(no subject)
Jun. 19th, 2017 09:32 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkat1. Can't decide if watching The Great British Baking Show is torturing myself or comforting myself. (Since I can't eat any of it or make it, on the other hand, it's on tv, so can't do it anyhow. I find cooking shows and demonstrations relaxing.) It's called Great British Baking Show in the US, not Bake-Off, because Pillsbury has trade-marked Bake-Off in the US, and they'd have to pay Pillsbury royalties for its use.
Don't you love Intellectual Property Law?
Oh, speaking of trade-mark law, the US Supreme Court ruled in favor of trademarking politically incorrect or offensive trademarks. Such as "The Redskins" - baseball team wanting to copyright their name. (I actually agree with this -- freedom of speech. I think all speech should be permitted. If we prohibit one type, we risk prohibiting others.)
2. I'm putting off watching the second season of Sense8 until the weekend. It's hard to stop watching. That's how compelling it is. Wish it wasn't cancelled, I drug my feet on watching it, because it was and it had allegedly ended on a cliff-hanger.
(So I looked up information on it -- to ensure the Whispers/Will issue was resolved.)
I can see why it was -- very expensive series to produce. $4 Million per episode. And, it took two years for the second season to air after the first. That's a large gap to retain cast and audience. They already had to recast one of the cast members.
It's a shame, because this series is possibly the only sci-fi series on television that has a strong message of love, unity, empathy and kindness behind it. It's also by far the best written and produced. Most sci-fi television series, let's face it, are a bit of a mess. You have to be a bit tolerant of well messy writing, to be a genre television fan.
Hmm...best written and most innovative sci-fi series that I can think of and have watched?
* Farscape
* Star Trek the Next Generation
* Babylon5
* BattleStar Galatica (v.2)
* Lost
And Sense8 is very different from all of them. It really is a unique take on the television serial. Reminds me a little of Game of Thrones in the multiple character point of views and multiple location shots, with a large diverse cast. I'd say it is a lot better than GoT - the writing is more nuanced, it's less violent, the message is more positive, it flips gender and takes more risks.
It is however difficult to rec to people, because of the explicit sexual content and the type of sexual content - group orgies, homosexual sex, and explicit. Didn't bother me, but most of the people I know wouldn't be able to watch it. My parents -- no. My coworkers -- no. Shame. Again I ask the question, why as a culture are we more comfortable with graphic violence, shoot-outs, screaming hate, and fight scenes, then watching two people making love to one another? It boggles my mind that people have no problems watching someone stab someone but can't watch a sex scene, regardless of the genders involved.
Sense8 to be fair has a lot of graphic violence as well. Although it's fairly tame in contrast to the other sci-fi series I've seen. And no where near as violent as well, GoT, Walking Dead, American Gods, Supernatural...so.
I think it took some insane risks. The Wachowskis and the creator of Bab5, wanted to do something no one else had done before. Something that changed the boundaries of television like the Matrix did with film. Which is ambitious. There's 450 scripted television series.
If it weren't for subscription channels like Netflix, Sense8 would never have been made. HBO passed on it, as did Showtime.
3. Character Shipping or rather "Anti-Shipping" in Fandom
There's nothing more off-putting than someone seriously anti-shipping a character you happen to enjoy or find interesting. And people are oddly hypocritical about it. Now, to be fair, I've despised characters on television shows and books that others loved. Although I prefer not to talk about them too much. Also, usually they are supporting or just recurring characters, or I would not be watching the show or reading the book any longer. If the characters don't work for me, I'm gone. Seriously life is too short.
Like on Buffy, I disliked Andrew, which it turned out wasn't a big problem. I could ignore the characters for the most part.
Or on Lost...well there wasn't any characters I disliked. A rarity. Same with BSG, no characters I disliked.
In the X-men? I liked all the characters.
Doctor Who? Can't remember disliking any character intensely.
But the fandom? Oh dear.
Apparently in X-men, the most hated hated character happens to be my favorite. Which is annoying and why I steered clear.
Doctor Who? one of the most despised characters is among my favorites. So steered clear.
Buffy? It was difficult, for the most part I loved all the characters (except for Andrew), and many fans hated at least one of my favorites. And by hated -- they felt the need to rant, and yell about them.
Don't you love Intellectual Property Law?
Oh, speaking of trade-mark law, the US Supreme Court ruled in favor of trademarking politically incorrect or offensive trademarks. Such as "The Redskins" - baseball team wanting to copyright their name. (I actually agree with this -- freedom of speech. I think all speech should be permitted. If we prohibit one type, we risk prohibiting others.)
2. I'm putting off watching the second season of Sense8 until the weekend. It's hard to stop watching. That's how compelling it is. Wish it wasn't cancelled, I drug my feet on watching it, because it was and it had allegedly ended on a cliff-hanger.
(So I looked up information on it -- to ensure the Whispers/Will issue was resolved.)
I can see why it was -- very expensive series to produce. $4 Million per episode. And, it took two years for the second season to air after the first. That's a large gap to retain cast and audience. They already had to recast one of the cast members.
It's a shame, because this series is possibly the only sci-fi series on television that has a strong message of love, unity, empathy and kindness behind it. It's also by far the best written and produced. Most sci-fi television series, let's face it, are a bit of a mess. You have to be a bit tolerant of well messy writing, to be a genre television fan.
Hmm...best written and most innovative sci-fi series that I can think of and have watched?
* Farscape
* Star Trek the Next Generation
* Babylon5
* BattleStar Galatica (v.2)
* Lost
And Sense8 is very different from all of them. It really is a unique take on the television serial. Reminds me a little of Game of Thrones in the multiple character point of views and multiple location shots, with a large diverse cast. I'd say it is a lot better than GoT - the writing is more nuanced, it's less violent, the message is more positive, it flips gender and takes more risks.
It is however difficult to rec to people, because of the explicit sexual content and the type of sexual content - group orgies, homosexual sex, and explicit. Didn't bother me, but most of the people I know wouldn't be able to watch it. My parents -- no. My coworkers -- no. Shame. Again I ask the question, why as a culture are we more comfortable with graphic violence, shoot-outs, screaming hate, and fight scenes, then watching two people making love to one another? It boggles my mind that people have no problems watching someone stab someone but can't watch a sex scene, regardless of the genders involved.
Sense8 to be fair has a lot of graphic violence as well. Although it's fairly tame in contrast to the other sci-fi series I've seen. And no where near as violent as well, GoT, Walking Dead, American Gods, Supernatural...so.
I think it took some insane risks. The Wachowskis and the creator of Bab5, wanted to do something no one else had done before. Something that changed the boundaries of television like the Matrix did with film. Which is ambitious. There's 450 scripted television series.
If it weren't for subscription channels like Netflix, Sense8 would never have been made. HBO passed on it, as did Showtime.
3. Character Shipping or rather "Anti-Shipping" in Fandom
There's nothing more off-putting than someone seriously anti-shipping a character you happen to enjoy or find interesting. And people are oddly hypocritical about it. Now, to be fair, I've despised characters on television shows and books that others loved. Although I prefer not to talk about them too much. Also, usually they are supporting or just recurring characters, or I would not be watching the show or reading the book any longer. If the characters don't work for me, I'm gone. Seriously life is too short.
Like on Buffy, I disliked Andrew, which it turned out wasn't a big problem. I could ignore the characters for the most part.
Or on Lost...well there wasn't any characters I disliked. A rarity. Same with BSG, no characters I disliked.
In the X-men? I liked all the characters.
Doctor Who? Can't remember disliking any character intensely.
But the fandom? Oh dear.
Apparently in X-men, the most hated hated character happens to be my favorite. Which is annoying and why I steered clear.
Doctor Who? one of the most despised characters is among my favorites. So steered clear.
Buffy? It was difficult, for the most part I loved all the characters (except for Andrew), and many fans hated at least one of my favorites. And by hated -- they felt the need to rant, and yell about them.
no subject
Date: 2017-06-20 01:26 pm (UTC)It's a competition, yet you frequently see contestants helping one another, you see Mel and Sue offering a hand to support things or provide a shoulder to lean on or advice. I'm watching an episode, the husband will come in, sit down, be all set to ignore it -- and then I'll hear, "That's not going to get finished," and I know he's gotten sucked in. There's no "villain," no "alliances" and while I know they edit things for the most dramatic effect, it's not highly manufactured drama like most reality shows. Great end of the week viewing for me.
As for Anti-Shipping, I'm with you. Never saw the reason to yell from the rooftops why I despise a character, especially in a group where I know some folks may like them. As you said, life's too short. A series, a character is that annoying? I'm on to something else.
no subject
Date: 2017-06-20 01:57 pm (UTC)It's a competition, yet you frequently see contestants helping one another, you see Mel and Sue offering a hand to support things or provide a shoulder to lean on or advice. I'm watching an episode, the husband will come in, sit down, be all set to ignore it -- and then I'll hear, "That's not going to get finished," and I know he's gotten sucked in. There's no "villain," no "alliances" and while I know they edit things for the most dramatic effect, it's not highly manufactured drama like most reality shows.
Exactly. It's the anti-reality show. Became so popular, they keep doing an American version, trying the same format.
I love how kind everyone is to each other. No back-biting. When one woman was about to cry, the guy behind her, kindly told her not to worry, she'd be okay. And in one episode, one of the contestants that was done came over and helped another contestant. Then another one came over to help as well.
And I adore the hosts, who lighten things and are kind to everyone. It's the only reality series I can watch any longer.
And I want to see if they can get it to work. It's just comforting.
Never saw the reason to yell from the rooftops why I despise a character, especially in a group where I know some folks may like them. As you said, life's too short. A series, a character is that annoying? I'm on to something else.
I get being upset for a bit. But to continue....when I realize something isn't working for me, and that won't change, I stop reading, watching, etc.
Also, people see things differently. There's been characters I've despised, but I can see why they might appeal to someone else. Why rain on their love? What can be gained? You can't change their mind? It doesn't help and just makes me miserable whenever I've tried that.
It happens a lot in serial cult fandoms online, or so I've discovered.
no subject
Date: 2017-06-20 08:15 pm (UTC)What tv show would depict a realtionship like Lito/hernando/dani?
I recced it to everybody I knew, including my boss, who became totally addicted.
I agree with you that the fact that the sex shown on the show is more of a tabu than massive and sexualized violence , is a major problem in our societies. The sexualized violence on GoT is fine, because realism, but we can't have someone enjoying sex with multiple people, that would be wrong.
There is something deeply wrong with that value system. And I don't even want to bash GoT. It's more that enjoyable consensual sex is so impossible to just accept in this prude mindset.
btw. they did a two hour christmas special between the seasons, so at least we did not have to wait two full years.
no subject
Date: 2017-06-20 10:16 pm (UTC)I agree with you that the fact that the sex shown on the show is more of a tabu than massive and sexualized violence , is a major problem in our societies. The sexualized violence on GoT is fine, because realism, but we can't have someone enjoying sex with multiple people, that would be wrong.
I had this discussion with the co-worker who has loaned me sci-fi books. He hadn't heard of it. So I described it to him, told him that it is hard to rec, because of the explicit sex.
Co-worker: Sounds right up my alley.
Me: There is violence, but not so much, just explicit sex, but it's actually beautifully done. But it is LGBT (he looks puzzled), gay and lesbian..
Co-worker: that doesn't bother me
Me: Me neither. And not really as much violence. It's there but not...as intense.
Co-worker: Oh I'd prefer this, I would rather watch the sex than the violence. I don't understand why people prefer the violence.
Me: Yeah, American Gods and Game of Thrones...with the poked out eyes -
Co-worker: the chopped off heads, the chopped off arms
Me: Being burned alive...but sex?
Co-worker: they can't handle. It makes no sense. None at all. And it's so sad.
The problem I have is we justify sexualized violence and torture on television series as realism, but criticize a show like say Sense8 as being pornographic. My cousin would have her teens watch GoT but not Sense8. And then we turn around and wonder why our culture has so much rape, violence, and bullying? It would be one thing if it was just GoT, but right now almost every critically acclaimed fantasy/adventure series does...GoT, Preacher, Breaking Bad, Better Call Saul, American Gods, Outlander, The Walking Dead, Daredevil, Alias Jessica Jones, Stranger Things, 13 Reasons Why, the list is endless. I mean, you know there's a problem when you consider Sense8 or Supernatural or Lucifier or the violence in say one of the superhero shows not that big a deal. Because hey, at least you aren't watching someone have their eyes poked out or being beaten to death or gang raped or have their arm chopped off every episode. The television series GoT is more violent, sexually and otherwise than the books were.
It's gotten so bad that I had to stop watching some of these things or don't any longer. It was such a relief to find a science fiction series that didn't have that level of explicit and graphic violence.
no subject
Date: 2017-06-21 03:55 am (UTC)This limits my tv time to when he's asleep and honstly there are so many other things to do that I do not watch tv so much then.
Occasionally I watch an episode of something when he's awake, but stuff with explicit violence is completely out of question. Sense 8 though, that was pretty much unproblematic. The few ugly scenes I could just skip.
I really would have liked to watch American Gods but I never got past episode 3 because I was annoyed by all the blood. It is really getting out of hand. I'm really looking forward to the new Star Trek, and if they manage to turn even that into a bloodfest I will be very angry.
no subject
Date: 2017-06-20 10:36 pm (UTC)So am I. And I haven't even watched all of S2 yet. I've seen up to and including The Christmas Episode. I wanted to yell at Netflix for renewing that horrific 13 Reasons Why and canceling the beautiful Sense8. (Apparently I'm not alone, a lot of people wanted to do the same thing.)
Discussed this with my co-worker, and we both understood why. It's wickedly expensive. And they took too long. By the time the second season aired, the entire cast's contracts had to be renewed. And many of them may have gotten new roles elsewhere. They'd gotten all of the leads, but not all of the supporting. And, there were issues with the Wachowski's apparently...one had to drop out which caused production delays.
It also just did not have the audience to support the amount of money it cost to produce.
Still annoys me to no end. Because I want more shows like Sense8.
What tv show would depict a realtionship like Lito/hernando/dani?
I loved that and it totally surprised me. It subverted the "Three's Company" trope or the usual trope.
There is something deeply wrong with that value system. And I don't even want to bash GoT. It's more that enjoyable consensual sex is so impossible to just accept in this prude mindset.
Completely agree. I should not be embarrassed to talk about or rave about this show to people at work. Unfortunately, I have to be careful at work -- I have several co-workers who are homophobes, including my boss. I don't understand homophobia, it makes no sense to me. And I don't understand why heterosexuals can only watch sex that interests them. I've never understood it. But, I have to be careful...I've gotten myself into trouble in the past.
Our society is rather sick. It values the wrong things. One of the themes of Sense8 is how technology has affected empathy and how people block empathy or turn it off, and what that does to us. The story of Sense8 is also strongly resonating with me at the moment -- because it fits with a philosophy that I've been studying -- by Fred Newman, about developing and creating ourselves and not diagnosing or putting ourselves into categories, jumping past the idea of "identity" and allowing ourselves to be.
no subject
Date: 2017-06-21 04:04 am (UTC)And they don't. A lot of them love gay scenes with the opposite gender in porn. But they only like it as kink for them. God forbid gay people enjoy their own sexuality.
because it fits with a philosophy that I've been studying -- by Fred Newman, about developing and creating ourselves and not diagnosing or putting ourselves into categories, jumping past the idea of "identity" and allowing ourselves to be.
I'm also reading about that topic at the moment. More from a political perspective than a personal one, but I find it very interesting. About how identity politics is damaging the left and I do not find it wholly unconvincing. Also I am starting to understand why the hardcore right in Europe these days are calling themselves "Generation Identity" these days.
Moving past identity will have to happen in many liberal movements or we will see another surge of the extreme right soon.
If you want, I can link you the article. The author was heavily criticized when he wrote in 2013, but I find he has a lot of important true things to say.
no subject
Date: 2017-06-21 01:41 pm (UTC)And they don't. A lot of them love gay scenes with the opposite gender in porn. But they only like it as kink for them. God forbid gay people enjoy their own sexuality.
Very true. Seen this a lot. Actually Sense8 sort of comments on it with both Bug - in being turned on by Naomi and Alameta, and Dani, being turned on by Hernando and Leto.
I saw the sex in Sense8 as not pornographic but necessary. It's not gratuitous sex or used to titillate, but to further plot and character and theme. To get across the idea of playfulness and true intimacy.
There's a great scene in the Christmas episode that examines how it can be viewed, either as porn to turn someone on or laugh at, or the reflection of something beautiful. It should be private, so it comments on privacy as well, and whether Dani should have taken photos, which she did for her own entertainment and the morality of that.
It doesn't provide any answers...really, just shows the consequences of doing it.
More from a political perspective than a personal one, but I find it very interesting. About how identity politics is damaging the left and I do not find it wholly unconvincing. Also I am starting to understand why the hardcore right in Europe these days are calling themselves "Generation Identity" these days.
Moving past identity will have to happen in many liberal movements or we will see another surge of the extreme right soon.
The difficulty is neither side is moving past it. The extreme right uses identity politics to isolate and discriminate against people. It uses labels and categories to judge and condemn. And separates people into the "Other". Sense8 actually comments on that in the two hour Christmas Episode -- showing all the names people call one another to condemn them : virgin, slut, faggot, etc....
The left sort of has to address and campaign with identity politics, because the right has used it for years to discriminate and profile them. If cops didn't stop black men over white, and didn't make a point of it of assuming if a man is black, he's automatically a criminal and has a gun -- we wouldn't need a black lives matter campaign. When one side is categorizing you and using that as a weapon against you...then you have not choice but to defend that category.
What needs to happen is to get across to the other side that their inability to see past identity, to stop seeing just that, and demonizing people on that basis...is what is holding us all back. It's why we have wars, terrorism.
That's what Newman appears to be stating at any rate. That making "identity" a problem that needs to be resolved. Or judging people based on some imposed category, that may even be arbitrary, stops human development, stops creation.
It reminds me a little of the Buffy episode Restless, Buffy's Dream, where Whedon makes a point of saying how silly it is to label things and how limiting, with Riley needing to find names for everything but unable to pigeon hole Buffy -- so he takes off confused.
no subject
Date: 2017-06-22 04:31 am (UTC)To me that is the opposite of porn, because it gives the characters agency.
The problem I have with most porn is not the sex, or that people feel stimulated by it, its the dehumanisation. And Sense 8 does the complete opposite. Which in this day and age is borderline revolutionary.
It's hard to explain...so not sure that made sense.
I think what you wrote makes a lot of sense. And I completely agree. The ultimate goal must be to rid people of labels but on the way there we'll have to take them into account.
There is another side to it, though. A moralizing component in identity politics that cripples the left and provokes a lot of in-fighting.
I'm not sure I'm clear but I can give an example from recent politics in Austria: A socialist local politician made a deriding comment about a conservative women. It was slightly lewd (something like oh, she, that kind of women used to forget their Burberry shawls in my appartment, in my revolutionary hay day). A massive shit storm broke lose. Completely ignoring that politically he had not acted misogynist over his carreer, ignoring that he apologized, just blind moralist rage.
Thing is, we have politicians, especially on the right, that say much worse things on a daily basis, but they don't get criticized like that, simply because everybody knows it is futile, because they just are hardcore misogynists.
In cases like these (and there are plenty of them) I feel a bullying vibe, where I identity politics just picks an easy target and goes on a moralist rampage, instead of taking it with someone their size on the other side of the isle (and usually way worse behaved).
These attempts to completetly morally cleanse the left are doomed. They led to the Clinton/Sanders devide that brought us Donald Trump.
It reminds me of the quote from Kurt vonneguts rules of storytelling. "Write for one person only, if you open the windows to the world, your story will get pneumonia." I think that is also true for political naratives. It creates a stifling atmposphere, where people desperately try to appeal to different identity groups instead of acting with true and individual empathy.
uhm...I don't know if that made sense either. I'm only just scratching the surface of the issue, mayself.
no subject
Date: 2017-06-22 12:43 pm (UTC)This makes a lot of sense. And you've managed to address several issues that I've been struggling to articulate.
To me that is the opposite of porn, because it gives the characters agency.
The problem I have with most porn is not the sex, or that people feel stimulated by it, its the dehumanisation. And Sense 8 does the complete opposite. Which in this day and age is borderline revolutionary.
I'd agree. In porn, there's relatively little plot or none at all, no character development outside of archetypes or tropes, and often one or the other is objectified. It's okay to an extent...ie to titilliate, but when taken too far it dehumanizes and results in well behavior that is sexist and demeaning. Whenever you dehumanize someone, you block empathy and desentize yourself and others to any horrors done to them.
Also sex with another person-- that is devoid of "feeling" and/or "intimacy" tends to be aggressive, cruel, competitive, and often painful in the long term if not the short term. It rarely satisfies. And porn can often lead to that type of sex.
. It creates a stifling atmposphere, where people desperately try to appeal to different identity groups instead of acting with true and individual empathy.
I agree with everything you stated above. Seen it happen a lot in the last few years. Where identity politics is used as a moral weapon to denounce an opponent or to twist something they said, which meant one thing in context, but out of context is demeaning and cruel.
Seen people do this a lot in fandom. In which they'll grab a sentence or a word and condemn a 500 word or ten page essay based on that alone. Shows an inability to grasp contextual meaning of words. I often blasted them for it, by reposting the entire paragraph. Annoyed the heck out of me. They will also do that with stories or characters, take one action, bit of dialogue or scene, pull it out of context, and condemn the whole thing. People online did that with Whedon's Wonder Woman script, missing subtext, etc, and nitpicking at bits and pieces here and there -- also ignoring the fact that it was rough.
Yesterday was reading a Wiki entry on Fred Newman, who is Jewish, but got into trouble and accused of Anti-Semitism for writing a series of plays that were a critique of the Zionist movement in Israel. Identity politics used as a weapon to quell criticism. I've seen this done a great deal.
And the Sanders/Clinton divide is an excellent example. Sanders supporters utilized negative rhetoric from the Right to denounce Clinton. To the degree that I found I could not abide Sanders. And saw his supporters as sexist and misogynistic. They weren't. Not really. But they used the wrong rhetoric and didn't delve deeply enough into the facts. They also utilized negative campaign techniques that were being used by the opposite side...instead of focusing on the issues. If they'd focused on the issues and less on bashing the other candidates, like Trump was doing, they may have won. Instead they alienated people.
Too often "moralizing about identity politics" has been used as a weapon to denounce or undermine the other side. It's been used a lot in the US and often to detrimental effect. Also, in most cases those who do it, are guilty, possibly more guilty of it than those they've accused.
no subject
Date: 2017-06-23 08:15 am (UTC)And I think the uncompromising mentality of shipper wars and so on has sipped into leftwing politics. This sense of "have completely the same opinion as I do or be my enemy". No middle ground.
And there is a lot of cowardice in that, of course it is easier to attack someone of racism, misogyny and so on, who actually cares about that thing. But people harp on some people, who made a small mistake in wording or something like that, while they silently condemn the true hatefilled white male supremacist trolls, without engaging them.
This makes it impossible to form a strong movement. For that people need to lift each other up internally and put their aggression into the fight against the actual other side.
I do think though that the renewed oppression vis Trump is going to stop the infighting on the left. It is horrible though, how much suffering is necessary for that to happen.
no subject
Date: 2017-06-23 02:16 pm (UTC)I wonder sometimes if it isn't so much fandom but the internet. People for some reason or other are more prone to say things that they wouldn't face to face.
And often over-react to innocent comments. I got attacked for using the word gypped once. It was completely innocent. As a result, I worked hard to remember to use a substitute or synonym. Such as swindled.
Politics was always nasty, but being able to spread information like wildfire across the world had made it lethal.
This makes it impossible to form a strong movement. For that people need to lift each other up internally and put their aggression into the fight against the actual other side.
I do think though that the renewed oppression vis Trump is going to stop the infighting on the left. It is horrible though, how much suffering is necessary for that to happen.
This has been gradually happening. I'm thinking that a lot of the voters who voted against Hillary and Trump are realizing they have to reach across to the Hillary supporters and vice versa. It's no longer about the candidates, it's about the issues. The problem with the US elections is they are about the "candidates" not the issues. And often the issues get lost. People end up voting against their own views, because they get caught up in the political rhetoric.
no subject
Date: 2017-06-21 01:43 pm (UTC)It's hard to explain...so not sure that made sense.
no subject
Date: 2017-07-11 11:03 pm (UTC)no subject
Date: 2017-07-12 02:26 am (UTC)[ETA: Ah, went back and read the initial post...the character the fandom seemed to despise in my neck of the woods, was River Song. Who I adored. They felt she ruined the series, personally I thought she made the series more relateable and palatable. So we were sort of at odds. To be fair, the anti-Song group were mostly the Rose/Doctor shippers. And since I was ambivalent towards Rose and shipping the Doctor with the companions, this was hard for me to understand. I honestly don't think a romantic relationship works well between the Doctor and his companions, feels too uneven somehow. Also a lot of fans seemed to dislike Amy, who I also adored and was among my favorites, as was Martha Jones. But again, I wasn't shipping Rose and skipped over most of that arc. The Lonely God bit that RT Davies played with, also got on my nerves. That.. put me at odds with a lot of fans of the reboot, I think.]