(no subject)
Sep. 8th, 2019 07:22 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkat1. The problem with lists -- in the creative arts, is seriously this is subjective. People tend to like what resonates for them personally -- that's what art does. And it's moody, I often will love something ten years ago, that I hate now, and vice versa. So art or what is good art is in the eye of the beholder, and objective criteria -- outside of technical skill, is difficult to assess.
What's interesting here, unlike the BBC's lists or the New York Playwrite's list, is they actually tell us about the voting process.
More than 5,000 of you nominated. More than 60,000 of you voted. And now the results are in. The winners of NPR's Top 100 Science-Fiction and Fantasy survey are an intriguing mix of classic and contemporary titles. Over on NPR's pop culture blog, Monkey See, you can find one fan's thoughts on how the list shaped up, get our experts' take, and have the chance to share your own.
A quick word about what's here, and what's not: Our panel of experts reviewed hundreds of the most popular nominations and tossed out those that didn't fit the survey's criteria (after — we assure you — much passionate, thoughtful, gleefully nerdy discussion). You'll notice there are no young adult or horror books on this list, but sit tight, dear reader, we're saving those genres for summers yet to come.
[Uhm, actually there are several YA horror novels on this list, I counted at least three (Bradbury's Something Wicked This Way Comes, King's Gunslinger, and McKinley's Sunshine) -- so I don't know what these people are smoking.
Warning: I did not like the list. But I did read an awful lot of books on it, and promptly forgot about them. There are several books on the list I did like -- but I feel this list unfairly slanted to old white dudes, who wrote books that are highly overrated, outdated, and have not stood the test of time. The other problem I have here -- is they impose rules for the romance novels, comedy, and horror -- two novel rule. But didn't here, and they should have -- there's a lot of old, dead, white dudes with multiple selections, some deserving, many not. Maybe this was before they realized it was problematic? I don't know. I wouldn't so much if they were there instead of books by several of my favorite authors, who are more deserving and better books. There's no Andre Norton, CJ Cherryth, Maria Doria Russell, Sherri Teppar, James Tippetree, Octavia Butler, N K Nemishe, Ann Leckie, Cat Valente, Mercedes Lackey, Elizabeth Bear, etc. Instead we have people like Diana Galabadon, Jim Butcher, way too many Heinlein (I think he has four) Gaiman (four-five), Ray Bradbury -- five, etc. This is bad form. NPR? Shame on you. And why on earth, do we have the sexist Conan The Barbarian Series? ]
Meme:
Bold the ones you read.
Italicize the ones you tried and couldn't get through. (Some of these are series...so, decide how you want to treat that.)
1 The Lord Of The Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien
2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams
3 Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card -- the appeal of this book is lost on me.
4 Dune - The Dune Chronicles by Frank Herbert
5 Game of Thrones Boxed Set - A Song Of Ice And Fire Series by George R.R. Martin
6 1984 A Novel by George Orwell
7 Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury
8 Foundation - The Foundation Trilogy by Isaac Asimov
9 Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
10 American Gods by Neil Gaiman -- despised both books. Gaiman isn't crazy about Gods, either, which is interesting.
11 The Princess Bride - The Princess Bride S. Morgenstern's Classic Tale of True Love and High Adventure by William Goldman
12 Wheel of Time- The Wheel Of Time Series by Robert Jordan
13 Animal Farm - by George Orwell
14 Neuromancer by William Gibson -- Pattern Recognition was better.
15 Watchmen by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons
16 I, Robot - by Isaac Asimov
17 Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert A. Heinlein -- I confuse it with Brave New World. Neither are that good.
18 The Name of the Wind - The Kingkiller Chronicles - by Patrick Rothfuss
19 Slaughterhouse-five by Kurt Vonnegut
20 Frankenstein by Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley [Hmmm, this made the horror and sci-fi list.]
21 Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? by Philip K. Dick
22 The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood [Also made the horror list as well.]
23 The Gunslinger -The Dark Tower Series - by Stephen King - Really? This is King's YA novel. Hunger Games is Better - so is Dark is Rising Novels. King's already on this list, kick this off.
24 2001: A Space Odyssey by Arthur C. Clarke
25 The Stand - by Stephen King [I rest my case.]
26 Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson
27 The Martian Chronicles by Ray Bradbury -- [how many Ray Bradbury's do we need]
28 Cat's Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut [Welcome to the Monkey House was better.]
29 The Sandman -The Sandman Series - by Neil Gaiman [ Same with Gaiman -- how many do we need? Two is enough, and this is already in the horror category.]
30 A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess [I skimmed this. It's hard to read. And I saw the movie twice.]
31 Starship Troopers by Robert A. Heinlein
32 Watership Down by Richard Adams
33 Dragonflight by Anne McCaffrey
34 The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress by Robert A. Heinlein [What happened to the Nora Roberts rule? There's one too many Heinlein novels on this list, just saying.]
35 A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller Jr.
36 The Time Machine by H.G. Wells [ I honestly don't think we need two HG Wells and ...more than one Heinlein on this list.]
37 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea by Jules Verne
38 Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes
39 The War of the Worlds by H.G. Wells
40 The Great Book of Amber The Amber Chronicles by Roger Zelazny
41 The Belgariad by David Eddings
42 The Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley -- no, no, no. Sharra's exile was slightly better, and I'd have preferred CJ Cherryth or Andre Norton or Sherri Teppar.
43 Mistborn Trilogy by Brandon Sanderson
44 Ringworld by Larry Niven
45 The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le Guin
46 The Silmarillion by J.R.R. Tolkien
47 The Once and Future King by T.H. White -- whoever voted and judged this is obsessed with the King Arthur legends, just saying.
48 Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman -- why can't this be the only Gaiman entry?
49 Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke
50 Contact by Carl Sagan -- Really? There are other better ones out there.
51 Hyperion - The Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons
52 Stardust by Neil Gaiman [Apparently the Nora Roberts rule only applies to female writers, not male writers?]
53 Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson
54 World War Z An Oral History of the Zombie War by Max Brooks [So some horror novels are allowed but not others?]
55 The Last Unicorn by Peter S. Beagle
56 The Forever War by Joe Haldeman - I can't remember if I read this or not. It sounds familiar.
57 Small Gods A Novel of Discworld by Terry Pratchett
58 The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever by Stephen R. Donaldson
59 Shards of Honor The Vorkosigan Saga by Lois McMaster Bujold
60 Going Postal - Going Postal - A Novel of Discworld by Terry Pratchett
61 The Mote in God's Eye by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle
62 Wizard's First Rule - The Sword Of Truth Series by Terry Goodkind
63 The Road by Cormac McCarthy
64 Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell by Susanna Clarke
65 I Am Legend by Richard Matheson [ another novel that is also on the horror list.]
66 Magician - The Riftwar Saga by Raymond E. Feist - Feel like I've read this too.
67 The Sword of Shannara Trilogy - The Sword of Shannara Trilogy by Terry Brooks
68 The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian The Conan The Barbarian Series by Robert E. Howard and Mark Schultz [Sigh. You put this on here but no Teppar and no Cherryth, and no Butler. Shame on you. Shame.]
69 Assassin's Apprentice - The Farseer Trilogy by Robin Hobb
70 The Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey Niffenegger [They also appear to be partial to time travel romance novels.]
71 The Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson
72 Journey to the Center of the Earth by Jules Verne
73 Homeland - The Legend Of Drizzt Series by R. A. Salvatore
74 Old Man's War by John Scalzi
75 The Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson
76 Rendezvous With Rama by Arthur C. Clarke -- this I read. I don't remember it at all, but I know I read it.
77 Kushiel's Dart - The Kushiel's Legacy Series by Jacqueline Carey
78 The Dispossessed - An Ambiguous Utopia by Ursula K. Le Guin
79 Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury -- This is horror! And we have more than one book by Ray on this list already.
80 Wicked - The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West by Gregory Maguire (overrrated in my opinion. Granted I haven't read the OZ books.)
81 Gardens of the Moon The Malazan Book Of The Fallen series by Steven Erikson
82 The Eyre Affair - by Jasper Fforde
83 Consider Phlebas The Culture Series by Iain Banks
84 The Crystal Cave by Mary Stewart (See what I mean about the Arthur Legends?)
85 Anathem by Neal Stephenson
86 Furies of Calderon The Codex Alera Series by Jim Butcher (And they do love sword and socerey series that double as little boys coming of age stories...don't they?)
87 Shadow & Claw The Book Of The New Sun by Gene Wolfe
88 Star Wars The Thrawn Trilogy by Timothy Zahn -- Really? This is so poorly written. It has adjectives and adverbs after most, if not all the dialogue quotes. Why is it here?
89 Outlander - The Outlander Series by Diana Gabaldon -- (I rest my case on the time travel romance novels.)
90 Elric of Melnibone -The Elric Saga by Michael Moorcock
91 The Illustrated Man by Ray Bradbury and on all the Bradbury.
92 Sunshine by Robin McKinley [This is YA horror, people.]
93 A Fire upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge
94 The Caves of Steel by Isaac Asimov
95 Red Mars - The Mars Trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson
96 Lucifer's Hammer by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle
97 Doomsday Book by Connie Willis
98 Perdido Street Station by China Miéville
99 A Spell for Chameleon - The Xanth Series by Piers Anthony
100 Space Trilogy - The Space Trilogy - by C.S. Lewis (really, really?)
YMMV of course. But bleach. And I did read a lot of them, so make of that what you will...
Five books I'd have added to it that are not on there.
1. Grass by Sherri Teppar
2. The Sparrow by Maria Doria Russel (and Children of God)
3. The Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler
4. The Pride of Chanur by CJ Cherryh
5. Witchworld by Andre Norton
Those are better books and series than over half of the ones on there.
Also, I'd have kicked off Jim Butcher, and put instead Joan D. Vinge's Snow Queen.
Not to mention the Dragon Prince series by Mercedes Lackey.
Ugh.
2. On another note...I finished The Expanse finally and was rather impressed by it. Although S3 is not as good as S2, it does open things up in a way that makes S4 look interesting. It also brings in some new characters, and builds up new relationships. The female characters do rock in this series, more than in most. And it's among the few with a diverse cast. David Straithorn and Elizabeth Mitchell are added.
I'm looking forward to S4, which is to drop in December and am rather glad it got renewed.
Feeling somewhat aggravated lately. Not sure why. I think I'm frustrated with everything and people in particular, which is making me snappish. I will strive to do better.
What's interesting here, unlike the BBC's lists or the New York Playwrite's list, is they actually tell us about the voting process.
More than 5,000 of you nominated. More than 60,000 of you voted. And now the results are in. The winners of NPR's Top 100 Science-Fiction and Fantasy survey are an intriguing mix of classic and contemporary titles. Over on NPR's pop culture blog, Monkey See, you can find one fan's thoughts on how the list shaped up, get our experts' take, and have the chance to share your own.
A quick word about what's here, and what's not: Our panel of experts reviewed hundreds of the most popular nominations and tossed out those that didn't fit the survey's criteria (after — we assure you — much passionate, thoughtful, gleefully nerdy discussion). You'll notice there are no young adult or horror books on this list, but sit tight, dear reader, we're saving those genres for summers yet to come.
[Uhm, actually there are several YA horror novels on this list, I counted at least three (Bradbury's Something Wicked This Way Comes, King's Gunslinger, and McKinley's Sunshine) -- so I don't know what these people are smoking.
Warning: I did not like the list. But I did read an awful lot of books on it, and promptly forgot about them. There are several books on the list I did like -- but I feel this list unfairly slanted to old white dudes, who wrote books that are highly overrated, outdated, and have not stood the test of time. The other problem I have here -- is they impose rules for the romance novels, comedy, and horror -- two novel rule. But didn't here, and they should have -- there's a lot of old, dead, white dudes with multiple selections, some deserving, many not. Maybe this was before they realized it was problematic? I don't know. I wouldn't so much if they were there instead of books by several of my favorite authors, who are more deserving and better books. There's no Andre Norton, CJ Cherryth, Maria Doria Russell, Sherri Teppar, James Tippetree, Octavia Butler, N K Nemishe, Ann Leckie, Cat Valente, Mercedes Lackey, Elizabeth Bear, etc. Instead we have people like Diana Galabadon, Jim Butcher, way too many Heinlein (I think he has four) Gaiman (four-five), Ray Bradbury -- five, etc. This is bad form. NPR? Shame on you. And why on earth, do we have the sexist Conan The Barbarian Series? ]
Meme:
Bold the ones you read.
Italicize the ones you tried and couldn't get through. (Some of these are series...so, decide how you want to treat that.)
1 The Lord Of The Rings by J.R.R. Tolkien
2 The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy by Douglas Adams
3 Ender's Game by Orson Scott Card -- the appeal of this book is lost on me.
4 Dune - The Dune Chronicles by Frank Herbert
5 Game of Thrones Boxed Set - A Song Of Ice And Fire Series by George R.R. Martin
6 1984 A Novel by George Orwell
7 Fahrenheit 451 by Ray Bradbury
8 Foundation - The Foundation Trilogy by Isaac Asimov
9 Brave New World by Aldous Huxley
10 American Gods by Neil Gaiman -- despised both books. Gaiman isn't crazy about Gods, either, which is interesting.
11 The Princess Bride - The Princess Bride S. Morgenstern's Classic Tale of True Love and High Adventure by William Goldman
12 Wheel of Time- The Wheel Of Time Series by Robert Jordan
13 Animal Farm - by George Orwell
14 Neuromancer by William Gibson -- Pattern Recognition was better.
15 Watchmen by Alan Moore and Dave Gibbons
16 I, Robot - by Isaac Asimov
17 Stranger in a Strange Land by Robert A. Heinlein -- I confuse it with Brave New World. Neither are that good.
18 The Name of the Wind - The Kingkiller Chronicles - by Patrick Rothfuss
19 Slaughterhouse-five by Kurt Vonnegut
20 Frankenstein by Mary Wollstonecraft Shelley [Hmmm, this made the horror and sci-fi list.]
21 Do Androids Dream of Electric Sheep? by Philip K. Dick
22 The Handmaid's Tale by Margaret Atwood [Also made the horror list as well.]
23 The Gunslinger -The Dark Tower Series - by Stephen King - Really? This is King's YA novel. Hunger Games is Better - so is Dark is Rising Novels. King's already on this list, kick this off.
24 2001: A Space Odyssey by Arthur C. Clarke
25 The Stand - by Stephen King [I rest my case.]
26 Snow Crash by Neal Stephenson
27 The Martian Chronicles by Ray Bradbury -- [how many Ray Bradbury's do we need]
28 Cat's Cradle by Kurt Vonnegut [Welcome to the Monkey House was better.]
29 The Sandman -The Sandman Series - by Neil Gaiman [ Same with Gaiman -- how many do we need? Two is enough, and this is already in the horror category.]
30 A Clockwork Orange by Anthony Burgess [I skimmed this. It's hard to read. And I saw the movie twice.]
31 Starship Troopers by Robert A. Heinlein
32 Watership Down by Richard Adams
33 Dragonflight by Anne McCaffrey
34 The Moon Is a Harsh Mistress by Robert A. Heinlein [What happened to the Nora Roberts rule? There's one too many Heinlein novels on this list, just saying.]
35 A Canticle for Leibowitz by Walter M. Miller Jr.
36 The Time Machine by H.G. Wells [ I honestly don't think we need two HG Wells and ...more than one Heinlein on this list.]
37 20,000 Leagues Under the Sea by Jules Verne
38 Flowers For Algernon by Daniel Keyes
39 The War of the Worlds by H.G. Wells
40 The Great Book of Amber The Amber Chronicles by Roger Zelazny
41 The Belgariad by David Eddings
42 The Mists of Avalon by Marion Zimmer Bradley -- no, no, no. Sharra's exile was slightly better, and I'd have preferred CJ Cherryth or Andre Norton or Sherri Teppar.
43 Mistborn Trilogy by Brandon Sanderson
44 Ringworld by Larry Niven
45 The Left Hand of Darkness by Ursula K. Le Guin
46 The Silmarillion by J.R.R. Tolkien
47 The Once and Future King by T.H. White -- whoever voted and judged this is obsessed with the King Arthur legends, just saying.
48 Neverwhere by Neil Gaiman -- why can't this be the only Gaiman entry?
49 Childhood's End by Arthur C. Clarke
50 Contact by Carl Sagan -- Really? There are other better ones out there.
51 Hyperion - The Hyperion Cantos by Dan Simmons
52 Stardust by Neil Gaiman [Apparently the Nora Roberts rule only applies to female writers, not male writers?]
53 Cryptonomicon by Neal Stephenson
54 World War Z An Oral History of the Zombie War by Max Brooks [So some horror novels are allowed but not others?]
55 The Last Unicorn by Peter S. Beagle
56 The Forever War by Joe Haldeman - I can't remember if I read this or not. It sounds familiar.
57 Small Gods A Novel of Discworld by Terry Pratchett
58 The Chronicles of Thomas Covenant the Unbeliever by Stephen R. Donaldson
59 Shards of Honor The Vorkosigan Saga by Lois McMaster Bujold
60 Going Postal - Going Postal - A Novel of Discworld by Terry Pratchett
61 The Mote in God's Eye by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle
62 Wizard's First Rule - The Sword Of Truth Series by Terry Goodkind
63 The Road by Cormac McCarthy
64 Jonathan Strange & Mr. Norrell by Susanna Clarke
65 I Am Legend by Richard Matheson [ another novel that is also on the horror list.]
66 Magician - The Riftwar Saga by Raymond E. Feist - Feel like I've read this too.
67 The Sword of Shannara Trilogy - The Sword of Shannara Trilogy by Terry Brooks
68 The Coming of Conan the Cimmerian The Conan The Barbarian Series by Robert E. Howard and Mark Schultz [Sigh. You put this on here but no Teppar and no Cherryth, and no Butler. Shame on you. Shame.]
69 Assassin's Apprentice - The Farseer Trilogy by Robin Hobb
70 The Time Traveler's Wife by Audrey Niffenegger [They also appear to be partial to time travel romance novels.]
71 The Way of Kings by Brandon Sanderson
72 Journey to the Center of the Earth by Jules Verne
73 Homeland - The Legend Of Drizzt Series by R. A. Salvatore
74 Old Man's War by John Scalzi
75 The Diamond Age by Neal Stephenson
76 Rendezvous With Rama by Arthur C. Clarke -- this I read. I don't remember it at all, but I know I read it.
77 Kushiel's Dart - The Kushiel's Legacy Series by Jacqueline Carey
78 The Dispossessed - An Ambiguous Utopia by Ursula K. Le Guin
79 Something Wicked This Way Comes by Ray Bradbury -- This is horror! And we have more than one book by Ray on this list already.
80 Wicked - The Life and Times of the Wicked Witch of the West by Gregory Maguire (overrrated in my opinion. Granted I haven't read the OZ books.)
81 Gardens of the Moon The Malazan Book Of The Fallen series by Steven Erikson
82 The Eyre Affair - by Jasper Fforde
83 Consider Phlebas The Culture Series by Iain Banks
84 The Crystal Cave by Mary Stewart (See what I mean about the Arthur Legends?)
85 Anathem by Neal Stephenson
86 Furies of Calderon The Codex Alera Series by Jim Butcher (And they do love sword and socerey series that double as little boys coming of age stories...don't they?)
87 Shadow & Claw The Book Of The New Sun by Gene Wolfe
88 Star Wars The Thrawn Trilogy by Timothy Zahn -- Really? This is so poorly written. It has adjectives and adverbs after most, if not all the dialogue quotes. Why is it here?
89 Outlander - The Outlander Series by Diana Gabaldon -- (I rest my case on the time travel romance novels.)
90 Elric of Melnibone -The Elric Saga by Michael Moorcock
91 The Illustrated Man by Ray Bradbury and on all the Bradbury.
92 Sunshine by Robin McKinley [This is YA horror, people.]
93 A Fire upon the Deep by Vernor Vinge
94 The Caves of Steel by Isaac Asimov
95 Red Mars - The Mars Trilogy by Kim Stanley Robinson
96 Lucifer's Hammer by Larry Niven and Jerry Pournelle
97 Doomsday Book by Connie Willis
98 Perdido Street Station by China Miéville
99 A Spell for Chameleon - The Xanth Series by Piers Anthony
100 Space Trilogy - The Space Trilogy - by C.S. Lewis (really, really?)
YMMV of course. But bleach. And I did read a lot of them, so make of that what you will...
Five books I'd have added to it that are not on there.
1. Grass by Sherri Teppar
2. The Sparrow by Maria Doria Russel (and Children of God)
3. The Parable of the Sower by Octavia Butler
4. The Pride of Chanur by CJ Cherryh
5. Witchworld by Andre Norton
Those are better books and series than over half of the ones on there.
Also, I'd have kicked off Jim Butcher, and put instead Joan D. Vinge's Snow Queen.
Not to mention the Dragon Prince series by Mercedes Lackey.
Ugh.
2. On another note...I finished The Expanse finally and was rather impressed by it. Although S3 is not as good as S2, it does open things up in a way that makes S4 look interesting. It also brings in some new characters, and builds up new relationships. The female characters do rock in this series, more than in most. And it's among the few with a diverse cast. David Straithorn and Elizabeth Mitchell are added.
I'm looking forward to S4, which is to drop in December and am rather glad it got renewed.
Feeling somewhat aggravated lately. Not sure why. I think I'm frustrated with everything and people in particular, which is making me snappish. I will strive to do better.
no subject
Date: 2019-09-09 12:10 pm (UTC)Or , oh so many others on that list...it's a horrible list.