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shadowkatWas told by my father the other night to give McCain's choice for VP the benefit of the doubt. She does, after all, have the most executive experience of the four. The other three are Sentators. She's Governor of Alaska, which granted isn't exactly the most populous state in the US, let alone the largest. When I stated this - my father pointed out that it didn't matter - she has managed a huge staff of people, George Bush who was Governor of Texas - didn't because that was the Lieut. Governor's job. He found her attractive, capable, and an unknown quantity. He also cautioned me against making broad and emotional generalizations, which I kept doing during the phone call. Stating he'd lived a lot longer than I have and seen more Presidents, and Eisenhower, who happened to be a Republican, wasn't that bad. (My father's still voting for Obama by the way, even if it's in South Carolina has the overall effect throwing a pebble in the ocean.)
Regarding Sarah Palin - here's an interesting post I found via a link by a resident of Palin's state, Alaska: http://artaxastra.livejournal.com/251953.html
However, I think the commentator has a relatively uninformed and narror view of the abortion debate, but then most people do - I've discovered - just like they do on the death penalty, but I'm not going there.
Sometimes I think I know too much about this topic, having researched the history for a debate in high school - in which my father asked me to fight for the right to life, and for a rather interesting paper on the decisions and methodology of two conservative Supreme Court Judges - Sandra Day O'Connor and William Rhenquist in law school. Also, dealt with it from multiple perspectives in college. As a result, I find statements like -oh, you are pro-life, have had a Down's Syndrom kid, and walked the walk, talked the talk - so we have great respect for your views because you know this topic! - to be, with all respect to the sentiment expressed, relatively niave or possibly ignorant on the issue - an emotional/sentimental response as opposed to an educated and informed one.
I lived next door to a woman who had a son with Downs Syndrom and had the child in her 40s. I knew him. And have known many men and women with the syndrom. Most of the women I've known who had abortions did not have them because of Down's Syndrom or the fear of it, in fact I've never met a woman who had an abortion because her child might have Down's Syndrom, while I've known at least ten women who have had to have abortions, and they were traumatic experiences.
I've never had one and never would and have been in a situation in which a close friend was contemplating an abortion - everyone around her was telling her to have it because that's what they would do, and I was the only one cautioning her to think twice and not do it. She had one. Was traumatized. But it was the right choice for "her" at the end. Her choice had nothing to do with Down's Syndrom - it had to do with being too young and too scared to have child. She was afraid of trapping the guy she was in love with and believed was interested in someone else. It was not until well after the abortion that she discovered she was wrong. Her choice was further complicated by the fact that she had been the reason her parents got married. She didn't want to replay their choices. And she made this choice well before the first trimester, during a great deal of stress. I honestly don't know what I would have done if I had been her, and do not feel qualified to judge her for her decision or for that matter to have made it for her. I do not believe as some do that it is a scientific fact that life begins at conception. Nor do I believe that forcing people to have children works - that hurts the child. My friend told me that she did not want to have a child under the conditions her parents had had her. She couldn't do that to a child.
I've also known a woman who desperately wanted her child, but was told that she had to abort it, that the child had severe birth defects. The woman had little money, the father wanted nothing to do with a child or her, her parents had no money, and if she had the child - the child would require a lifetime worth of expensive medical care, physical therapy, and day to day care. This woman was partially death and barely able to care for herself. She'd also been told that it would damage her physically and possibly kill her. Having the abortion was a painful decision. In short, when it comes to having children - you cannot compare people or their choices. From a purely legal, legislative side? When abortion was illegal in the US, more women and children died. Making abortion illegal did not prevent it. Women found other means. Rich women or women with funds- paid doctors to do it in private. Poor women and middle-class women - did it with wires, drugs, and back-street doctors. I've read the horror stories.
Here's some links:
Abortion History: A Timeline Back to Ancient Times:
http://www.hopeclinic.com/AbortionHistory.htm
Roe vs. Wade: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade
Before Roe vs. Wade:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2510/before-em-roe-em-v-em-wade-em-did-10-000-women-a-year-die-from-illegal-abortions
Regarding Sarah Palin qualifications for VP of the USA and views - below are several links from conservative, moderate, and liberal sources regarding the Governor's views on issues ranging from human rights to energy.
1. Biography - turns out she is educated, has a BA in communications and journalism from the University of Idaho and has lived most of her life in Alaska. Also a former beauty queen. Here's the site: http://gov.state.ak.us/bio.html.
One of her kids' names is Willow. Wonder if she was a Buffy fan? Probably not.
She has one son with Down's Syndrom - hence the anti-abortion stance. (By the way, I've met women with children with Down's Syndrom who are not anti-abortion and pro-choice. So it's not automatic).
She has another son, not the same one, going to the Iraq War this year. She's against the draft and for expanding on the Reserves. Also pro-Iraq (proof that having a kid in Iraq does not automatically make you anti-war, nor is having served in Iraq make you anti-Iraq war - know quite a few who have done both and are pro-Iraq.)
Was on the city council, then was Mayor of Wassilia, Alaska and became Governor two years ago. Hunts and fishes with her husband. And is a proud member of the NRA for the last twenty years. Age? 44, making her possibly the youngest female nominee.
General Bits. :http://www.squidoo.com/sarah-palin
( website on sarah palin - three reasons to make her VP, three not too!)
Sarah Palin on the VP's Job: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12969.html
2. Human Rights: She's anti-gay rights, although there's a bit of a dispute regarding it. The facts however - show that while she states she has no problems with gays, her voting record and statements regarding it show she can't handle them getting married and having the benefits associated with marriage. She's anti-abortion and pro-guns. The jury is out on equal pay. Also pro-death penalty (but then they all are).
http://www.gay.com/news/article.html?2008/08/29/1
Stop the ACLU Article on Sarah Palin
Sarah Palin's Record and Views on Gay Rights, Women's Rights, etc.
Sarah Palin on Gay Rights - the Gay PAtriot or Conservative Gay Newsletter
3. Voting Record or Sarah Palin on the issues - if you don't want to read for yourself - quick summary, Palin has voted along the same lines as Bush and Cheney have for the last two years on all the issues. If you agree with Bush and Cheney, you will agree with Sarah Palin. She's a bright, no-nonsense, down-to-earth, socially conservative Republican. Regarding Energy? She's from Alaska - she's pro-oil and coal and doesn't see a need for alternative resources. (Alaska's prime industry is Oil - to change tracks would hurt Alaska. Be a bit like the Governor of Texas wanting to look at different energy resources.) She's equally for conservation. Her view is that you should be able to drill for oil and get more oil and still conserve and help the environment, why can't we drill in Alaska yet still be conservationists? There should be a middle ground.
Vote Match for Sarah Palin - this is an objective tally of where Sarah has voted in the last two years during her term as Governor.
Sarah Palin on the Issues
The Huffington Post's take on Palin
This is going to be one heck of an interesting election. A couple of comments, 1)I'm not as impressed with the selection of a female VP as everyone else seems to be - because I remember Margret Thatcher as the first female Prime Minister of England. I also remember that Geraldine Ferraro (Mondale's running mate way back in the 1980s) - who was the first female VP nomination in US history and one I liked and respected a heck of a lot more. So, they nominated a woman? Like I stated before - I personally think it is idiotic to vote for someone based solely on the color of their skin, racial ethnicity, religious beliefs, sexual orientation, and gender. Age on the other hand - I think there should be a limit on. 2) The nomination does win over the social conservatives. Rush Limbaugh was apparently pushing hard for Sarah Palin to be chosen on his radio show for several months now. So the conservatives who hate McCain have been appeased by Palin. But - for anyone who does not like what the Bush Administration has been doing or wants big changes? They've got to realize that Palin and McCain aren't it - Palin and McCain will continue everything Bush and Cheney have done, just a touch or two differently, maybe with more spice than vinegar? So if you liked the substance of Bush/Cheney but not the style - you're going to vote Palin/McCain and probably love what you read above. If, on the other hand, you found the style amusing and the substance frightening - McCain/Palin are your worste nightmare.
Regarding Sarah Palin - here's an interesting post I found via a link by a resident of Palin's state, Alaska: http://artaxastra.livejournal.com/251953.html
However, I think the commentator has a relatively uninformed and narror view of the abortion debate, but then most people do - I've discovered - just like they do on the death penalty, but I'm not going there.
Sometimes I think I know too much about this topic, having researched the history for a debate in high school - in which my father asked me to fight for the right to life, and for a rather interesting paper on the decisions and methodology of two conservative Supreme Court Judges - Sandra Day O'Connor and William Rhenquist in law school. Also, dealt with it from multiple perspectives in college. As a result, I find statements like -oh, you are pro-life, have had a Down's Syndrom kid, and walked the walk, talked the talk - so we have great respect for your views because you know this topic! - to be, with all respect to the sentiment expressed, relatively niave or possibly ignorant on the issue - an emotional/sentimental response as opposed to an educated and informed one.
I lived next door to a woman who had a son with Downs Syndrom and had the child in her 40s. I knew him. And have known many men and women with the syndrom. Most of the women I've known who had abortions did not have them because of Down's Syndrom or the fear of it, in fact I've never met a woman who had an abortion because her child might have Down's Syndrom, while I've known at least ten women who have had to have abortions, and they were traumatic experiences.
I've never had one and never would and have been in a situation in which a close friend was contemplating an abortion - everyone around her was telling her to have it because that's what they would do, and I was the only one cautioning her to think twice and not do it. She had one. Was traumatized. But it was the right choice for "her" at the end. Her choice had nothing to do with Down's Syndrom - it had to do with being too young and too scared to have child. She was afraid of trapping the guy she was in love with and believed was interested in someone else. It was not until well after the abortion that she discovered she was wrong. Her choice was further complicated by the fact that she had been the reason her parents got married. She didn't want to replay their choices. And she made this choice well before the first trimester, during a great deal of stress. I honestly don't know what I would have done if I had been her, and do not feel qualified to judge her for her decision or for that matter to have made it for her. I do not believe as some do that it is a scientific fact that life begins at conception. Nor do I believe that forcing people to have children works - that hurts the child. My friend told me that she did not want to have a child under the conditions her parents had had her. She couldn't do that to a child.
I've also known a woman who desperately wanted her child, but was told that she had to abort it, that the child had severe birth defects. The woman had little money, the father wanted nothing to do with a child or her, her parents had no money, and if she had the child - the child would require a lifetime worth of expensive medical care, physical therapy, and day to day care. This woman was partially death and barely able to care for herself. She'd also been told that it would damage her physically and possibly kill her. Having the abortion was a painful decision. In short, when it comes to having children - you cannot compare people or their choices. From a purely legal, legislative side? When abortion was illegal in the US, more women and children died. Making abortion illegal did not prevent it. Women found other means. Rich women or women with funds- paid doctors to do it in private. Poor women and middle-class women - did it with wires, drugs, and back-street doctors. I've read the horror stories.
Here's some links:
Abortion History: A Timeline Back to Ancient Times:
http://www.hopeclinic.com/AbortionHistory.htm
Roe vs. Wade: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roe_v._Wade
Before Roe vs. Wade:
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/2510/before-em-roe-em-v-em-wade-em-did-10-000-women-a-year-die-from-illegal-abortions
Regarding Sarah Palin qualifications for VP of the USA and views - below are several links from conservative, moderate, and liberal sources regarding the Governor's views on issues ranging from human rights to energy.
1. Biography - turns out she is educated, has a BA in communications and journalism from the University of Idaho and has lived most of her life in Alaska. Also a former beauty queen. Here's the site: http://gov.state.ak.us/bio.html.
One of her kids' names is Willow. Wonder if she was a Buffy fan? Probably not.
She has one son with Down's Syndrom - hence the anti-abortion stance. (By the way, I've met women with children with Down's Syndrom who are not anti-abortion and pro-choice. So it's not automatic).
She has another son, not the same one, going to the Iraq War this year. She's against the draft and for expanding on the Reserves. Also pro-Iraq (proof that having a kid in Iraq does not automatically make you anti-war, nor is having served in Iraq make you anti-Iraq war - know quite a few who have done both and are pro-Iraq.)
Was on the city council, then was Mayor of Wassilia, Alaska and became Governor two years ago. Hunts and fishes with her husband. And is a proud member of the NRA for the last twenty years. Age? 44, making her possibly the youngest female nominee.
General Bits. :http://www.squidoo.com/sarah-palin
( website on sarah palin - three reasons to make her VP, three not too!)
Sarah Palin on the VP's Job: http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12969.html
2. Human Rights: She's anti-gay rights, although there's a bit of a dispute regarding it. The facts however - show that while she states she has no problems with gays, her voting record and statements regarding it show she can't handle them getting married and having the benefits associated with marriage. She's anti-abortion and pro-guns. The jury is out on equal pay. Also pro-death penalty (but then they all are).
http://www.gay.com/news/article.html?2008/08/29/1
Stop the ACLU Article on Sarah Palin
Sarah Palin's Record and Views on Gay Rights, Women's Rights, etc.
Sarah Palin on Gay Rights - the Gay PAtriot or Conservative Gay Newsletter
3. Voting Record or Sarah Palin on the issues - if you don't want to read for yourself - quick summary, Palin has voted along the same lines as Bush and Cheney have for the last two years on all the issues. If you agree with Bush and Cheney, you will agree with Sarah Palin. She's a bright, no-nonsense, down-to-earth, socially conservative Republican. Regarding Energy? She's from Alaska - she's pro-oil and coal and doesn't see a need for alternative resources. (Alaska's prime industry is Oil - to change tracks would hurt Alaska. Be a bit like the Governor of Texas wanting to look at different energy resources.) She's equally for conservation. Her view is that you should be able to drill for oil and get more oil and still conserve and help the environment, why can't we drill in Alaska yet still be conservationists? There should be a middle ground.
Vote Match for Sarah Palin - this is an objective tally of where Sarah has voted in the last two years during her term as Governor.
Sarah Palin on the Issues
The Huffington Post's take on Palin
This is going to be one heck of an interesting election. A couple of comments, 1)I'm not as impressed with the selection of a female VP as everyone else seems to be - because I remember Margret Thatcher as the first female Prime Minister of England. I also remember that Geraldine Ferraro (Mondale's running mate way back in the 1980s) - who was the first female VP nomination in US history and one I liked and respected a heck of a lot more. So, they nominated a woman? Like I stated before - I personally think it is idiotic to vote for someone based solely on the color of their skin, racial ethnicity, religious beliefs, sexual orientation, and gender. Age on the other hand - I think there should be a limit on. 2) The nomination does win over the social conservatives. Rush Limbaugh was apparently pushing hard for Sarah Palin to be chosen on his radio show for several months now. So the conservatives who hate McCain have been appeased by Palin. But - for anyone who does not like what the Bush Administration has been doing or wants big changes? They've got to realize that Palin and McCain aren't it - Palin and McCain will continue everything Bush and Cheney have done, just a touch or two differently, maybe with more spice than vinegar? So if you liked the substance of Bush/Cheney but not the style - you're going to vote Palin/McCain and probably love what you read above. If, on the other hand, you found the style amusing and the substance frightening - McCain/Palin are your worste nightmare.
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no subject
Date: 2008-09-02 04:57 pm (UTC)Would it be OK w/you if I condensed your response to this viewpoint & put it on the comments page for that segment?
Go ahead.
Tay-Sachs children die by age 5 after years of neurological deterioration that causes blindness, paralysis, & pain.
Ah, that's the name of the syndrome that the other woman's child in my example had. Tay-Sachs. The woman had just turned 40. She really wanted the kid, had planned to go back to her parents house in another state to raise it, they'd help her, she was even getting ready to quit her job and applying for Cobra or trying to figure out the health insurance issue (which was a HUGE problem) - when they told her the child had Tay-Sachs and advised she abort. Everyone was devastated. But she had little choice - no money, no insurance that would take care of it (insurance only covered her while she was working and her parent's insurance certainly didn't), and no insurance for the kid. It was an incredibly sad situation.
I'm not impressed w/the nomination of a woman for VP either, both for the reason you gave & because the Republicans are 24 years behind the Democrats.
Yep, the nomination is only historic for the Republican Party, and well the fact that regardless of what happens, at least one minority (who up until the late 1800s didn't even have the right to vote) will be elected either president or vice president of the US.
The thing is, in those days the 2 major parties were much less polarized than they are now. Nixon’s “Southern strategy” &, I’d say, the abortion controversy changed that, & it’s gotten worse since, reaching a peak w/the Gingrich congress.
I agree. I keep reading how the Republican Party is really about supporting individual choices, a smaller government, and fiscal restraint. That it does not want the government to interfer in personal lives or act as a "nanny government". Yet every Republican I've seen from Mayor to Governor to Senator to President of the US is exactly the opposite - to the point, sometimes, of almost being fascist. Guilani wanted to suppress freedom of speech and was attempting to get "offensive" art work removed from the Brooklyn Museum when he was Mayor of NYC. Bloomburg has instigated laws restricting smoking (not that that bothers me) and noise, also pushed zoning that favors the rich business man over the poor. And President's Regan through Bush Jr. have pushed legislation that tells people who they can marry, who can have children, when a pregnancy may be terminated, and where you can travel - not to mention who gets benefits and health care, as well as what religions you should be practicing. How is this not interfering with others individual rights? How is this not being a "nanny state"? It's ironic but Bill Clinton and Jimmy Carter were less into that than the Republicans were. And
in regards to fiscal restraint? Clinton left us with a surplus, after he inherited a huge deficit from Bush Sr. and Regan. Now, Bush Jr has left us with the biggest deficit on record and an economy verging on a depression, due to over-spending. Republican and Fiscal Conservative/social libertarian now sounds like an oxymoron.
The more I read about Palin, the more she scares the heck out of me. A woman who knows how to lie very very well. I just hope others can see it, but I'm not holding my breath.
Did not mean to go on that long. Sorry, some of this should probably have gone in my own LJ, but once I got started....
Not at all. I'm the queen of long responses not to mention long rambling posts...