(no subject)

[shadowkat]

Well now, I feel validated for not being a fan of Michael Weatherly ("Bull" and "NCIS") -- CBS Paid Eliza Dushku 9.5 million after alleged sexual harassment termination.

And here's the link to the Times article referenced by NPR - Weatherly and Dushku Sexual Harassment

How much you want to bet that Bull gets cancelled at the end of this year? And NCIS may well be on its last legs?

Details of Ms. Dushku’s experiences on “Bull” and the confidential settlement she reached with the company emerged during the course of an investigation that began in August, when the CBS Corporation board hired the law firms Covington & Burling and Debevoise & Plimpton to examine accusations of sexual misconduct made by multiple women against Leslie Moonves, the company’s former chief executive. The board also instructed the outside lawyers to investigate “cultural issues at all levels of CBS.”

In a draft of the investigation report, which was reviewed by The New York Times, the lawyers said the company’s handling of Ms. Dushku’s complaints was not only misguided, but emblematic of larger problems at CBS. When faced with instances of wrongdoing, the company had a tendency to protect itself, at the expense of victims, the investigators wrote.

(..........)

The investigation’s findings show how Ms. Dushku sought to address conduct she found demeaning, why she believed she faced retaliation and how a top CBS lawyer tried to undermine her claims with what investigators described as an “antiquated” view of how a woman should comport herself in the workplace.

On “Bull,” Ms. Dushku played J.P. Nunnelly, a criminal defense lawyer. Although she would have a running flirtation with Mr. Weatherly’s character, Mr. Caron, the producer, said that he “wouldn’t want intimacy” until the show’s fifth season, according to notes taken by a participant in an interview Ms. Dushku gave investigators in September.

But it wasn’t long before Mr. Weatherly started making comments that left her feeling uncomfortable. “Here comes legs,” he said on a day when Ms. Dushku was wearing a suit, according to the interview notes. On another occasion, Ms. Dushku told investigators, he said in front of the cast and crew that he would bend her over his leg and spank her.

In an interview, Mr. Weatherly said the remark about spanking was meant as a joke. “I ad-libbed a joke, a classic Cary Grant line from ‘Charade’ or ‘Philadelphia Story,’ and that meant not at all that that was an action I wanted to take,” he said.

Ms. Dushku also described to investigators a time on the set when, in character, she made a gesture with three fingers. In response, she said, Mr. Weatherly suggested — to laughs from the crew — that she wanted to have a threesome with him and another male cast member.

I have to say I've seen this behavior throughout my working life. And it runs a lot deeper than CBS. This is the toxic male culture that we currently live in. Every television show, every business, every workplace, every school...most likely has seen similar behavior or instances of it. We turn a blind eye...and say, well it's a harmless joke or boys will be boys, or he's just flirting, it's nothing -- toughen up.

But it isn't nothing. And no one should be made to feel unsafe in their work environment. Also crass jokes are best left at home.

Comments

[petzipellepingo]

And then there's this ...

[shadowkat]

Interesting...I'm thinking the problem lay a lot higher up the chain than the actors, it usually does.

[yourlibrarian]

Oh I'm sure it is, that's why this case was uncovered in the first place. But I do find it disappointing that Perette in particular should cast doubt on the accusations, especially since the reason that Dushku got a settlement in the first place is because there was video evidence.

I doubt anything will happen to Weatherly. It's funny how some of the worst perpetrators of these problems end up getting more opportunities rather than fewer. Witness David Boreanaz.

[shadowkat]

You may well be right. Bull is high in the ratings, and a lot of people will handwave it. (I can't stand Weatherly any more than I can stand Boreanze, find both to be creepy and they make my skin crawl.)

I read about Boreanze's crap way back in the 1990s, which was one of the reasons I struggled with Angel the series and the Bangle ship. (He was cheating on his wife with actresses on Buffy in the 1990s. Then years later, married a Playboy Centerfold, who he also cheated on. And harassed actresses on Bones and Seal. He's pretty, so got away with it. Also it's the culture.) Add to that - he exposed himself on the set of Angel all the time - by exposed, I mean flashed women on the set with his...penis. Both Dushku and Julie Benze mentioned. And he held up filming by pulling pranks. Once set off the sprinkler system. J August Young and Amy Acker couldn't stand him. (I found that out from a puppeteer who did Smile Time, who said the cast was happy to have an episode without Boreanze. They did not like him at all.)

Some people handwave this stuff, SMG did, so did Benze, and Dushku to an extent. Marsters never witnessed it and was surprised by the stories. It did bug the others. Honestly can you imagine being flashed by the star of the series you are guesting on?

[yourlibrarian]

Yeah, I'd gathered a while back that his co-workers weren't keen on him for good reason. Interesting about the puppeteer's tale! His situation sounds much like Shatner on Trek, except I think Shatner actually cared about his character and the show whereas I think Boreanaz just had contempt for his work.

I rather doubt Marsters didn't know. Nick Brendan can't stand him and doesn't do anything to hide it. I'm sure there are some stories there.

Speaking of Weatherly though, someone else's post (it's locked) linked to this story which does a good job of following rot from the top: https://www.vulture.com/2018/12/cbs-eliza-dushku-bull-toxic-culture.html?_ga=2.37782371.1521231394.1544912935-1012509766.1543460147

[cjlasky7]

Oh yes. Read the Vulture article. It's depressing, but well done.

[shadowkat]

It is depressing. Also validates my decision not to watch any of the CBS procedurals or subscribe to CBS All Access.

They are going by Neilsen ratings -- but they aren't accurate. Most people stream. The only people watching Bull are over the age of 50. That's not the demo a good advertiser wants to attract.

[shadowkat]

His situation sounds much like Shatner on Trek, except I think Shatner actually cared about his character and the show whereas I think Boreanaz just had contempt for his work.

Oh, Boreanze saw Angel as just a stepping stone. He used to make fun of it. He despised working on it -- because Whedon was very controlling and he didn't get to improv and had less control. Also, he refused to come to any of the reunions until the last one -- and they only got him to the last one, by promising that Nick Brendan wouldn't be there.

I rather doubt Marsters didn't know.

I watched his face when they revealed it and he looked genuinely shocked, while Brendan said -- eh, he did that on Buffy too, and wasn't surprised.

Keep in mind, Marsters came on at the end of Angel's run, and wasn't around as much. By that time, Boreanze was exhausted.

So, it's possible he didn't run into the penis flashing. Also, by that time, Julie Benze and Dushku were gone -- as was Charisma. He was left with Acker, who did not like him. He did draw obscene doodles of Marsters in a dress and he pissed off Adam Baldwin with his unprofessional behavior -- I know because Baldwin ranted about it in one of the commentaries, and then said how professional Marsters was in comparison.

Marsters is smart though -- he doesn't say anything negative about any of the actors he's worked with any longer. He learned the hard way to keep his mouth shut.

[yourlibrarian]

Baldwin may well have been talking about Boreanaz but when I heard him I assumed he was talking about Andy Hallett. Andy told a story on himself about how he once had to have Kelly Manners lie down under a table and hold his ankle during a scene where he kept laughing and laughing (which of course set others like Acker laughing as well), and apparently it wasn't uncommon for him to break up the set.

Marsters is smart though -- he doesn't say anything negative about any of the actors he's worked with any longer. He learned the hard way to keep his mouth shut.

That's probably a good thing for him but yeah, he's been an unreliable narrator in the past. I think he's been spot on in some comments but then would completely contradict himself at other times depending on what he felt was needed at the moment.

[shadowkat]

Andy was actually not the greatest violator of that...and wasn't on as often. No, when Baldwin was discussing it in the commentary, David was on-screen. (It was during the episode where Marsters had to keep taking the beer can out of his briefcase, because Boreanze couldn't stop giggling.) And the writers stated Marsters never laughed and didn't break character throughout, while DB did. The other big violator was Alexis Denisof.

I've seen the gag reels. The only person who was never in a gag reel was Marsters.

And yeah, he does contradict himself at Q&A's but only regarding Gellar and Whedon, no one else. And in this one, it was a panel, and he was reacting to something Dushku was saying, and Benze chimed in. They asked the others if they saw it -- they looked at each other, and said no. I think Marsters burst out in giggles and when Benze turned to him and asked if he saw that -- he said, no, no, and are you serious? Really? He was genuinely shocked. (It's only come up once and only in one Q&A, it's the same one in which Marsters tells the story about banging his head against the pavement, I think.)

[shadowkat]

I think it is this Q&A...which is by far the most interesting Buffy Panel Q&A that I've seen.

Yes, it's definitely that one -- and about five - six minutes in. They ask the difference between the two shoes, and Eliza says that Angel was goofier and edgier, because of the timelot and because of David, who kept flashing everyone. Marsters laughs and says he never pulled that thing out with me.
And Benze laughs and says shocking.Then Marsters quickly changes the topic to the Dragon Con signs.

[yourlibrarian]

I can believe that, he was always very professional in his performances.

[shadowkat]

OOps..I got confused on who you were talking about. I thought you were talking about Weatherly -- stupidity on my part.

Yeah, James was very professional. Whedon said he wasn't in the gag reels because he's boring. When the shoot ends, he goes back to his seat and reviews his script. When they call action - he's like a panther and leaps in. Whedon said -- that's okay. Keep doing that. It's amazing. But you're not ending up on the gag reel.

They couldn't put Boreanze on the reel -- because no pants.

[frelling_tralk]

I watched his face when they revealed it and he looked genuinely shocked, while Brendan said -- eh, he did that on Buffy too, and wasn't surprised.

It’s interesting because I remember James speaking openly about it being an issue for him when John Barrowman kept flashing everyone on the Torchwood set and grabbing his female co-workers, and the atmosphere made him *very* uncomfortable. He could see that it was play-acting with the women laughing along, but he was tense that John Barrowman might grab at him next and he would automatically lash out and punch him in response, so to to try and make it clear where he stood he told the actress Naoko that there was a defensive move he could teach her the next time that John Barrowman touched her breasts, and he said the whole set went deathly quiet in response and he felt like an asshole. He did try and make it clear that John Barrowman was very respectful after that and careful to respect his personal boundaries, but fancy putting guest stars in that position in the first place where they feel unsafe, so many actors would not have felt comfortable to tell the main star to knock it off, I’m not going to play along. Not to mention the crew not being in the position to tell him to put his trousers back on and behave himself

And I think I remember Joss joking on season 2 Buffy commentaries about how David was wearing no pants, and I wasn’t sure what to make of it. I certainly didn’t think that he would have been completely nude on set though, how disgusting. Can you just imagine if it was a woman walking around on set flashing herself to everyone, she would be painted as such a desperate attention seeker (and worse), but somehow it’s meant to be cute and ‘boys will be boys’ when they share these stories

[shadowkat]

Whoa...I didn't know that about Barrowman, but I can totally see it. He's very "touchy-feely" -- some people are. I've co-workers, mostly male, who have no sense of personal boundaries. They aren't doing anything inappropriate, but they get up in my personal space and cause me to jump and I find myself moving away from them.

I'm extremely sensitive to personal boundaries and personal space. But I've learned not everyone is. They hug and kiss everyone. And Barrowman probably thought he could get away with it because, hello, gay. So a gay guy groping a gal's breasts -- no big deal and he gropes everyone, so no big. (Yeah, it is. Groping is groping. And not everyone wants to be touched in that way.)

What disturbs me most about the story above is...the fact that Marsters was made to feel like an asshole for telling a woman how to defend herself from someone groping her breasts. And...that he was made to feel uncomfortable for making it clear that he did not want to be groped, unless it was in character. And wished for respectful boundaries.

I saw Barrowman do a Q&A about kissing Marsters on Torchwood...and I found it hilarious at the time, but now... a little disturbing. Okay, so you are a gay man, and you have to do a sex scene or kissing scene with a man who identifies as heterosexual. It's acting. You have to do take after take. Sex and kissing scenes aren't comfortable regardless of your sexual orientation. Your job as an actor is to make the other guy feel safe. His depiction of that scene -- didn't make me think he went out of his way to make his partner feel safe. Even though Marsters does nothing but sing Barrowman's praises...those two bits together, make me wonder about Barrowman.

but fancy putting guest stars in that position in the first place where they feel unsafe, so many actors would not have felt comfortable to tell the main star to knock it off, I’m not going to play along.

Exactly. I mean the guest isn't being paid as much as the star. I will state that my respect for Gellar went up, when Marsters said she insisted that the production crew provide chairs for Marsters and Landau when they were guesting on Buffy.

If you're the star of the show -- it's sort of your job to set the tone on set and make everyone comfortable. And if you are the show-runner -- same deal.

And I think I remember Joss joking on season 2 Buffy commentaries about how David was wearing no pants, and I wasn’t sure what to make of it. I certainly didn’t think that he would have been completely nude on set though, how disgusting.

I thought it was just a joke too. And when I first saw that Q&A that I linked to in response to yourlibrarian and cjlasky -- I didn't understand what she was discussing at first. She says it so off the cuff, and Julie Benze nodds and goes, yep, and Mercedes does as well. Brendan looks down and says nothing. And Marsters looks gob-smacked and rapidly tries to change the discussion. That's when I realized what she said and the implications.

Can you imagine? Coming to work each day, putting in a 12-18 hour day, and having to deal with the star or head guy flashing his penis in your face? Ugh. I'd be tempted to tell him -- do that one more time Dude, and it's coming off or I'm going to kick you. Talk about feeling unsafe. Makes me very glad I'm not a television actor. Also makes me wish someone would sue DB for $9.5 Million.

And you're right -- a woman would get away with it. If she just takes her top off - she'd be treated like a sex object, told she obviously wants sex, or trying for attention.

[shadowkat]

Okay, I looked it up, apparently Barrowman does it in interviews and on the set. He walks around all the time with his tackle hanging out, talking to people. Did it so often -- they got used to it.

Barrowman lets his willy hang out -- per Freema Agyeman

Sigh. That would make me uncomfortable and distract me. Also it's inappropriate.

And yes, David would wander around with no pants on, and no socks, letting all hang loose on the set of Buffy according to Gellar -- to see if he could distract her or make her laugh

Although, from what I know about Barrowman and everything else Marsters has said -- I get the feeling that they were able to handwave it as his personality and nothing to take too seriously? I don't know. Makes me happy I'm not in that business.

[frelling_tralk]

Whoa...I didn't know that about Barrowman, but I can totally see it. He's very "touchy-feely" -- some people are. I've co-workers, mostly male, who have no sense of personal boundaries. They aren't doing anything inappropriate, but they get up in my personal space and cause me to jump and I find myself moving away from them

I can’t find the interview now annoyingly, but I remember it stood out to me because James was obviously trying to be diplomatic about it and paint it as more his issue than John Barrowman (I think he commented that he was worried that he might have a latent homophonic response if John Barrowman grabbed at him, and that’s why he thought quickly to make the comment about how Naoko should deal with him touching her to make it clear where he stood, even though obviously there is nothing homophobic about not wanting another man to grab at your body without permission). It was all told in the context of JB being really respectful after James made it clear that he was not comfortable with the grabbing going on around him, but even so it said a lot to me about JB and his lack of professional boundaries.

It does sound like the TW regulars were all one big family and the touching was completely consensual on their part, I recall that John Barrowman nicknamed Naoko and Eve’s breast or something (and Eve shared his hotel room in one location because she feared that her room was haunted?) But also it sounds like a lot passed unchecked because there was kind of a gay best friend vibe going on and clearly there was no respect for how it can come across to a new actor to the set. And the flashing the penis being told as a cute anctode, I have no words. It honestly just doesn’t occur to some men that maybe someone on the crew who is low on the pecking order is not going to feel comfortable asking you to put it away, and you should not be putting anyone in that position in the first place. (Frankly my sympathy for Christopher Eccleston is immense after JB described him as so miserable to work with on the set of DW, that kind of attention seeking can be unbearable when the person responsible just doesn’t get why you’re not laughing along and finding them hysterical)

And I know exactly the Q&A you’re talking about, and it makes me very uncomfortable as well, especially when you think how differently it would come across to people if it was a male lead actor talking about deliberately messing up takes so that he could spend more time kissing a female guest star that he found attractive. It made me feel horrible for James too when I heard that he was telling the story under the belief that it was his girlfriend who requested lots of takes, and then a fan seems to think it was cute when they told him what John Barrowman had said about it all being down to JB getting off on it, and apparently James looked uncomfortable in response and didn’t seem to know what to make of that. People on my flist seem to find it adorable, but honestly I couldn’t even watch that clip of JB making fun of James not wanting to have multiple kissing takes without very much wanting to punch him

[shadowkat]

It made me feel horrible for James too when I heard that he was telling the story under the belief that it was his girlfriend who requested lots of takes, and then a fan seems to think it was cute when they told him what John Barrowman had said about it all being down to JB getting off on it, and apparently James looked uncomfortable in response and didn’t seem to know what to make of that. People on my flist seem to find it adorable, but honestly I couldn’t even watch that clip of JB making fun of James not wanting to have multiple kissing takes without very much wanting to punch him

Well that explains why he now responds to that question in a much more truthful manner.

When a fan asked who he found to be the better kisser, SMG or JB?

He responded -- "Do you want the answer that you really want or the truth?"

Of course everyone says the truth.

And he responds, "I don't know." And then explains how uncomfortable it is filming a kissing scene on camera and all the takes. He also underlines how it is a glamour and what we see isn't real. He no longer tells the story the way he used to -- about his girl-friend pushing for another take, or how it was better with JB. Or the razor burn. Instead -- he says, it's not sexy, it's work and it's frigging hard to pull off.

Smart. Because that response alone pretty much pulls the rug out of JB's and makes JB's response look like a performance.

when you think how differently it would come across to people if it was a male lead actor talking about deliberately messing up takes so that he could spend more time kissing a female guest star that he found attractive.

It's an abuse of power and the situation that you are currently in. A lot of gay male actors -- see themselves as the "disenfranchised" minority, and boy, I want to get into the heterosexual male actor's face and make him confront his homophobia. (I totally get that, but James Marsters is no more homophobic than Anthony Rapp or anyone, who just isn't that into kissing a guy he's not attracted to.)

And here's the thing a lot of people don't get -- Marsters didn't enjoy kissing Gellar. I remember him on the Sharon Osborn show, and all these pictures of him and Gellar kissing -- and he turned them over, muttering, let's not look at these. He also said -- he had to figure out a way to want to kiss her -- because he thought of her as an annoying kid sister. Barrowman -- he thought was a good guy, but he wasn't attracted to him and kissing someone is frigging hard on television and uncomfortable.

The man's an actor. He doesn't care if it is a man or woman -- when he's doing it on television, he's not really kissing the person, he's performing for the camera, and the crew, and everyone on set -- and doing lots of takes.

Can you imagine kissing some guy that you aren't attracted to, possibly has bad breath, and has made you uncomfortable on set -- but is the lead of the show? Ugh. Not to mention the fact that Barrowman is 6 feet three, and Marsters is 5'7 if that, and wants to do more episodes.

Barrowman's Q&A in that light is...a clear abuse of power.

[shadowkat]

I was just thinking about this...and...Barrowman at least wasn't sleeping with various actresses on set or coming on to them. It was just a gay friend vibe.
What David Boreanze was doing was in some ways worse...because he was sleeping with the actresses (and married at the time). He also did it to get a rise out of the actresses who were much smaller than he was.