(no subject)

[shadowkat]

I seldom do this.

But, after reading liz_marks and scrollgirl's posts - scrollgirl even posted a link on a news article regarding what happened - I wrote my own somewhat heated response to Six Apart. Not the best in the world. But I decided this is something I have to take a stand on, even if I rarely if ever read the stuff they are talking about and do not know any of the journals that were deleted.

What happened? (in case, like me, you were blissfully unaware of this) Apparently Six Apart deleted approximately 500 lj journals and lj communities based on a complaint by an a parental focus group called Warriors of Innocence. They deleted any journal that appeared to have incest, child pornography, discussions related to it, pornographic fanfic, discussions about incest/molestation/child abuse, or rape. They did not limit it to the ones that were obviously over the line. Nor did they warn the users, inform them to stop or remove content (cease and desist letters) or they would be deleted. They just willy nilly deleted. Unless I misunderstood something. But it appears that Six Apart just deleted without telling anyone first or even giving the people a chance to remove the content.

So here's what I wrote:

I've just read a very disturbing piece of news online today. Did you really delete 500 personal journals and writing communities without warning or informing the writers and hosts of those communities?

Even a lawyer wouldn't do that. Usually a lawyer sends a cease and desist letter first warning the writer to remove questionable content or lock it as dictated by the rules. Same is true of most discussion boards I have been on, where the moderator informs the correspondents that their posts will be removed or have been removed for these reasons.

In my own journal - I warn people in my biographical section that I will delete posts without notice, even if they have responses.

That is the polite thing to do. The civilized thing to do. The PROFESSIONAL thing to do.

Also, why couldn't you have found a reasonable alternative? Why cater to one faction? Who from all reports is clearly in the minority? Aren't you a reputable business?

There are ways to prevent underage children from reading inappropriate content, without censorship. There is a difference between pedophillia or solicitation and writing fiction - or do you think Nabokov was a pedophile?

I think at the very least you owe the people whose journals that you deleted without warning and potentially without cause an apology. If they were paid journals - you owe them full reimbursement. That again is what a reputable and professional organization run by adults not children would do.

I understand Six Apart is a business and may not want certain content on its live journal site, but the site was not always a business making venture and Six Apart only recently acquired it a few years ago.

It's one thing to delete things in your own journal - I do that all the time. But it is quite another to agree to host someone's journal on your site, then without warning delete it because their content offends you. I'm sorry, if you are going to do that you can at least let the person know first - so they can leave and at least save their content elsewhere.

Comments

[scrollgirl.livejournal.com]

Your summary is right on the money. Thanks for writing it. Come join fandom_counts? Created at 4pm today. Now boasting 13,480 members.

Also, raw data (http://www.livejournal.com/stats/stats.txt) over at LJ stats (http://www.livejournal.com/stats.bml) tells me that this morning there were 13,034,151 users. Now there are 13,026,759.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Thank you. And you are very welcome.

Oh - I already did. I found your post on it and joined immediately after writing the post.

This thing really bugs me and if I knew a way of grabbing all my journal content and throwing it on my blog at blogger which I set up but aren't using, I would. Or on greatest journal. But going to adopt a wait and see attitude for now.

And locking all content that anyone might go nutty over - well already been doing that. I'm somewhat paranoid to begin with - especially with Bush as prez.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Actually maybe leaving isn't the best idea. I just read this response (http://news.livejournal.com/98960.html?style=mine&thread=46452624#t46452624) - it basically states what you should do is write more stuff, make sockpuppets, duplicates, etc. Take over. All you do by leaving is give them what they want.

Oh and make your accounts basic. Don't give them any money. I might go back to basic. Get rid of ad revenue.

[scrollgirl.livejournal.com]

I definitely agree to writing more, and not shying away from subjects SixAapart deems "objectionable". But I actually deleted my duplicates because advertisers don't like to advertise in places that are losing customers. That said, I don't know if a boycott would actually work. Fandom at large certainly isn't walking away. Yet.

Definitely make your account basic, if you don't care about whatever extra features the Plus account gives you. I would do it too, only my account is permanent. More's the pity. If I still had a Paid account, I could not renew in protest.

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

I just heard about this at Whedonesque and it really freaked me out... Partly because I had just (a few days ago) paid for another year of my paid account here at lj, and I don't feel good about paying money to an organization which censors in this kind of brutal book burning fashion. It is very disturbing.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

The first time I read about it - in passing, about two or three days ago, I thought it was a scam or joke - not real. But it has been verified now.
And it disturbs me a great deal and makes me very happy I've never given these people money. Account has always been free, thank god.

But it is really disturbing me. Although not altogether surprising when I think about it. People have been trying to police and control internet content in some way since well...the internet began. And right now blogs are coming under the spotlight due to a lot of journal articles on them.

Honestly if more people shared my philosophy of *live and let live* the world would be a much easier place to live in. These people are beginning to make me want to hum that old Paul McCartney tune : Live and Let Dieeee!

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

There are posts on the LJ comm dark_christians reporting that this group is not just a general moral purity organisation but is linked to some truly extreme anti-immigrant/militia/theocratic organisations.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Sigh. Warriors of Innocence not only sounds frightening, but they are also annoying. Everyone who followed the link got mallware and spyware. So I refrained.

Don't suppose we can find a friendly hacker who can hack into the Warriors for Innocence website and infect them with an internet virus that would destroy their content and corrupt their computers, putting them out of action? Nah...probably wouldn't help. But it is tempting.

I have 0 tolerance for facist organizations.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Oj, I adore your icon! May swipe. ;-)

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

I like that icon too (take it if you like), it expresses how ineffectual my anger ends up being. The thing that shocks me the most is the stealth attack manner in which it was done. There was no warning that the material should be removed, and no general announcement to lj members that this could be a problem. What else will they decide we can't do? I have icons made from copyright protected/trademarked images, and I have posted my disgust with the current President, there are probably a lot things on my lj that some censoring self-righteous/religious group could object to.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

The thing of it is - many of these users paid for their journals. It's one thing if you haven't paid, but if you have - you and lj have an agreement. In which case the deleted journal users could sue Six Apart for full reimbursement of funds and loss of content. Unless Six Apart can prove that it is *clearly* stated that they have the right to delete without notice and a *reasonable* user would have been aware of it. I've been on LJ for close to six years now and to my knowledge I've never seen that clearly stated anywhere. All I've seen is:"If you delete your journal or it is accidentally deleted, rest assurred you have within 30 days to put it back without any loss."

They cannot delete you without JUST cause - if you have PAID. People like me, take the risk. But payment means that there's an exchange of services going on. If they delete your journal without reimbursement or notice of termination - they are in material breach.

No, what they did was poor business practice. MySpace and Blogger to my knowledge have never done that.

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

Well apparently lj has belated agreed with you, and they will be restoring a number of communities that had been removed:
http://news.livejournal.com/99159.html
it is no longer possible to comment at that apology, but I think a lot of people have expressed the same regret that I was feeling: that they have paid for a service which can evidently be canceled at whim.

I've been happy at lj, I don't want to start posting a lot of stuff at MySpace (with the weird comments and members who are trying to sell things). I would rather keep my lj going, but I do feel that they have lost a lot of my trust.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I just got around to reading it and the one posted before it. (5000 comments, man.) I seriously doubt they read mine. But their apology and the way it is worded, feels like they did or that they spoke with an attorney who more or less smacked them upside the head and informed them that they could get sued. (The second post even uses legal language "a reasonable person" - LOL!)

No, anyone with an ounce of common business sense and/or a law degree would have told Six Apart that they screwed up royally. You do not delete journals willy nilly on a site in which they pay to be hosted and or permit advertisements. MySpace which has struggled with similar issues is smart enough to know that, as is Blogger. You state it clearly. And if someone breaks it. You send a cease and desist letter. Give them a period of time to remedy. If they do not. You take the threatened action and make sure you have proof that they received your warning. Otherwise they could sue you for breach of contract if they have paid.

I mean it - if you have paid for lj to host your journal and for their services and they delete your content without warning and/or clear just cause - you can sue for full reimbursement, loss of property and possibly compensatory damages under breach of contract. People have sued companies for less.

What they did was royally stupid. And from the two apologies I saw, I think they figured that out. Doubt we'll see them do it again any time soon.