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Sep. 25th, 2019 10:42 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkat How the Impeachment Process Works
About two years ago..a woman from Sweden and I had the following discussion.
Swedish Woman: So, you are stuck with Trump for four years.
Me: No, he may be out before then. We're hardly stuck with him. I'm betting on impeachment.
Swedish Woman: How? You elected him. That would overturn your election and -
Me: No. It won't. We can impeach him.
Swedish Woman: But that's not possible, the people elected him that would be against your democratic process.
Me: well, first of all, no, the people didn't elect him the electoral college did, which isn't the same -- we're a republic not a democracy.
Swedish: Wait, what? You elected him. The majority did. That's how it works.
ME: No. We vote. The number of votes in each state determine how many electoral college votes go to each candidate/party. The number of electoral college votes is determined by the Constitution. Each state has a different number. For example NY may have 10 electoral votes, while Texas may say have 20. But NY has a bigger population, so say 12 million people in NY vote for Clinton, but 8 million in Texas vote for Trump, Trump wins based on those 20 electoral college votes, but Clinton got the majority.
Swedish Woman: So you're stuck with him?
Me: Well, not necessarily -- again there's impeachment. Where the House can decide to investigate and bring evidence against the President, and the trial is held in the Senate ...but you have to have grounds. And we've never had a successful presidential impeachment. It's not easy to do and takes a while.
Swedish Woman: Well, there's no way that can ever happen.
ME: It has happened several times before. It's just ...well involved. And they aren't often convicted, sometimes they resign first.
Swedish woman: When?
Me: Andrew Johnson, and Clinton -- although both got off. (Seriously they tried to impeach Clinton over the whole Monica Lewinsky bit, when there was evidence that the hypocritical assholes were doing the same thing themselves -- it came out later.) Nixon resigned before he could be impeached. Spiro Agnew, the VP was convicted of corruption. As a result of Spiro being convicted first, and a new VP appointed, we had a President who had not been elected in office.
Swedish Woman: Whoa. Has anyone actually been impeached?
Me: A few judges...
US governmental and legal system is complicated. There's a reason people attend three years of law school and have to pass a bar exam by state to practice law in the US. Most US citizens or lay-people don't get how our system works at all. Blame Alexander Hamilton for this nightmare. I watch people online get it wrong all the time. And heck, I know I made a few mistakes in that dialogue above...I didn't fact-check it and it was off the top of my head. The electoral college process alone is head-ache inducing, again, we can blame Hamilton and Monroe for that nightmare.
I barely understand and I was taught this stuff in law school.
About two years ago..a woman from Sweden and I had the following discussion.
Swedish Woman: So, you are stuck with Trump for four years.
Me: No, he may be out before then. We're hardly stuck with him. I'm betting on impeachment.
Swedish Woman: How? You elected him. That would overturn your election and -
Me: No. It won't. We can impeach him.
Swedish Woman: But that's not possible, the people elected him that would be against your democratic process.
Me: well, first of all, no, the people didn't elect him the electoral college did, which isn't the same -- we're a republic not a democracy.
Swedish: Wait, what? You elected him. The majority did. That's how it works.
ME: No. We vote. The number of votes in each state determine how many electoral college votes go to each candidate/party. The number of electoral college votes is determined by the Constitution. Each state has a different number. For example NY may have 10 electoral votes, while Texas may say have 20. But NY has a bigger population, so say 12 million people in NY vote for Clinton, but 8 million in Texas vote for Trump, Trump wins based on those 20 electoral college votes, but Clinton got the majority.
Swedish Woman: So you're stuck with him?
Me: Well, not necessarily -- again there's impeachment. Where the House can decide to investigate and bring evidence against the President, and the trial is held in the Senate ...but you have to have grounds. And we've never had a successful presidential impeachment. It's not easy to do and takes a while.
Swedish Woman: Well, there's no way that can ever happen.
ME: It has happened several times before. It's just ...well involved. And they aren't often convicted, sometimes they resign first.
Swedish woman: When?
Me: Andrew Johnson, and Clinton -- although both got off. (Seriously they tried to impeach Clinton over the whole Monica Lewinsky bit, when there was evidence that the hypocritical assholes were doing the same thing themselves -- it came out later.) Nixon resigned before he could be impeached. Spiro Agnew, the VP was convicted of corruption. As a result of Spiro being convicted first, and a new VP appointed, we had a President who had not been elected in office.
Swedish Woman: Whoa. Has anyone actually been impeached?
Me: A few judges...
US governmental and legal system is complicated. There's a reason people attend three years of law school and have to pass a bar exam by state to practice law in the US. Most US citizens or lay-people don't get how our system works at all. Blame Alexander Hamilton for this nightmare. I watch people online get it wrong all the time. And heck, I know I made a few mistakes in that dialogue above...I didn't fact-check it and it was off the top of my head. The electoral college process alone is head-ache inducing, again, we can blame Hamilton and Monroe for that nightmare.
I barely understand and I was taught this stuff in law school.
no subject
Date: 2019-09-26 12:40 pm (UTC)No, they really didn't. What we forget is they framed it right after fighting a brutal and divisive revolutionary war that not everyone had been in support of and there were huge divisions among them. Although, part of the reason it has happened rarely -- has a lot to do with the lack of information and (I can't remember which number amendment it is) the amendment that prevents anyone from being elected president for more than one eight year term. Once you've served an eight-year term, or two four-year terms, you are cut off. Back then, they didn't have that. And they lucked out because, Washington didn't want to be King and set a high precedent.
I honestly think there are quite a few who should have been impeached and weren't. Andrew Jackson should have been, Regan most definitely, and George W. Bush/Cheney. But they were protected and it was difficult to provide enough proof.