The Unpopular Fan Opinion Meme Thingy

[shadowkat]

The Unpopular Fannish Opinion meme that I'm swiping from buffyannatator. **Note the purpose of the meme is to come up with opinions that will most likely annoy your flist and make them flee in disgust. ie. I would never admit these things on fanboards, perish the thought.


1. Favorite Star Trek was, wait for it...Voyager. Yes, start the rotten tomatoe throwing now. But I liked the characters the best in this one. Kate Mulgrew was my favorite Captain. And I adored the romance between the half-Klingon and the bad-boy Enterprise spy. It's the only one I think I watched all the episodes of, or at least 90% of them. STNG being next.

2. Never understood the appeal of Star Gate: SG1 or Star-Gate:Atlantis, although I think I like the spin-off better. Just couldn't get into them. Won't miss them. Found the fact they were on all the time on Sci-Fi sort of annoying.

3. I like Sawyer on Lost. I actually still like Lost - yes, I know 90% of my flist has given up on it. It's been reamed up oneside and down the other. But I find the whole existentialist social psychologists on crack story line fascinating. Annoying at times, true. But also oddly engrossing.

4. I prefered the latter Seasons of Buffy The Vampire Slayer to the earlier ones and feel no desire or inclination to rewatch S1-3 again. In fact, to add insult to injury, I think S7 and S6 may in fact be my favorite seasons at the moment and possibly the best. This will no doubt shock anyone who read my critique of S7. But I can be critical of things I love. Oh, and yes, I watched the series in real time. I found the high school storyline in retrospect to be somewhat trite and easy and predictable, while the older storyline depicted in the last four seasons was more experimental and took more risks. The writers sort of said the same things in commentaries, stating how they would never have gotten away with that in Season 1 or 2 or 3, when they were worried about cancellation. Watching the last three seasons, in particular the last two, fascinates me, because you can see everything that happens in them predicted in the episode "Restless" that aired at the end of S4. The writer laid out a road map and he follows it to the letter. Even to the extent that he does things he knows could lose his audience and get the show booted off the air. Edge of one's seat tv. No comfort zones. And brutal at times. I loved it. And yes, I know lots of people didn't. That's why this little paragraph is point four on my list.

5. Don't like Bones, CSI, Law and Order, Cold Case, Numbers, Without A Trace, Criminal Minds, Medium,
and NCIS, for the same reasons. Can't get into them. Find them predictable. Unbelievable. And They put me to sleep. Also don't really see much distinction between them. Watching them makes me miss the mystery of the week shows that proceeded them, which I felt were better written and actually focused on characters and not silly gimmicks: Homicide Life on The Street, NYPD Blue, The Profiler, Millenium, Angel, Prime Suspect, Cracker, Remington Steel, Moonlighting, Cagney and Lacey, Judging Amy.

6. Boston Legal - just not my cup of tea. I loved James Spader's turn as Alan Shore on the last season of the Practice, and William Shatner's guest-star gig. Also Rebecca De-Morney kicked ass.
But Boston Legal is just too silly and over the top for me.

7. My favorite male character on BSG is Apollo. Yes, still. And I am a Starbuck/Apollo shipper, because their relationship is sooo painful, yet also sooo real. I know, I know, people hate Apollo, think he's an ass, etc. But I like him. And I think Jamie Bamber the actor who plays him is hot.

8. Don't get the Wentworth Miller love, he's pretty I guess but looks a bit like a Ken Doll in my eyes. Just. No. Nor do I understand the appeal of Prison Break. I've tried to watch it, it just bores me.

9. Don't care about Meredith or Derek. If these characters disappeared from the show, it would not bother me. I'm actually sort of rooting for Addison and Alex to get together. Or an Addison/Alex/Izzy/McSteamy/Calli/George mess. That would be interesting. Meredith - eh. She's more interesting when she isn't worrying over Derek. And I sort of wish she'd ended up with Finn, although I think McDreamy, Finn, and McSteamy all look alike.

Okay what else can I come up with?

Drawing a blank. I'd say I hate reality shows, except I do watch Project Runway and I'm not certain that's an unpopular fan opinion? I'm not crazy about Gilmore Girls any more, yet still torturing myself by watching it? Nah. Sitcoms generally bore me? True. With a few exceptions here and there and while not a fan of Scrubs, have found it entertaining at times.
Supernatural - do not get the love. Again, not entirely true - I do get it, just don't share it. Except for the occassionally clever depictions of old urban legends which amuse me.
Farscape was better in my opinion than Star Trek? Nah. Ahh... I got a good one that I've never revealed online before for fear of getting screamed at. This is a killer.

10. Amber Benson - while I liked the character well enough, was glad Whedon killed her because I liked the darkWillow storyline and knew Whedon was going there since Restless. And I thought it was more interesting. Would have been seriously disappointed if he hadn't gone through with it. In fact, was looking forward to it. Adore Villians through Grave. I'm also very glad that Amber did not reprise the role, so Whedon could not bring her back to life and ruin what I thought was a believable arc for the characters. Also Amber's habit of stuttering when she played Tara, annoyed the hell out of me. Was very happy when she kicked that habit sometime in S6.

Comments

[buffyannotater.livejournal.com]

I'm glad you did the meme! This is a great post.

2. Never understood the appeal of Star Gate: SG1 or Star-Gate:Atlantis, although I think I like the spin-off better. Just couldn't get into them. Won't miss them. Found the fact they were on all the time on Sci-Fi sort of annoying.

Agreed. Of course, when it first came to SciFi, it was also one of the indirect deciding factors in Farscape's cancellation, which really annoyed me and lots and lots of people. Because Farscape's ratings never dropped. They basically remained the same. When SciFi brought on Stargate from Showtime, however, the ratings were so much larger than Farscape that Farscape seemed to be a ratings failure by comparison. It was beyond irritating at the time that SciFi gave preferential treatment to a show that they had bought from another network and ditched their own original series, and particularly one that was so much more intelligent and complex than Stargate. I've mostly forgiven them now, though, since the miniseries finished the arc so beautifully. But it was very irritating at the time to see Stargate playing all the time, whereas it was almost impossible to find a Farscape rerun.

4. Fully agreed about Buffy's later seasons being superior, although my favorite was probably the fifth.

6. I love Boston Legal. Actually, it's funny. My mom's a lawyer and always hated watching legal shows, like "Why would I want to do this all day as a job and then come home and watch a show about people doing my job?" But she watched one episode with me and was completely hooked. Really just a matter of taste. The show can be almost indefensibly silly and over-the-top, but for some reason, it is the perfect show for me. I can't explain why but I just love it.

7. My favorite male character on BSG is Apollo. Yes, still. And I am a Starbuck/Apollo shipper, because their relationship is sooo painful, yet also sooo real. I know, I know, people hate Apollo, think he's an ass, etc. But I like him. And I think Jamie Bamber the actor who plays him is hot.

Agreed.

8. I don't get Wentworth Miller either. I don't find him particularly attractive. Not that he's particularly unattractive, but I don't get why everyone swoons. Meh.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Hee. Thanks.

I should probably give Boston Legal another try - but it's opposite Nip/Tuck and I can't watch both unfortunately. Also, while Nip/Tuck is not the best this year, I'm still curious.
I'm like your Mom regarding legal shows, they bug me. I see the flaws. Thinking of trying BL again maybe via re-runs, just because the cast is to die for.

Ugh. The Star-Gate thing. It's been driving me nuts this past year - when I wanted to catch BSG episodes I missed on Sci-Fi, but nooo, they were re-running Star-Gate 24/7. Literally. I can only imagine how bad it was when Farscape was on. Actually it was annoying when I got into Farscape and had to set up my tapes to tape all the episodes from morning til evening for the two month period before the mini-series aired. (I watched them at night). If I missed one - I was out of luck, and I did, I missed four due to tape malfunctions. Did Sci-Fi repeat them?
Nooo. Instead after the mini aired, they showed Star-Gate all the time. Even when I was taping them, they would insert two Star-Gate episodes in the mix, so I'd end up with SG1 episodes instead of Farscape.

I've watched the show. Attempted to like it. And ...well, the only episode I liked was their 200th episode, where they do a five second parody of Farscape. So when news broke that they were cancelling the series and the movies would go direct to DVD, I secretly did a happy dance.
LOL!

I keep changing my mind amongst the last four seasons on which is my favorite. Before I began to rewatch them - it was Season 5, which feels the tightest plot and storywise. And yes, I'm amongst the few people who thought Glory/Ben was an innovative villain. But S6 and 7 have a couple of my favorite episodes between them. So at the moment its a toss-up between 6 and 7.

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

LOL
loved the meme...but I agree 100% on #2, and 90% on #4 (I would list my favorite seasons of BtVS as 4,6 & 7)
I have no problems with your #8 & #9 because I don't watch those shows and don't know who any of those characters are (so I can't very well be offended, huh?)
And I mostly agree w/you on #10, except that I really didn't like the character much so I didn't mind seeing her die (like I had never liked Fred and I rejoiced in replacing her with Illyria, who I loved).

So I'm counting that as: I agree w/you 50% of the time, and the rest are things I don't care deeply enough to argue about....
but I think I'll wrack my brain and see what I can come up with (starting with having opinions about Harry Potter which I know would annoy my flist...)

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

It's hard to do. But a great way of seeing commonalities of interest. ;-)

I agree on Illyria. Fred was getting to be a terrible Mary Sue by the last season. She could do everything under the sun and every guy in the cast had a thing for her. EVERY one. Evidence that writers should not hire and write for actors they have huge crushes on.

I loved Illyria however. Amy Acker blew me away with her performance as Illyria.

Been rewatching the last four seasons of BTVS, which you can watch without watching/rewatching the first three. And they are brilliant in places. Especially 4 which sets up the last three beautifully. My favorite? It switches depending on my mood.

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

"Fred was getting to be a terrible Mary Sue by the last season."
Oh yes, this was driving me crazy, like she was some kind of brainiac femme fatale, I couldn't believe it.
You'll have to check out my Unpopular Fan Opinion as see if I upset you at all!

[arethusa2.livejournal.com]

They didn't use Fred well. The best Fred moments were during Angelus' return, when she seemed a lot more realistic, and there were fewer girly flourishes. I wanted to see a lot more of the brilliant, damaged girl, not America's Sweetheart. Still, I hated to see her die, until I realized how utterly awesome Illyria was. It was worth it for that performance.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Agreed. My favorite Fred episodes - were when she was a little darker. I liked Supersymmetry for instance. Also enjoyed Magic Bullet. Her romances with Gunn and Wes never worked for me.

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

Oh you have hit it on the nose: Fred struggling on her own (or mostly on her on) in Supersymmetry and Magic Bullet were brilliant episodes and she did a great job with her desperation and ingenuity. Those are definitely the two 'Fred' episodes where I completely identified and cared about Fred.

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

I like Sawyer too now, after being irritated by him for the whole first season. I like the way that the series, so far, isn't taking him at his own valuation, and is also willing to let him do really bad things rather than "sexy bad boy" things.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Yeah, it's what I'm liking. Oddly I find him more interesting with the lank hair. He's a con man and people keep out-conning him. LOL!!

[cjlasky.livejournal.com]

1) No tomatoes here: I loved Voyager. Maddeningly inconsistent, but at times mind-boggling, brilliant. I found most of the male characters boring (Tuvok was the exception), but Janeway, Torres, Kes, 7? Nothing but love. TNG is my favorite Trek, and Picard is my favorite captain, but I'm still entertained by Voyager reruns whenever they pop up on regular TV...

2) Aw, am I the only one on this flist who liked SG-1?

3) I could get into the social psychology angle of LOST if I felt confident that Lindelhof and Cuse could somehow pull all the threads of the narrative together in a cohesive and satisfying fashion. I don't.

4) Execution was my problem with the last 3 seasons, not conception.

5) Numbers and Medium actually DO have interesting characters, and I can usually gloss over the case-of-the-week and enjoy the character bits. If somebody like Tim Minear joined Criminal Minds, it could be as good if not better than The Inside. The cast is there; it just needs the writer.

6) Completely agree.

7) Still not cable-ready, but from the BSG I've seen, Starbuck is my fave.

8) No comment.

9) Nobody on Grey's Anatomy appeals to me. NOBODY. I can't even watch to ogle Sandra Oh, and for me, that's almost unbelievable.

10) Very, very happy that Joss did not bring Tara back. Would have made "Amends" seem like Bleak House by comparison. I do wish Amber could have played the First in CWDP, and that Joss had spared us Kennedy...

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

No, you REALLY aren't the only one on my flist that liked SG1. Quite a few people adore it, they've just all move to Supernatural squeeing at the moment, so you can't tell.
That's why I rarely mention how much I despise the show and find it utterably unwatchable and think it is the reason sci-fi isn't taken seriously by anyone. LOL!

[cjlasky.livejournal.com]

RE: Supernatural squee-ing [Nods]

But about Stargate, Scrollgirl said it better than I did: "The Stargate franchise knows it's a franchise, and not Great Art. In some of their storylines, they aim for epic and much of the time they really do hit it... But they don't take themselves too seriously. They're FUNNY and they mock and they do their best to entertain us."

Yes, the Goa'uld are cheesy, and the Ori even moreso. Samantha Carter has been Mary Sue'd to a ridiculous extent. Richard Dean Anderson phoned in Season 8. I don't think the "Fargate" experiment (bringing in Browder and Black for S9 and 10) really worked. But this show was a top-notch adventure series for its first seven years, and I'm sorry to see it go.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

You silly man, you are arguing with my unpopular fan opinions. LOL!!!

Yeah, yeah, I know why people like Stargate, but I find the show unwatchable in much the same way you find Lost and Grey's unwatchable. Not a huge Dr. Who fan either by the way, for much the same reasons. Episodic Sci-Fi tends to bore me. It's a thing.

The only episodes of Star-Gate I was able to watch were the ones with Browder and Black in them.
But that's because I like Browder and Black, but even they weren't enough to make the show palatable to my taste.

[cjlasky.livejournal.com]

You silly man, you are arguing with my unpopular fan opinions.

Oh, ALWAYS! Because I like how you write and how you think, and I always want to see how you back up those opinions!

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

LMAO!

Thanks. Even my snarky wit that does not come across well on these posts? ;-)

Yeah, but sometimes they are just gut responses - along the lines of what Clint Eastwood once stated, there are time you just like what you like, don't what you don't. (grin).

On the Buffy stuff, which may be just gut - I honestly think I've watched so much tv now that execution isn't something that concerns me that much. Actually, I lie. It does concern me, just depends on the situation. In some cases - Twin Peaks for example - if you allow the story to get too muddled, you just confuse the audience. Twin Peaks in it's second season got a bit muddled. Veronica Mars is another example - I'll be suprised if this show makes it five seasons, because it is poorly executed. I'm not sure Thomas knows where he wants to take all these characters and feel as if he may be catering a tad too much to what he thinks flies with the audience and network. The Logan/VM romance appears to be evidence of it. Whedon stuck by the adage, which pissed off fans, don't give the audience what they want, give them what they need. (Course Whedon's a long-time serial fan - comics and soap operas, and knows the pitfalls of catering to your audience. )

My expectations for the final seasons weren't as high as most fans were. I knew what the writer was trying for, he more or less accomplished it with the resources he had. The first three seasons weren't that hard to execute well. Pretty basic in concept - high school is hell. Boyfriend turns evil. Anti-authority. I've seen it done before elsewhere. And Whedon in some ways worked off of themes he'd seen from other cult teen shows at the time including My So-Called Life, Popular, Freaks and Geeks, Square Pegs, The Wonder Years, Happy Days, etc. He also was playing with the whole slasher/gothic genre and subverting it. Every thing he does in the first three seasons if you really think hard about it - isn't really that innovative or that hard to pull off.

The last four on the other hand - he played big time. Pushed the envelope. Conversations with Dead People plays with the form in so many interesting ways - bracketing the show with a song written by the writer of it. Includes comedy, horror, silent moments. The Body. OMWF. Restless. Hush. Beneath You - that scene in the church. Him - making fun of 70's TV. The list goes on. Over and over in the commentaries the writers and directors mention how they'd never have been able to pull that off or do that one thing in S2 or 3. Are the first three seasons better executed? Yeah. But I have no interest in rewatching them. Or analyzing them.
It would be for me no different than watching someone pour clay into a ceramic mold and painting it aftewards as opposed to watching someone work hard to bend clay on the wheel and see where it goes. I'm odd, I know this. Was talking to my pottery teacher this past weekend, she was raving about one artists work that I'd seen - great bowls, perfectly executed, but I found them sort of boring, predictable.
No interest in looking at them again. Utiltarian. But my teacher's work, each bowl, each plate was distinct. Some flawed, but interesting beautiful because of the flaws. Does that make sense?

[cjlasky.livejournal.com]

Yes, even your snarky wit that doesn't come across well on the screen.

I'm not going to argue S1-3 vs. S4-7, because we've been on this merry-go-round too many times already.

I will say that I find certain sections of S2 and S3 boring because--even though Whedon and Greenwalt have the plot humming along beautifully--I know the surprise twist already, I've memorized the dialogue, and there's nothing more to milk from that particular heifer. But I never get tired of Restless or Dead Things or Normal Again because they're going for something much darker psychologically, and I find the sense of unease and disturbance unique in BUFFY, whose horror elements could be very "surface" in the early years.

On the other hand, I still find some of the "throwaway" eps of S1 and S2--like Inca Mummy Girl, IRYJ, Out of Mind/Out of Sight, or Go Fish-- entertaining, because the cast dynamic is so spectacular. Watching Geller, Hannigan, Brendon, Carpenter and Head interact is such a joy, because even though it's "the basics," when it's done well, it can thrill me like nobody's business. TV is littered with the corpses of shows that have tried to duplicate the Scooby dynamic and Whedon's style. Joss took the old cliches and gave them a new spin, mined every possible emotion from the material, which is really all you can ask from a storyteller.

And there are episodes in S6 and S7 I find absolutely painful, because nobody seems interested in the characters or the story. Who ARE these people? Is this really Willow or Giles? God, why is Xander even in this series anymore?
Sometimes the darker material seemed to enervate rather than energize the BUFFY staff, and you wondered why they even bothered. Or if they did.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Agrueing 1-3 and 4-5 does get redundant after awhile, as my pal Alice has pointed out, people aren't going to change their minds.

This will probably shock you, but I like the character dynamic better in the latter seasons, maybe because it feels more real to me, speaks to my experience of relationships after, during high school.
Willow and Buffy - their relationship is less cute and more painful, more uncertain. Giles is not the all-knowing resource, if he ever really was, which when we think back is doubtful. Xander is wondering why he's still hanging around these people, since his life is going in another direction.

Are there episodes I can't watch in the later seasons, oh yeah. But there are in the earlier ones too. Just as many. For some odd reason they always seem to come in the middle of the season and just before the finale (with the possible exception of S6 which was amazing from Normal Again straight through Grave for *me*, and I think S4 (can't remember when Where The Wild Things fell - it had to be before the Faith arc and Superstar, and I'm pretty sure the Tara/OZ/Willow was after Superstar and right before Yoko Factor) all the others had cheesy episodes in there that made me cringe.). This seems to be true of all tv shows. Almost as if the writer's have gotten tired or something. Which makes sense, you've spent six months hammering out an episode a week in the writers room. Now it's almost Xmas, and dang it you are tired and just want to go home and take a snoozer. But you have to grind out three more before. Don't know that's my hunch.

[frenchani.livejournal.com]

#7 is the only point from your list with which I could disagree. I don't dislike Lee, but I never cared much about him. And Helo/Sharon is the only pairing I'm interested in.