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shadowkatThe apartment hunting is not going well. It's become well complicated. And work, sigh, difficult and stressful. Windows 2010 reminds me a little of how Windows ME and Windows Vista - it's a nightmare. Things that used to take seconds take 20 minutes. And it's not the only new system they are implementing. The thing of it is, and bear with me as I attempt to find the words to explain myself, - is they are taking what was once simple and complicating it to the extent that it takes longer to do the work and when we try to fix problems, new one's occur. The reason this has happened is simple - the creators of Windows 2010 wanted to please everyone - they added every possible thing imaginable. They were in a nutshell trying to do too much. And as a result what once was a simple program, become complicated.
Been thinking about this a lot lately, because it is a recurring theme in my life of late. At the Haitian Forum it struck me that this was part of the problem - the forum felt a bit chaotic. All these ideas, all these solutions, all these problems, no consensus. It reminded me a little of
my old Legislative Class professor in Law School's speech about how government in a nutshell was organized chaos. Basically what happens is everyone picks out a problem and throws it into a hat, they don't agree on what the main problem is. Then everyone has a solution and throws it into a hat, because they do not agree on what the solution should be. And you just pick them out of the hat. What my professor did not know is that is basically true about most democratically run or for that matter large organizations where there is no clear guiding voice. At the forum - there were too many ideas and no real coherent solutions. I left it feeling frustrated and scattered. Overwhelmed. Drunk on information. Felt the same way after seeing four-five apartments this week and four to five last weekend. Overwhelmed and frustrated. Clarity gone.
If you know me at all, you'll realize how ironic it is for me to complain about people complicating things. For since I was a little girl, my parents used to say - your problem is you complicate everything. You are a complicator, sk. I try not to be. But my stories always got convoluted. And my papers in school - even more so. Instead of selecting something simple - I went after what was complicated. And most of the stories I wrote had that problem - convoluted plots.
Last night, I tried to watch the third episode of Sherlock a second time. Made it all the way through, even though I kept rewinding every ten to fifteen minutes because my mind wandered.
Spoke to a friend about it today, who'd also seen the episode. And also had difficulty following it. I thought it was just me. That my brain was on overload or something. No, said my friend, it was a confusing episode, drug in places, didn't make sense in others, ended on a cliffhanger and the lead character, Sherlock, was a bit too over-the-top - to the point in which he was almost not believable. In short it was a mess. I paused and thought about it. My friend was right - the writer and director of that episode was trying to do too much. The title of the episode was The Game - and it had two complex interlocking mysteries going on at the same time, plus this mysterious third character who may or may not be involved in both (my guess - just the one).
Also this weekend, I bought, read, and reviewed the latest Buffy Comic - Issue 38 - and after reading numerous metas and reviews, it hit me why the views on this comic, much like the Sherlock episode I described above are all over the map, and diametrically opposed. The comic has the same central flaw in structure that the Sherlock episode does. It tries to do too much and in doing so, falls flat on its face.
I vividly remember a Creative Writing instructor tearing me apart in class in undergrad over a story I'd written. He told me - and it was painful at the time, which explains I suppose why it stuck with me - what was wrong with my story. I remember his face scrunching up when he said it, puffed cheeks below rounded spectacles. He was not a big man. And whenever I think of him, for some reason in my head I see Lewis Carroll or some character out of Alice in Wonderland. Perhaps it was his voice? At any rate what he said was - you have to give your reader certain clues, a road map of sorts before they enter your story. They have to know the setting, the time, the place, who the characters are. Those things can't be the puzzle. I thought at the time he'd never read Beckett and may have muttered as much for he said in response, there is a big difference between a writer like Beckett and say William S. Burroughs and what you did here. Those writers provide the reader with a compass. Your story is so open to interpretation that you had five different views and all could be correct. That's a problem. The advice stuck.
And I find myself looking at two stories I'd been enjoying, yet was less than thrilled with this weekend - thinking these writers did the same thing I did. They overshot the target. They tried to do too much, and over-complicated their tale to the extent that the characters got lost, and the theme or multiple themes took over. The story instead of being a story became what can best be described as a bit of a mess.
It's like looking at a mathematical equation if you will, and you calculate it in say excel (computer program) and then on your calculator, and then on paper - and you get three different answers. Why? You fuss over it for hours, until finally you hit upon the simple explanation that it had to do with the rounding. Excel rounded the numbers one way, the calculator didn't at all, and well when you added them on paper, you may have rounded some and not others. The answer depends on what calculated it.
Story analysis or interpretation is much the same way. It depends on who is looking at it. And if the story is complicated, with lots of ideas plugged into it, and does not provide a clear and coherent or even straight forward plot - the interpretations will vary widely. If for example you aren't told when the story is taking place exactly - just that it takes place sometime after the events of the last book or tv episode, then your analysis of that tale varies based on when you think it takes place in the timeline. Same deal with character analysis - your view of Angel in the Buffy comics may well have a lot to do with how you viewed Angel's relationship with his son Connor. I've noticed that many of the people who are enjoying the comics and not having problems with Angel's portrayal in them, either were ambivalent about Connor, did not like Connor, did not know about Connor, or thought Connor was unimportant. They equally did not consider Angel's obsession with family important. Or his need to protect his family. While those who loved this aspect of Angel's character, can't quite wrap their mind around it being missing in the comics.
Add to that how you view family - not everyone views it the same way. Some people see family as the most important thing, friends are transistory, family for keeps, other's well the opposite.
When I read fanfic - I've noticed that with few exceptions, there are a bunch of warnings or headers. This is true of all fanfic not specific to one show or another. Example:
Author:
Rating: R for smut, language
Pairings:
BTVS Season 2, February
And in some cases there will be something like - takes place after such and such story that I wrote or this is in Scotland. Etc.
But we are told up front...when it takes place and what is canon. This is based in S2 BTVS and takes place in Feburary. If you don't tell the reader when it takes place and what took place before it upfront, you have to do the work and state it in the story. IF you don't the reader is left filling the blanks themselves, never a good idea. The more blanks you leave for the reader to fill in, the more ways they can interpret your story differently than you intended.
A lot of writers want to fool readers, trick them, so they can shock them later with a big reveal.
That's great. But it only works if your reader is given a few bread crumbs to follow you to the reveal. If you spend all your time giving them red herrings to send them scurrying elsewhere, by the time the reveal happens - your reader will be lost in another book or story, and have forgotten you. Reader's have short attention spans. You have to give your reader a few clues, let them in on the joke a bit. The plot-twist or surprise should not be the main focus of the story.
Agatha Christie was a master at plot-twists (that is until you read 20 of them...and started to figure out her technique but still a master. My favorites were Curtain and Murder on the Orient Express). But she led the reader to them. And perhaps the best plot twist in the Buffy TV series was Angel losing his soul after sleeping with Buffy and turning into her worst nightmare. That twist worked on all levels, tracked, made sense, and here's the thing? Simple. It was clear because it was simple. Not complicated.
Plots should always be simple. Make your characters complicated. Your plots simple. This I've learned the hard way. If you make your characters complicated - your plot will become interesting, because your characters will pull it forward. Use the plot to explore the character. That I've been told so many times, I've lost track. And every time I read or see a tv show or book that tries to do the opposite, I realize why it just does not work. The EVENT is an excellent of a tv series that has a complicated plot but simple characters and as a result is a bit of a mess.
While LOST in direct contrast is a fairly simple plot - a bunch of characters get stuck on an island and have to find their way off of it. The complexities in the plot come from the characters.
The mystery of the island really isn't important - it is a metaphor for the characters who are lost on it. All the flaws with LOST can be laid at the plot's door - when the plot got convoluted, it lost the audience and the story, along with its characters. Same with BSG - when BSG stayed simple - about people fleeing an apocalypse and trying to survive while being pursued by their own creations...it worked. When it got increasingly convoluted plot-wise and tried to handle one too many themes and threads...it lost its way.
Every critique of every show or book I've read seems to state - the plot makes no sense or its convoluted or it has multiple interpretations. Look at Dollhouse - that show fell flat on its face because it could not decide what it wanted to be. It was trying to be too many things at once.
And the plot was all over the place.
While Buffy - the TV show worked because it was fairly simple in plot structure, the characters were what was complicated.
I'm not saying complicated is bad, but sometimes it can lead to confusion and incoherence. A complicated plot can often get in the way of the emotional impact of the story the writer or teller is trying to relate. Simple is good. And this comes from a gal who is notorious at complicating her stories and art merely to entertain herself.
Been thinking about this a lot lately, because it is a recurring theme in my life of late. At the Haitian Forum it struck me that this was part of the problem - the forum felt a bit chaotic. All these ideas, all these solutions, all these problems, no consensus. It reminded me a little of
my old Legislative Class professor in Law School's speech about how government in a nutshell was organized chaos. Basically what happens is everyone picks out a problem and throws it into a hat, they don't agree on what the main problem is. Then everyone has a solution and throws it into a hat, because they do not agree on what the solution should be. And you just pick them out of the hat. What my professor did not know is that is basically true about most democratically run or for that matter large organizations where there is no clear guiding voice. At the forum - there were too many ideas and no real coherent solutions. I left it feeling frustrated and scattered. Overwhelmed. Drunk on information. Felt the same way after seeing four-five apartments this week and four to five last weekend. Overwhelmed and frustrated. Clarity gone.
If you know me at all, you'll realize how ironic it is for me to complain about people complicating things. For since I was a little girl, my parents used to say - your problem is you complicate everything. You are a complicator, sk. I try not to be. But my stories always got convoluted. And my papers in school - even more so. Instead of selecting something simple - I went after what was complicated. And most of the stories I wrote had that problem - convoluted plots.
Last night, I tried to watch the third episode of Sherlock a second time. Made it all the way through, even though I kept rewinding every ten to fifteen minutes because my mind wandered.
Spoke to a friend about it today, who'd also seen the episode. And also had difficulty following it. I thought it was just me. That my brain was on overload or something. No, said my friend, it was a confusing episode, drug in places, didn't make sense in others, ended on a cliffhanger and the lead character, Sherlock, was a bit too over-the-top - to the point in which he was almost not believable. In short it was a mess. I paused and thought about it. My friend was right - the writer and director of that episode was trying to do too much. The title of the episode was The Game - and it had two complex interlocking mysteries going on at the same time, plus this mysterious third character who may or may not be involved in both (my guess - just the one).
Also this weekend, I bought, read, and reviewed the latest Buffy Comic - Issue 38 - and after reading numerous metas and reviews, it hit me why the views on this comic, much like the Sherlock episode I described above are all over the map, and diametrically opposed. The comic has the same central flaw in structure that the Sherlock episode does. It tries to do too much and in doing so, falls flat on its face.
I vividly remember a Creative Writing instructor tearing me apart in class in undergrad over a story I'd written. He told me - and it was painful at the time, which explains I suppose why it stuck with me - what was wrong with my story. I remember his face scrunching up when he said it, puffed cheeks below rounded spectacles. He was not a big man. And whenever I think of him, for some reason in my head I see Lewis Carroll or some character out of Alice in Wonderland. Perhaps it was his voice? At any rate what he said was - you have to give your reader certain clues, a road map of sorts before they enter your story. They have to know the setting, the time, the place, who the characters are. Those things can't be the puzzle. I thought at the time he'd never read Beckett and may have muttered as much for he said in response, there is a big difference between a writer like Beckett and say William S. Burroughs and what you did here. Those writers provide the reader with a compass. Your story is so open to interpretation that you had five different views and all could be correct. That's a problem. The advice stuck.
And I find myself looking at two stories I'd been enjoying, yet was less than thrilled with this weekend - thinking these writers did the same thing I did. They overshot the target. They tried to do too much, and over-complicated their tale to the extent that the characters got lost, and the theme or multiple themes took over. The story instead of being a story became what can best be described as a bit of a mess.
It's like looking at a mathematical equation if you will, and you calculate it in say excel (computer program) and then on your calculator, and then on paper - and you get three different answers. Why? You fuss over it for hours, until finally you hit upon the simple explanation that it had to do with the rounding. Excel rounded the numbers one way, the calculator didn't at all, and well when you added them on paper, you may have rounded some and not others. The answer depends on what calculated it.
Story analysis or interpretation is much the same way. It depends on who is looking at it. And if the story is complicated, with lots of ideas plugged into it, and does not provide a clear and coherent or even straight forward plot - the interpretations will vary widely. If for example you aren't told when the story is taking place exactly - just that it takes place sometime after the events of the last book or tv episode, then your analysis of that tale varies based on when you think it takes place in the timeline. Same deal with character analysis - your view of Angel in the Buffy comics may well have a lot to do with how you viewed Angel's relationship with his son Connor. I've noticed that many of the people who are enjoying the comics and not having problems with Angel's portrayal in them, either were ambivalent about Connor, did not like Connor, did not know about Connor, or thought Connor was unimportant. They equally did not consider Angel's obsession with family important. Or his need to protect his family. While those who loved this aspect of Angel's character, can't quite wrap their mind around it being missing in the comics.
Add to that how you view family - not everyone views it the same way. Some people see family as the most important thing, friends are transistory, family for keeps, other's well the opposite.
When I read fanfic - I've noticed that with few exceptions, there are a bunch of warnings or headers. This is true of all fanfic not specific to one show or another. Example:
Author:
Rating: R for smut, language
Pairings:
BTVS Season 2, February
And in some cases there will be something like - takes place after such and such story that I wrote or this is in Scotland. Etc.
But we are told up front...when it takes place and what is canon. This is based in S2 BTVS and takes place in Feburary. If you don't tell the reader when it takes place and what took place before it upfront, you have to do the work and state it in the story. IF you don't the reader is left filling the blanks themselves, never a good idea. The more blanks you leave for the reader to fill in, the more ways they can interpret your story differently than you intended.
A lot of writers want to fool readers, trick them, so they can shock them later with a big reveal.
That's great. But it only works if your reader is given a few bread crumbs to follow you to the reveal. If you spend all your time giving them red herrings to send them scurrying elsewhere, by the time the reveal happens - your reader will be lost in another book or story, and have forgotten you. Reader's have short attention spans. You have to give your reader a few clues, let them in on the joke a bit. The plot-twist or surprise should not be the main focus of the story.
Agatha Christie was a master at plot-twists (that is until you read 20 of them...and started to figure out her technique but still a master. My favorites were Curtain and Murder on the Orient Express). But she led the reader to them. And perhaps the best plot twist in the Buffy TV series was Angel losing his soul after sleeping with Buffy and turning into her worst nightmare. That twist worked on all levels, tracked, made sense, and here's the thing? Simple. It was clear because it was simple. Not complicated.
Plots should always be simple. Make your characters complicated. Your plots simple. This I've learned the hard way. If you make your characters complicated - your plot will become interesting, because your characters will pull it forward. Use the plot to explore the character. That I've been told so many times, I've lost track. And every time I read or see a tv show or book that tries to do the opposite, I realize why it just does not work. The EVENT is an excellent of a tv series that has a complicated plot but simple characters and as a result is a bit of a mess.
While LOST in direct contrast is a fairly simple plot - a bunch of characters get stuck on an island and have to find their way off of it. The complexities in the plot come from the characters.
The mystery of the island really isn't important - it is a metaphor for the characters who are lost on it. All the flaws with LOST can be laid at the plot's door - when the plot got convoluted, it lost the audience and the story, along with its characters. Same with BSG - when BSG stayed simple - about people fleeing an apocalypse and trying to survive while being pursued by their own creations...it worked. When it got increasingly convoluted plot-wise and tried to handle one too many themes and threads...it lost its way.
Every critique of every show or book I've read seems to state - the plot makes no sense or its convoluted or it has multiple interpretations. Look at Dollhouse - that show fell flat on its face because it could not decide what it wanted to be. It was trying to be too many things at once.
And the plot was all over the place.
While Buffy - the TV show worked because it was fairly simple in plot structure, the characters were what was complicated.
I'm not saying complicated is bad, but sometimes it can lead to confusion and incoherence. A complicated plot can often get in the way of the emotional impact of the story the writer or teller is trying to relate. Simple is good. And this comes from a gal who is notorious at complicating her stories and art merely to entertain herself.
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Date: 2010-11-10 10:03 am (UTC)Anyway, I've been saying all along that the lack of knowledge about what happened between Chosen and The Long Way Home #1 is a big problem. Not just because we're unsure when, but because so many decisions were taken without us knowing why - why bank robbing, why the castle, why is Dawn a giant... (Oh wait, they did get round to that after a couple of years.) There's been a disconnect since the start and asking the audience to fill in the blanks themselves is not a good strategy.
no subject
Date: 2010-11-10 11:36 pm (UTC)Too much is left out.
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Date: 2010-11-10 02:30 pm (UTC)While pondering season 8 some more (there is this desperate feeling inside of me to somehow save the remnants of the only TV show i ever fell in love with...) something else came to my mind (and, naturally, now i have to copy+paste it into every comment i make ;-)):
Looking at my comic book shelf (mostly filled with french artists) most stories there have two to four times the pages for probably half the time frame. So, it is not really the comic book format - but more precisely the us-american superhero genre of it. Season 8 feels like a film with only 2 takes per minute. (Or long streches of story which happen off screen and aren't even mentioned.)
The plot actually became confusing the moment the author transformed the main story line (into a romance). Since then (space porn) one twist after another bombarded the narrative. Up until then, the plot was actually quite straight forward (apart from the lame - CLIFFHANGER!!! Buy the next issue!!!).
Btw. i read Your answer on Your other thread and i agree: I heard about the wonder woman background story some time ago (here on LJ - did You make a post some month ago about that?).
Season 8 feels as if "some other plot" was forced onto the whole thing. And too much with not enough effort ("i'll write this on the weekend's evening hours and it will ALL FIT IN!" ;-)).
Plus, was i feel is way too few pages/issues for too much time frame shown/played.
no subject
Date: 2010-11-10 05:57 pm (UTC)there is this desperate feeling inside of me to somehow save the remnants of the only TV show i ever fell in love with...)
Having similar issues myself. ;-)
Season 8 feels like a film with only 2 takes per minute. (Or long streches of story which happen off screen and aren't even mentioned.)
Agreed, as moscow_watcher stated in her post on issue 38, it's a bit like watching Becoming over the space of five to six months, with each 15 minute arc presented one day once a month, and you have to wait another month to get the next 15 minutes.
Add to this the gaps. So when we get the comic - we get what 1/4 of the story? 3/4ths of it appears to be left off the page. And the frustrating part is? It's the stuff Whedon left off the page that I want to know about.
The plot actually became confusing the moment the author transformed the main story line (into a romance). Since then (space porn) one twist after another bombarded the narrative. .
Agreed. I could actually follow the thing up to issue 34. Issue 34 and everything that came after...lost me.
Also it wasn't the space porn that bugged me in issue 34, it was the exposition spouted by Giles that made me want to strangle the writers. I mean it's what cartoon sex? Yes, silly, but when you combine it with the exposition that we got from Giles ...I think, damn, that...retcons the entire BTVS series in a way that makes me want to throw out my DVDs and send hate mail to the writer.
I say that, while realizing at the same time where Whedon was trying to go with this...which I think aycheb articulated. But he gets bogged down in preaching his outrage at Hollywood and the horror genre for it's continued exploitation of women, not realizing that in his outrage or attempts to satirize this - he's mainly adding to it.
I heard about the wonder woman background story some time ago (here on LJ - did You make a post some month ago about that?).
Yes. I made a couple of references to it and even wrote a lengthy post. Because for quite some time now, I've wondered if the problem with Buffy S8 is it is well Whedon's substitution for Wonder Woman or his way of working through his issues with the Wonder Woman script failure.
("i'll write this on the weekend's evening hours and it will ALL FIT IN!" ;-)).
I think that may well be the problem. As evidenced by the fact that Whedon has apparently jumped ship leaving the comic in the hands of his editor and artist to finish, with just a few comments here and there.
This is pure speculation on my part - but I think initially this was a fantastic arc on paper, when Whedon and Meltzer first pitched it to Dark Horse? 22 issues like the tv series. And spread out over a two year period. But Dark Horse got greedy and most likely persuaded Whedon to extend it to 40 issues, much like IDW persuaded Lynch to extend his from 12 to 20. At the time, it wasn't an issue - Whedon was between projects. But then Dollhouse came up, and Cabin in the Woods, and time wore on...and well...shit happens.
That of course does not explain why he chose to start the thing sometime after Chosen (we're never told how long after Chosen this takes place, it could be anywhere from one year to five). Or why he chose not to fill in the backstory between Chosen and these comics if only through flashbacks - certainly had plenty of issues to do it in. Instead he focuses on exploring his issues and themes, but the characters - his main ones? Barely any exploration at all or explanation. We're never told why Buffy robbed the bank, we are left to speculate - it could be for finances, it could be for fun, it could be any number of reasons. We're never told when or how Buffy found out about Spike being alive - again left to speculation. Nor why they are in Scotland.
no subject
Date: 2010-11-10 05:39 pm (UTC)I think the problems with S8's story are too legion to be narrowed down. There isn't a whole lot of good anywhere, in my opinion. Like you said, the strength of Joss's writing has always been characters. In the comics, he's sold them out wholesale for a plot that is basically a tantrum.
For the most part, I think Joss finished the story in Chosen and then decided to reopen the door to tell a story that didn't fit in that world. The thing about Joss is, he's a weekend revolutionary. He can offer all the commentary in the world on what is wrong with something, but when it comes time to make a statement of his own, he shies away. Thus we get Buffy inexplicably forming an army and robbing banks with no explanation whatsoever just so Joss can say it's bad. No shit, Joss, we knew that and so did the characters.
That's just the tip of the iceberg without getting into Jeanty being the wrong choice--that's a taste thing--and being given too much leeway to do what he wanted. That isn't a taste thing. The audience doesn't know what means what, because the artist doesn't, most likely because the writers' don't, either.
no subject
Date: 2010-11-10 07:16 pm (UTC)Another book on writing that I have somewhere states that you should be capable of encapsulating the outward goal of a story somewhat easily (even if the interior parts of the story are complex). Outwardly, Atonement is a story about a woman writing fiction account of events trying to 'correct' the wrongs of her past. Pride and Prejudice is about how first impressions and ego keeps a pair of potential lovers apart. The Hunger Games is a story of a girl thrown into a gladitorial contest where only one person can walk out alive. Buffy the Vampire Slayer was about a girl called to fight demons but who wanted to be a normal girl. Simple outward goal, even if there's a whole hell of a lot more going on. There's more to the characters, more to the metaphors, more to the story than those simple, goal-stating premises, but this is the foundational structure upon which those more complex things hang. It's difficult to describe what it is that Season 8's goal actually is Defeat Twilight? Who is that? Masked Twangel? The place, Happy-go-funland? The 'intelligent' universe? The time, the "twilight" of the demi-gods? Miss Twilight Kitty herself? All of the above? But what about the General? The seed? Was this what Buffy was fighting all along when it looks like she stumbled into it? And, really, this is just the last arc. It's pretty difficult to even remember where it all started except there was a giant Dawn and a centaur Dawn, and a lot of castles. No wonder people come up with so many interpretations when the plot goal has had so many incarnations and are so changeable that people keep changing their minds about what it's even about. If the foundation this is hung on is so confusing, by the times you futz around with ships, deaths, returning characters, OOC behavior, and all the 'this is cool' shit, it's hard to determine what it's about.
(Er... hope that makes any sense. I've taken my fair share of cold medicine this morning. This cold sucks!)
Agreed - Restless vs. S8
Date: 2010-11-10 11:19 pm (UTC)Been thinking about this today and I think a good way of showing what works and what doesn't structurally is to actually compare the narrative structure of S8 to the S4 episode Restless, which I think someone on my flist tried to do and it didn't work for me. They stated that the S8 Comics were like Restless, brilliant in that same stream-of-consciousness narrative way. Didn't figure out why their statement didn't work for me until today.
Why does Restless work and Buffy S8 not work?
Restless - the following things are made clear in Restless:
1. When does the episode take place? Immediately after the spell in Primeval, where Willow, Xander, Giles, and Buffy joined forces to call upon the power of the first slayer to defeat Adam.
2. Where does it take place? In Buffy's home, and inside the heads of Willow, Xander, Giles and Buffy while they are asleep.
3. POV - it is the point of view of Buffy, Willow, Xander and Giles.
4. Length - one episode - we know it will be concluded at the end of 43 minutes.
5. What is the problem or task? Buffy must defeat the first slayer who has entered her dream and her friends, by confronting her own fears and insecurities. Take the Initiative as it were, before the first slayer kills them all.
6. Who is the bad guy: The first slayer
7.What caused it - their spell to eradicate Adam.
Each act is a different dream - with a clear through line, the first slayer and the cheese man connecting each dream. Each dream deals directly with the internal fears and insecurities of the characters - their own monsters so to speak. The dreams also show us their psychological and emotional journey - which lies ahead.
Season 8:
1. When does this story take place? Anywhere from six months to five years after Chosen (we don't know). And several centuries before Fray (Assuming of course Fray is still in the same time line)
2. What happened immediately before? We don't know.
3. Where does it take place: England, Scotland, Sunnydale, Tibet, and pretty much everywhere including outer-space.
4. Whose point of view is it in? Everyone's and possibly ominiscent - depends on the issue.
5. Length? 40 issues over course of 5 years.
6. Who is the big bad? No clue - might be Twangel, might be Buffy, might be the Universe, might be humanity, might be Flying!Kitty - right now, going with Flying!Kitty.
7. What caused it? The empowerment spell in Chosen or Angel being seduced by Twilight....it's not really clear.
8. What's the main task or problem to be solved? Your guess is as good as mine.
9. What's the main theme? See 8.
Granted Restless was just one episode, and S8 is a whole season, but...if we compare it to well any of the Seasons, we can answer those 9 questions fairly clearly or at least the first four.
I know for example that S7 starts five to six months after Grave, and that the big bad is The First, and the task is to find a way to defeat the First, to share power. And I know in S6, which is a bit muddled in places, that it takes place four or five months after Buffy died (195 days as Spike tells it)
and that the goal of that Season is Buffy to find her purpose again and to not be suicidal.
Even Angel - S4, we know when the story takes place, whose pov we are in (Angel's), who the big bad is - Jasmine. What the goal is - to defeat Jasmine, because free will and not being devoured is better than wandering about in mindless bliss.
But in S8...many of these things are open to interpretation. I've seen debates on when the season takes place and what canon is included and what isn't. The jury is still out on how much if any of the IDW comics factor into the story. If we assume that the IDW comics do factor into the story - that means it has to take place at least two to three years after Chosen, because Angel gets approached by Twilight and begins his Twilight crusade before The Long Way Home (at least that's my guess).
It's one thing to debate character motivations, themes, and metaphors - but to debate factual things such as when? You know there's a problem with your story if your readers are still asking you when it takes place after four years.