GoT - to S7 - Episode 5

[shadowkat]

All caught up on Game of Thrones now..just a few things or questions/answers really...



1. So, the nasty writers lob out via Gilly, that Septon Maynard acquired an annulment for Prince Rheagar to marry someone else...but Samwell ignores it and rants about not being able to do anything? And Sam then steals a bunch of books and heads towards Jon Snow. (I really hope they took that book. Because I think it may be proof that Jon Snow is really Jon Tarragyne. He certainly has an affinity for dragons)

2. People seem to travel around faster with less problems this season, don't they? Certainly quicker than the books.

3. So, does Cersei believe the Wight Walkers exist or just not care? I'm thinking the latter. She's not taking them seriously. Any more than Sansa or Littlefinger or Ayra are.

4. Rumor has it Bran may turn out to be the Night King...or turn into the Night King due to a warg gone wrong? There's certainly hints.

5. Okay, the only ruler that I like at the moment is Jon Snow. I'm sort of in agreement with Varys and Tyrion regarding Danerys. There were other options. Instead she chose to follow in the Queen of Thorns footsteps, as opposed to Jon Snow's.

6. Is Little Finger on Ayra's list of names? I can't remember. I know the Mountain and Cersei are.

7. I adore Bronn and the brother's Lannister together.

8. I think or am hoping that Ayra kills Cersei along with Little Finger.

9. Episodes 4 and 5 are by far the best to date. Episodes 3 and 2 drug a bit.

Comments

[mefisto]

LF is not on Arya's list. Yet. He should be, she just doesn't know what he did.

Cersei doesn't care about the Others. That's just one reason why the plan to bring back a wight makes no sense. I mean, I love the characters, I love the Magnificent Seven vibe, but the plot doesn't make much sense.

[shadowkat]

LF is not on Arya's list. Yet. He should be, she just doesn't know what he did

Considering I'm not entirely sure what he's done, not surprising. It was convoluted in the books and series -- LF plotted John Arryan's death with Caitlynn's sister and convinced her to do it, then framed Cersei and Jamie. He also gave the dagger to Joffrey, who used it to assassinate or attempt to...Bran. And he plotted with the Queen of Thornes Joffrey's death and the framing of Sansa and Tyrion for the crime. All anyone knows is that he talked Sansa into marrying the Bastard of Bolton. (I find the LF story thread along with the three murder mysteries in the books and series horribly plotted and frustrating. By the time they got resolved, I'd forgotten about them. ;-) )

Cersei doesn't care about the Others. That's just one reason why the plan to bring back a wight makes no sense. I mean, I love the characters, I love the Magnificent Seven vibe, but the plot doesn't make much sense.

True. Although keep in mind, Tyrion probably doesn't know that. He's been away for a while and doesn't realize she's crazy and listens to no one. So it does make sense, if you keep in mind that no one going up there to grab a Wight knows that Cersei doesn't care. Also, Jon states he's doing it to convince Danrys as well, who is in a much better position to help. And refuses to without something in return, mainly because she doesn't quite believe him. He needs to convince her if she doesn't help, she's dead. Same with Cersei, with her tamed Zombie, which is the reason Cersei doesn't care -- she has the tamed zombie and this is a story she's been told for a while but nothing came of it. Some people have to actually experience something to care about it. Cersei lacks imagination.

That's another thing to keep in mind, no one at Winterfell cares about the White Walkers, nor does anyone at the Citadel, or anywhere else. They don't believe they are a threat. Sansa and LF certainly don't. Nor does Ayra. Or any of the people in that room, except for those who actually saw them.

(Sort of how the Republicans feel about Global Warming and Climate Change).

Even the people going with him, outside of Davos who saw the Walkers and the Wilding Leader who saw the Walkers, truly believes. Tyrion is even somewhat skeptical.

So, Tyrion is sort of telling Jon -- the only way you going to convince anyone that these are a real threat and why is to show them. Just as the only way anyone is going to believe the dragons are a big deal is to show them.

What I think is going to happen, because they've been laying it on with shovel in foreshadowing, is the wall is going to come tumbling down by the end of this season and the White Walkers are going to be at Winterfell. With next season being the fight with the White Walkers. This season is about convincing everyone that the White Walkers are the biggest problem. That this game of thrones they've been playing it is silly and meaningless, since the dead will just kill everyone if they don't do anything about it.

Speaking of massive foreshadowing, I still think the writers are going to have Ayra kill Cersei's Doctor & Confident & Mad Scientist, Cersei's aid, or Jamie, pose as them, and kill Cersei before the end of the series. That's totally been set up with all the Faceless men training. But first we have to have the intrigue between Ayra/Sansa and LF, which is frankly frustrating and confusing. Everything with LF is confusing. LOL! Not sure why they felt the need to have her at Winterfell -- maybe so she can see the greater threat, which is the White Walkers, not the people on her list?

[mefisto]

Your points about the WW are good. While Cersei won't be convinced, others will.

LF betrayed Ned. That's what Arya doesn't know. And he did it by holding the dagger at Ned's throat.

[shadowkat]

I don't even remember that now...LOL! Doubt she'll ever find out. There's beloved character allegedly returning ...but I've no clue who.

[mefisto]

I'm guessing Bran knows.

I try to avoid spoilers so I don't know about the "returning character".

[mefisto]

I was in a hurry when I posted the above, so let me add some more here.

In the books, LF didn't give the dagger to Joffrey. From what we know in the books, it's likely that Joff stole the dagger from Robert (the actual owner). LF lied to Cat and Ned about the dagger to get them to attack Tyrion. I can't remember how they explained Bran's attacker in the show.

I think that Tyrion should know that Cersei is unreachable. He realized a while ago that she was insane. It is possible, though, that he's trying to forestall an attack on KL because he loves Jaime and doesn't want him killed.

Agreed that Arya is going to kill more of those on her list. I'm guessing LF with the dagger, though Sansa might get that honor. Qyburn's a good bet, though he's not on the list.

[shadowkat]

Whose Qyburn?

I think Tyrion partly wanted them to do it to convince everyone else. And maybe Cersei...he's trying to stop Dani from killing everyone in Kings Landing. If Dany could just kill Cersei, he'd be fine with that, I think, but not everyone else. He was not happy when she slaughtered the entire Lannister Army and almost killed both Jamie and Bronn (both of whom he cares for and had helped escape, well sort of.)

The LF storyline I've forgotten a good part of...mainly because I didn't like it. It was beyond convoluted, and the Starks acted like idiots. (I really would like LF to get it before the end of this season. I know Cersei, Jamie, Jon, Dany, and Tyrion all survive, they are apparently considered the leads and recently renegotiated contracts for the 7th Season and 8th Season at something close to $2M an episode, they'd previous been getting $500,000 an episode. Which is partly why there's only 7 episodes per the last two seasons. Too high a production cost.)

[mefisto]

Qyburn is Cersei's Dr. Frankenstein.

I think we pretty much agree on Tyrion. I'm not sure of the exact amount of caring he has for others in KL besides Jaime, versus how much is just Jaime, but it's probably fair to say some of both.

Now, if those at Dragonstone had any inkling of Arya's talents, they could solve the Cersei problem very quickly.

[mefisto]

Oh, and I think Arya, Sansa, and others will survive this season. My show prediction, in fact, is that Sansa will end up on the IT. But I do expect some of the secondary characters, even well-liked ones like Jorah, to bite it this season.

[shadowkat]

Why do you think Sansa will?

Jon's the only one who doesn't want it. I personally think the one who doesn't want it should have it. Sansa wants it too much as does Danerys.

Otherwise, agree. They'll kill off the supporting characters, like The Hound, Redbeard, Jorah, and LF...this season.

Someone at work thought Cersei would get the IF and win. (When we questioned her on it, she said, well, look who got elected President? Except this is a tv show..if it were the books, on the other hand, I would not be at all surprised.)

[mefisto]

Just gut instinct on Sansa. The showrunners seem to love the actress and her character, an opinion I don't share. They've also treated LF's "grooming" of Sansa as an exercise in proper rule instead of the cynical nihilism that I think it is.

The books are much more ambiguous about Sansa, but even there you can find hints that she's a potential candidate. The biggest one is that her character is modeled on Elizabeth I.

[shadowkat]

The showrunners seem to love the actress and her character, an opinion I don't share. They've also treated LF's "grooming" of Sansa as an exercise in proper rule instead of the cynical nihilism that I think it is.

They did go off book regarding the character some time ago. Martin was less cruel to the character in some respects. No idea where the writer was headed with her, although I know GoT was based loosely on the War of the Roses in Europe. But my European history is to sketchy to make much of that.

I agree, I've never liked the character of Sansa that much. And am half-hoping she's killed by a White Walker along with LF before the end of the series. ;-) But, I agree, that the writers seem to like her.

The actress is okay, somewhat ambivalent about her. She seems to be wearing the same brooding expression 90% of the time.

[shadowkat]

Ah, yes, I think she may end up killing Qyburn, pose as him, and kill Cersei as Qyburn. Also, kill the Mountain in the same manner - except with dragon glass.

Agree on all of the above.