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shadowkatAt some point, I should probably do a review of the entire series, but no time tonight. Just finished watching Episode 10 Fire and Blood - the season #1 finale of Game of Thrones. Odd. For some reason I thought there were 11 episodes. 10 is an awfully short season even for HBO. Normally, US DVD packages require at least 13 - for pricing. Not that I'm complaining, it made the story tighter, less filler and throw-away scenes. Shorter seasons mean better and higher production value and tighter writing.
I have to admit, I've forgotten most of the books, had to ask co-worker how Game of Thrones the novel ended. Because I could not remember. And I remember even less of the second book Clash of Kings - except that it was long, I didn't enjoy it all that much, and I wanted to strangle Robb, Catelynn, Davos, Cersei, Sansa and Joffrey in no particular order by the end of it. Why, I couldn't tell you. Because I honestly don't remember. Read the bloody thing six years ago. I remember the third book better actually - but I read that one in November, and it's already fading fast. Bloody memory can only hold so much miscellaneous information. Do remember who gets killed and how. But I can't tell you that. Because spoilers! Will go so far as to state - that none of my favorite characters get killed. Well, at least not yet.
Okay, I lied. I scanned the last five chapters of the book - mostly because I was trying to figure out if the Jamie/Catelynn scene was in Game or not. It's not. I'm guessing it's from the beginning of Clash or just a part of another scene, which they've decided to break up a bit? If it's the scene I remember? They are breaking it up quite a bit, which is an interesting choice. We may end up getting segments of that scene throughout the entire second season. It's one scene in the book, but they may split it up into about five scenes. I can see them doing that, actually. They've done that a lot already. Tyrion's speech to Lysa is actually from either Clash or Storm and it's in reality to Joffrey and Cersei. Also, Robert and Ned's discussions which pop up intermittently, were actually just one long scene. And Tyrion's story about Tysha is combined into one scene as opposed to two different scenes, almost two books apart. Splitting up the Catelynn/Jamie scenes may actually work better dramatically speaking. Doesn't really matter, all they are doing is trying to build up certain characters a lot faster. There's relatively little of Jamie in Game or Clash of Kings, which becomes problematic latter and I think is a big flaw in the story. Martin does this a lot. Several major characters are taken off-stage, while you meander around with supporting characters for a bit, then you come back to the major character - only to learn everything that happened to them through a third party. It's similar to well reading Hamlet through the pov of Rosencratz and Guildenstern, or for that matter, Citizen Kane. Not a style that I'm particularly fond of. Mileage varies on this. The TV series so far, appears to be taking the opposite tact.
No time. Quickly.
*Dany - this was Dany's episode. And I loved how they did that final scene. She emerges unmarked from the flames, nude, clothed in dragons. The mother of Dragons. It's a scene that echoes Jon Snow's discovery of the big mother Direwolf and her cubs, and how he helps Rob birth them and splits them amongst his brothers and sisters, against Ned Stark's objections. Dany likewise births the Dragons against Ser Jorah's objections. Rather adore the parralel structure.
Also the witch scene with Dany is very similar to the book. But I liked it better here. The witch comes across as less looney and more sane. And what she tells Dany does not fall on death ears. Although it sort of looks like it here. How Dany kills her is ruthless - depicting that Dany is not necessarily kind and loving, but rather complex. As she comes into her power as a leader, she becomes more interesting as does her arc. (See? I told you the whole Conan the Barbarian/Drokari storyline doesn't last long. It's rather short actually. I'd forgotten about it, until I started watching Game.) Never quite understood why Dany fell in love with Drogo, didn't in the book either though.
And from what co-worker told me - the way she kills Drogo is the same in the book. Smothers him, because he's just a vacant shell, less than a zombie.
*Jon Snow - who decides to ride home and help Robb, regardless of whether anyone asked for his help. His brothers in the Night's Watch, spear-headed by the wonderful Samwell Tary, wisely stop him from making a fool of himself. And bring him home again. The old Bear states - which is the battle that needs to be fought? The one for vengeance and to sit on a throne that may not even exist if we don't stop what's coming, or the one north of the wall? Who scares you more? The boy king, or the wights, and dead walkers? Which battle needs you more? Which needs to be fought more?
Jon unlike his father, chooses the right battle and rides North. He's actually the only character outside of Dany and Ayra who does something smart in this episode. Old Bear is right - Ned Stark started a full-fledged war, when there were problems north of him that should have been attended to. But instead of listening to those who came down from the Wall to warn him (he beheaded one of them instead), he listened to Robert and went to Kings Landing and started a war that resulted in his death and thousands did. With honorable guys like this wondering about, who needs villains?
Seriously, it reminds me of that old saying : There's no-one scarier than a Just and Righteous Man who believes unwaveringly that he is Right. Question always.
I love how Ned Stark's stupidity ricochet's through the episode - with various characters vaguely commenting on it, and its results.
Jon goes off with the Old Bear to venture North of the Wall - to see what is coming. The Old Bear has decided not to wait meekly for Winter to actually come before he finds out. Wise move. And not so wise. Depending on your pov.
*Robb Stark - Robb reacts rather violently to his father's death. Can't say I blame him. And wants to kill everyone. Can't say I blame him - Dad goes to King's Landing and his whole family splinters. Catelynn stops him from heading off to kill Jamie - since they still have his sisters. (So, what, you'd kill Jamie, if they didn't? How's that make you any different than them? Actually makes you the same.) Then they have the same fight Ned had with Varys and Renly and Little Finger - over who should be king - Stannis, Renly or Ned. Ned didn't want to be King (he's not a complete idiot), so went with Stannis. No one appears to like Stannis, including Stannis' own brother - Renly, who thinks he should be King.
Robb'sminions bannermen decide to elect him King, much to book Catelynn's horror and television Catelynn's astonishment or glee (hard to tell). Robb (portrayed by a very charismatic Richard Madden who makes me like Robb a lot more than I did in the books), decides this is a swell idea and goes for it. Apparently no one likes Stannis very much here either. The Lesser of Two evils and all that. (Don't worry, you'll get to meet Stannis soon enough and can decide for yourselves...)
*Catelynn tells griefstricken Robb that after they free his sisters, they'll kill them all. Actually that is easier said than done Catelynn - you are assuming both sisters are in Kings Landing and easily found. But than Catelynn's been making a lot of assumptions like that of late. She decides to go off and yell at Jamie Lannister. (This is the weird scene that wasn't in Game of Thrones the book that they added which I was commenting on at the beginning of this review.)
What she hopes to accomplish here, I've no idea. I mean what do you expect him to tell you? He hates you and your family. He knows you aren't going to kill him or you would have done it already. And he's handled scarier people and scarier situations than you. Also, I don't get the feeling Jamie likes himself all that much. There's a bit of self-loathing underneath all that spit and polish. (I don't know if any of that comes across to someone who hasn't read the books...or even to people who have. Mileage varies.) Also, it's not like Jamie killed Ned or had anything to do with Ned's beheading. He didn't kill or even wound Ned when he had the chance, he kicked the guy who did - actually. Then got yelled at by his father for not killing Ned himself. But Catelynn's frustrated and has to yell at someone, plus it gives her a chance to ask Jamie if he hurt Bran? He confesses to it - which is surprising. He doesn't tell her why - although I'm not sure why she hasn't guessed it herself? I mean, come on, she finds a long blond hair in the tower, Ned gets killed for treason - because he says Joffrey isn't the rightful heir, and there's the whole thing about Jon Arryn? Also do you really think Jamie's going to say - oh I tried to kill your son because he saw me and my sister having sex in the belfry and if he told anyone, we'd be executed?
I'm not quite sure why they chose to do this scene, exactly. We aren't really told anything we don't already know about either character and it doesn't move the story forward at all. Also, it makes Catelynn look like an idiot. Jamie ...I can't really say it makes him look like anything other than a disgruntled and beaten up prisoner who wants to get a few licks in at an enemy who defeated and killed half his army. I guess you could say he's a jerk...but he doesn't lie and well, beaten up and disgruntled prisoner. Did she do that in Clash of Kings? I recall that she asked why he attempted to kill Bran the second time - which he denies doing, and doesn't believe her until she shows him her wounds. Maybe that's why they did this scene? To lead up to that second scene? The second scene is really important. But why now? I don't know - this felt like a throw-away scene to me - the only one I've seen for a bit. (Sigh, I'd look it up in Clash - but I loaned the book to co-worker last week).
*Tyrion - two of the best scenes were with Tyrion. Rather loved the scene with his father, where Tywin tells Tyrion that he's been treating him like a stunted fool and he's proven that he's not that. Well, you were only half wrong - says Tyrion. I'm admittedly new to the strategy game. Tywin states - you were right about Eddard Stark. With him alive, we had a chance. With him dead, we have none. There's no way they'll bargain now. It was stupid and now we have fighting all over the place and pure chaos. I'm sending you to Kings Landing, take control, rule, pull Cersei and Joffrey in line. Act as the King's Hand in my place. Why me? Asks Tyrion. Because, states Tywin, you are my son. But one thing I ask - don't bring that whore with you.
Tyrion tells this to Shae, who persuades Tyrion to turn against his father and take her with him. Big mistake. It's a great scene though and I rather like Shae in it.
*Master whatever his name is and the whore - this is interesting, he is telling the whore about kings. And stating more or less that they are all the same. The Iron Throne drives them all mad or weak. Aerys was a charmer, then melted into madness. Robert was more into playing than ruling. But Joffrey shows signs of strength, a bit reckless, but you never know.
It's an eerie speech. When we see what Joffrey is capable of.
*Sansa and Joffrey - Was hoping we wouldn't have to see this scene or not yet. Rather hate this scene. I thought it was in the second book, but no, it's in Game. Joffrey decides after cutting out a man's tongue, to show Sansa her' Dad and Septa's heads up close and personal and taunt her with the betrothal. Yes, Joffrey is a sadistic creep with no redeeming qualities. The one purely one-dimensional mwwahhahhah evil character in the story. The good news - is we don't see that much of him. The bad news? He sticks around for a bit longer than we'd like. Most of the time we just see him torture Sansa.
Poor Sansa. Anyone else rooting for Sansa to push Joffrey off that castle embankment? Stupid Sandor stopped her. Although it was probably for the best - is she'd succeeded, she'd be dead. If she hadn't succeeded, she'd wish she were dead. Sandor is an interesting character. And that scene was more about Sandor and Sansa, than Joffrey.
*Ayra and Yoren Yoren sort of saves Ayra, disguises her as a boy, and wisely puts her on the cart heading north - to Jon Snow. Wise move. Jon's actually the safest sibling to be going towards at the moment, even if it may not appear that way. Ayra wisely goes along with it.
She also ironically ends up with Gendry, Robert Barratheon's bastard son, although he doesn't know it. Gendry acts as her protector, although I'm not so sure she needs protecting. I love Ayra.
Ayra and Tyrion are my two favorite characters or the one's I care the most about.
*Little Finger and Varys - I actually prefer Varys here to Little Finger - Varys is more interesting and more mysterious. Not quite sure what Varys agenda is. Little-Finger just wants to rule and hurt everyone who ever hurt him. He's probably the most dangerous person at court.
Both of them are, actually. But of the two - only Little Finger reveals his hand to Varys, Varys - the better actor, conceals most of his. Both are good actors, but Varys isn't as tied to his emotions and baggage as Little Finger.
*Bran and Rickon - ah, Rickon shows up. He disappears from the books as well. Then pops up when you forget about him. They look a like, which makes sense. And both visit the site of their father's tomb - where they dreamed they saw their father...as if their father visited them both in their dreams.
Rather good episode. Loved it. And definitely more entertaining than the books. Also there's several really good scenes in it - the Jon Snow/Old Bear and Jon Snow/Samwell scenes, Dany and the dragons, and Dany/Witch scenes...where the witch discusses being raped and enslaved and watching her temple burn and Dany has done her little favors. Life, the old witch states, can be meaningless without that which you love. Dany calls the old witches bluff - and shows her just how sacred life can be. The Jon Snow arc and the Dany arc continue to echo each other throughout the tv series. They appear to be the heroes of the piece - as they slowly arc towards each other in a song of ice and fire. I see it more here than in the books actually.
Off to bed.
I have to admit, I've forgotten most of the books, had to ask co-worker how Game of Thrones the novel ended. Because I could not remember. And I remember even less of the second book Clash of Kings - except that it was long, I didn't enjoy it all that much, and I wanted to strangle Robb, Catelynn, Davos, Cersei, Sansa and Joffrey in no particular order by the end of it. Why, I couldn't tell you. Because I honestly don't remember. Read the bloody thing six years ago. I remember the third book better actually - but I read that one in November, and it's already fading fast. Bloody memory can only hold so much miscellaneous information. Do remember who gets killed and how. But I can't tell you that. Because spoilers! Will go so far as to state - that none of my favorite characters get killed. Well, at least not yet.
Okay, I lied. I scanned the last five chapters of the book - mostly because I was trying to figure out if the Jamie/Catelynn scene was in Game or not. It's not. I'm guessing it's from the beginning of Clash or just a part of another scene, which they've decided to break up a bit? If it's the scene I remember? They are breaking it up quite a bit, which is an interesting choice. We may end up getting segments of that scene throughout the entire second season. It's one scene in the book, but they may split it up into about five scenes. I can see them doing that, actually. They've done that a lot already. Tyrion's speech to Lysa is actually from either Clash or Storm and it's in reality to Joffrey and Cersei. Also, Robert and Ned's discussions which pop up intermittently, were actually just one long scene. And Tyrion's story about Tysha is combined into one scene as opposed to two different scenes, almost two books apart. Splitting up the Catelynn/Jamie scenes may actually work better dramatically speaking. Doesn't really matter, all they are doing is trying to build up certain characters a lot faster. There's relatively little of Jamie in Game or Clash of Kings, which becomes problematic latter and I think is a big flaw in the story. Martin does this a lot. Several major characters are taken off-stage, while you meander around with supporting characters for a bit, then you come back to the major character - only to learn everything that happened to them through a third party. It's similar to well reading Hamlet through the pov of Rosencratz and Guildenstern, or for that matter, Citizen Kane. Not a style that I'm particularly fond of. Mileage varies on this. The TV series so far, appears to be taking the opposite tact.
No time. Quickly.
*Dany - this was Dany's episode. And I loved how they did that final scene. She emerges unmarked from the flames, nude, clothed in dragons. The mother of Dragons. It's a scene that echoes Jon Snow's discovery of the big mother Direwolf and her cubs, and how he helps Rob birth them and splits them amongst his brothers and sisters, against Ned Stark's objections. Dany likewise births the Dragons against Ser Jorah's objections. Rather adore the parralel structure.
Also the witch scene with Dany is very similar to the book. But I liked it better here. The witch comes across as less looney and more sane. And what she tells Dany does not fall on death ears. Although it sort of looks like it here. How Dany kills her is ruthless - depicting that Dany is not necessarily kind and loving, but rather complex. As she comes into her power as a leader, she becomes more interesting as does her arc. (See? I told you the whole Conan the Barbarian/Drokari storyline doesn't last long. It's rather short actually. I'd forgotten about it, until I started watching Game.) Never quite understood why Dany fell in love with Drogo, didn't in the book either though.
And from what co-worker told me - the way she kills Drogo is the same in the book. Smothers him, because he's just a vacant shell, less than a zombie.
*Jon Snow - who decides to ride home and help Robb, regardless of whether anyone asked for his help. His brothers in the Night's Watch, spear-headed by the wonderful Samwell Tary, wisely stop him from making a fool of himself. And bring him home again. The old Bear states - which is the battle that needs to be fought? The one for vengeance and to sit on a throne that may not even exist if we don't stop what's coming, or the one north of the wall? Who scares you more? The boy king, or the wights, and dead walkers? Which battle needs you more? Which needs to be fought more?
Jon unlike his father, chooses the right battle and rides North. He's actually the only character outside of Dany and Ayra who does something smart in this episode. Old Bear is right - Ned Stark started a full-fledged war, when there were problems north of him that should have been attended to. But instead of listening to those who came down from the Wall to warn him (he beheaded one of them instead), he listened to Robert and went to Kings Landing and started a war that resulted in his death and thousands did. With honorable guys like this wondering about, who needs villains?
Seriously, it reminds me of that old saying : There's no-one scarier than a Just and Righteous Man who believes unwaveringly that he is Right. Question always.
I love how Ned Stark's stupidity ricochet's through the episode - with various characters vaguely commenting on it, and its results.
Jon goes off with the Old Bear to venture North of the Wall - to see what is coming. The Old Bear has decided not to wait meekly for Winter to actually come before he finds out. Wise move. And not so wise. Depending on your pov.
*Robb Stark - Robb reacts rather violently to his father's death. Can't say I blame him. And wants to kill everyone. Can't say I blame him - Dad goes to King's Landing and his whole family splinters. Catelynn stops him from heading off to kill Jamie - since they still have his sisters. (So, what, you'd kill Jamie, if they didn't? How's that make you any different than them? Actually makes you the same.) Then they have the same fight Ned had with Varys and Renly and Little Finger - over who should be king - Stannis, Renly or Ned. Ned didn't want to be King (he's not a complete idiot), so went with Stannis. No one appears to like Stannis, including Stannis' own brother - Renly, who thinks he should be King.
Robb's
*Catelynn tells griefstricken Robb that after they free his sisters, they'll kill them all. Actually that is easier said than done Catelynn - you are assuming both sisters are in Kings Landing and easily found. But than Catelynn's been making a lot of assumptions like that of late. She decides to go off and yell at Jamie Lannister. (This is the weird scene that wasn't in Game of Thrones the book that they added which I was commenting on at the beginning of this review.)
What she hopes to accomplish here, I've no idea. I mean what do you expect him to tell you? He hates you and your family. He knows you aren't going to kill him or you would have done it already. And he's handled scarier people and scarier situations than you. Also, I don't get the feeling Jamie likes himself all that much. There's a bit of self-loathing underneath all that spit and polish. (I don't know if any of that comes across to someone who hasn't read the books...or even to people who have. Mileage varies.) Also, it's not like Jamie killed Ned or had anything to do with Ned's beheading. He didn't kill or even wound Ned when he had the chance, he kicked the guy who did - actually. Then got yelled at by his father for not killing Ned himself. But Catelynn's frustrated and has to yell at someone, plus it gives her a chance to ask Jamie if he hurt Bran? He confesses to it - which is surprising. He doesn't tell her why - although I'm not sure why she hasn't guessed it herself? I mean, come on, she finds a long blond hair in the tower, Ned gets killed for treason - because he says Joffrey isn't the rightful heir, and there's the whole thing about Jon Arryn? Also do you really think Jamie's going to say - oh I tried to kill your son because he saw me and my sister having sex in the belfry and if he told anyone, we'd be executed?
I'm not quite sure why they chose to do this scene, exactly. We aren't really told anything we don't already know about either character and it doesn't move the story forward at all. Also, it makes Catelynn look like an idiot. Jamie ...I can't really say it makes him look like anything other than a disgruntled and beaten up prisoner who wants to get a few licks in at an enemy who defeated and killed half his army. I guess you could say he's a jerk...but he doesn't lie and well, beaten up and disgruntled prisoner. Did she do that in Clash of Kings? I recall that she asked why he attempted to kill Bran the second time - which he denies doing, and doesn't believe her until she shows him her wounds. Maybe that's why they did this scene? To lead up to that second scene? The second scene is really important. But why now? I don't know - this felt like a throw-away scene to me - the only one I've seen for a bit. (Sigh, I'd look it up in Clash - but I loaned the book to co-worker last week).
*Tyrion - two of the best scenes were with Tyrion. Rather loved the scene with his father, where Tywin tells Tyrion that he's been treating him like a stunted fool and he's proven that he's not that. Well, you were only half wrong - says Tyrion. I'm admittedly new to the strategy game. Tywin states - you were right about Eddard Stark. With him alive, we had a chance. With him dead, we have none. There's no way they'll bargain now. It was stupid and now we have fighting all over the place and pure chaos. I'm sending you to Kings Landing, take control, rule, pull Cersei and Joffrey in line. Act as the King's Hand in my place. Why me? Asks Tyrion. Because, states Tywin, you are my son. But one thing I ask - don't bring that whore with you.
Tyrion tells this to Shae, who persuades Tyrion to turn against his father and take her with him. Big mistake. It's a great scene though and I rather like Shae in it.
*Master whatever his name is and the whore - this is interesting, he is telling the whore about kings. And stating more or less that they are all the same. The Iron Throne drives them all mad or weak. Aerys was a charmer, then melted into madness. Robert was more into playing than ruling. But Joffrey shows signs of strength, a bit reckless, but you never know.
It's an eerie speech. When we see what Joffrey is capable of.
*Sansa and Joffrey - Was hoping we wouldn't have to see this scene or not yet. Rather hate this scene. I thought it was in the second book, but no, it's in Game. Joffrey decides after cutting out a man's tongue, to show Sansa her' Dad and Septa's heads up close and personal and taunt her with the betrothal. Yes, Joffrey is a sadistic creep with no redeeming qualities. The one purely one-dimensional mwwahhahhah evil character in the story. The good news - is we don't see that much of him. The bad news? He sticks around for a bit longer than we'd like. Most of the time we just see him torture Sansa.
Poor Sansa. Anyone else rooting for Sansa to push Joffrey off that castle embankment? Stupid Sandor stopped her. Although it was probably for the best - is she'd succeeded, she'd be dead. If she hadn't succeeded, she'd wish she were dead. Sandor is an interesting character. And that scene was more about Sandor and Sansa, than Joffrey.
*Ayra and Yoren Yoren sort of saves Ayra, disguises her as a boy, and wisely puts her on the cart heading north - to Jon Snow. Wise move. Jon's actually the safest sibling to be going towards at the moment, even if it may not appear that way. Ayra wisely goes along with it.
She also ironically ends up with Gendry, Robert Barratheon's bastard son, although he doesn't know it. Gendry acts as her protector, although I'm not so sure she needs protecting. I love Ayra.
Ayra and Tyrion are my two favorite characters or the one's I care the most about.
*Little Finger and Varys - I actually prefer Varys here to Little Finger - Varys is more interesting and more mysterious. Not quite sure what Varys agenda is. Little-Finger just wants to rule and hurt everyone who ever hurt him. He's probably the most dangerous person at court.
Both of them are, actually. But of the two - only Little Finger reveals his hand to Varys, Varys - the better actor, conceals most of his. Both are good actors, but Varys isn't as tied to his emotions and baggage as Little Finger.
*Bran and Rickon - ah, Rickon shows up. He disappears from the books as well. Then pops up when you forget about him. They look a like, which makes sense. And both visit the site of their father's tomb - where they dreamed they saw their father...as if their father visited them both in their dreams.
Rather good episode. Loved it. And definitely more entertaining than the books. Also there's several really good scenes in it - the Jon Snow/Old Bear and Jon Snow/Samwell scenes, Dany and the dragons, and Dany/Witch scenes...where the witch discusses being raped and enslaved and watching her temple burn and Dany has done her little favors. Life, the old witch states, can be meaningless without that which you love. Dany calls the old witches bluff - and shows her just how sacred life can be. The Jon Snow arc and the Dany arc continue to echo each other throughout the tv series. They appear to be the heroes of the piece - as they slowly arc towards each other in a song of ice and fire. I see it more here than in the books actually.
Off to bed.
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Date: 2011-06-21 03:36 am (UTC)That. Jaime has only one scene in the entirety of CoK and it's near the end, so they took a bit of it and put it in this episode.
I tended to think that what they used here was what they felt they needed to tie up a loose thread and left the rest for Jaime's arc next year. Martin has a way of not resolving some issues until you're well beyond the point of the answer actually mattering (for example: Who sent the assassin for Bran). I think the show may have felt that they had to address the bit that started the season -- Bran's fall. They gave Catelyn that much but left out the stuff that matters to Jaime's arc.
I can't imagine that they'll actually leave it out because they basically have to come back to that scene in the dungeon because that's what sets Jaime and Brienne off on their journey, so I think we'll get the rest of that scene... eventually.
yrion's speech to Lysa is actually from either Clash or Storm
Oh! You asked me to look for that!
Tyrion 'confesses' in Storm, but it's not the same confession. There's a lot of snark in Tyrion's confession to Lysa. The Storm confession is just sad and angry and tragic (though for the life of me, I can't remember what it was he said. Just that you asked me to look for it and when I 'found' it, I noticed that it was different in tone. I don't think he dared be snarky about it in Storm. It's more just bitter.
*Master whatever his name is and the whore - this is interesting, he is telling the whore about kings. And stating more or less that they are all the same. The Iron Throne drives them all mad or weak. Aerys was a charmer, then melted into madness. Robert was more into playing than ruling. But Joffrey shows signs of strength, a bit reckless, but you never know.
I think Pycelle played that scene for Littlefinger. Ros simply has to be talking to Littlefinger, so Pycelle was making himself look both ineffectual (not a threat) and loyal to King Joffrey, thus giving Littlefinger nothing to use against him.
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Date: 2011-06-21 04:31 pm (UTC)I think you're right - they were trying to give the audience the emotional catharthis that Martin denies the reader - partly because Martin's going for heightened reality. (In the Book - Catelynn can't do it, they are literally riding to Riverun, and she's spending all her time with her family - gathering support for Robb. Jamie's sort of knocked to one side. As is Bran, who she appears to forget due to everything else.) Oddly, I think the way Martin handles it makes more sense. Odd, because at the time I read the book - I wanted the opposite. But seeing it played out? It worked better in the books.
I can't imagine that they'll actually leave it out because they basically have to come back to that scene in the dungeon
Agreed. Otherwise what happens in Storm won't make any sense. They left out everything about the Karstarks - which is going to be problematic, since what happened to the Karstark's is why a lot of things happen in Book 2 and Book 3..It's also why Jamie still being alive is an issue. Karstark really wants Jamie dead for killing his two sons, and Robb is barely keeping Karstark in line by promising to do it later. What happens to Jamie - has a lot to do with the Karstark plot thread. It's why Robb can't free Jamie to free his sisters, he'll lose Karstark.
Tyrion 'confesses' in Storm, but it's not the same confession. There's a lot of snark in Tyrion's confession to Lysa. The Storm confession is just sad and angry and tragic (though for the life of me, I can't remember what it was he said. Just that you asked me to look for it and when I 'found' it, I noticed that it was different in tone.
Thanks. I remember it being the same words but the tone being different, more accusatory, sad and angry - in part because it is directed at his own family. While the confession to Lysa is directed at someone he doesn't care a whit about and doesn't know him. But his family - is a whole other thing.
I think Pycelle played that scene for Littlefinger. Ros simply has to be talking to Littlefinger, so Pycelle was making himself look both ineffectual (not a threat) and loyal to King Joffrey, thus giving Littlefinger nothing to use against him.
Oh definitely. The only people who can't see through Little Finger appear to be those in power, who don't see him as a threat. Ned Stark, Catelynn, Cersei, Joffrey,
etc. But Varys and Pycelle - know exactly what Littlefinger is up to and who his spies are. Can't wait for Tyrion to come into that nest of vipers. See if he fares much better than Ned Stark did.