs).

[yourlibrarian]

Yeah, I've never seen the appeal of Pattinson, clearly not my type. I also think if he had the chops he would have gone on to a bigger career. He was in two high profile franchises, people have managed to launch from less.

The Fall was a mixed issue for me. On the one hand, I hated the subject matter and couldn't see how anyone in his life didn't find his black hole emotionlessness creepy. But on the other I did like the writing and I liked the role for Gillian Anderson rather a lot. So I ended up watching all 3 seasons. I think they wrote themselves into a corner with it so the ending of the series was quite anticlimactic.

For 50 Shades I think fans clearly wanted someone with more charm, which is why Matt Bomer was who they were campaigning for (assuming Pattinson himself didn't take it). And they originally had Charlie Hunnan who was more of a middle ground (and also, given our earlier conversation, a sign of how casting people in gay roles had far less effect in the UK than US). But I don't see that 50 Shades has done anything for Dornan's career though it may have helped Dakota Johnson, who everyone seems to agree was the only redeeming part of the films.

[shadowkat]

Yeah, I've never seen the appeal of Pattinson, clearly not my type. I also think if he had the chops he would have gone on to a bigger career. He was in two high profile franchises, people have managed to launch from less.

Neither did I. And I tried to watch him in Water for Elephants, and gave up. Couldn't make it through the film. He's just not very good.

I think 50 Shades is more of a female movie, much like Twilight was -- and in both cases did a better job of launching the female lead. Kristen Stewart has done better than Pattinson for example. Which is why a lot of male actors, Matt Boomer, Charlie Hunan, and a few others ended up passing on it. Pattinson wouldn't touch it, he hated the Twilight films and felt they hurt rather than helped his career.

(Having watched the first two, I can understand why. Everyone seemed deeply stoned in those movies, it was very odd.)

I thought about The Fall, but I'm really NOT a fan of the serial killer trope. It's why I couldn't get into the fan favorite "Hannibal".

[yourlibrarian]

Yeah, I gathered it was well done (and also had Gillian Anderson!) but the subject matter was not something I thought I could forget about.

[shadowkat]

Exactly.

[shadowkat]

I wasn't entirely clear that he was from the interview though it seems likely.

Various comments he made seemed to indicate that he was. Or at the very least bi. But I may have misinterpreted.

[raincitygirl]

I have heard really excellent things about Oslo from my godparents, who go to New York once or twice a year from Amsterdam to visit relatives and take in Stateside culture. They stay at the Y to save money for theatre tickets (which seems to me eminently sensible and rational, although I've met people who think it's strange). My godmother said Oslo was spellbinding, and she's not one to throw around those kind of adjectives lightly.

[shadowkat]

Thanks, I was flirting with it yesterday. It is not cheap. Between $87-145. But alas, cheaper than Big Comet, which is $185-100 (sorry no.) The musicals that are big extravangazas, are expensive to produce and pricey. Which also makes their longevity short-lived unless of course they are Hamiltion.

I'm thinking Oslo (which is at Lincoln Center, so better seating) and Bandstand ($99)