Angel Season 6: After the Fall Review

[shadowkat]

A couple of posts ago, my friend MASQ, asked us if she should read or would like Angel After the Fall. I responded, ask me after this arc is over. Partly because my friend is a huge Connor fan and I wasn't entirely sure what the writer was doing with the character.

Now that the arc is almost over, with one more issue to go, I'd say, sure read them but keep in mind that this is a graphic novel and while it is plotted by one of the original creators of the series, it is written by an outsider - who is a huge fan of the series but may not view it the same way you did.

Brian Lynch is an interesting writer - but limited. He's not into the layered moralistic and philosophical themes that Whedon and Minear were. And he gets a bit lost when he has one too many characters to juggle. Also comics by the very nature - aren't that detailed. We don't have a bunch of actors, we have one artist. And if you don't like the artist or find the art vague, too abstract, or disorienting, you won't be able to read the comic. I loved the art, but that does not mean you will. Frank Urru doesn't draw so much as paint his comics. His style is almost impressionistic. It's not as lined and detailed as the artists on the Buffy comics. And there's a lot going on - sometimes too much to be able to tell what it is.

Also, I do not envy Brian Lynch's task nor his soon to be successor Kelly Armstrong. Sure it sounds like a great gig, but the fandom is a diverse and vocal bunch, with polarizing views on how the characters should evolve and proceed. When you write these stories, you tread a delicate line - sure you will piss people off - that's inevitable. The trick is not to piss the majority off. Scott Allie on the Buffy comics appears to be doing that all by himself.
Luckily no one seems to pay the "editor" of the work much attention.

Speaking for myself, I've found the Angel comics an interesting and enjoyable read. Often more enjoyable than the Buffy comics. For a lot of reasons, not the least of which being the small fact that I'm still somewhat fascinated by the character of Spike. We all have characters that grab us, some more than others and some longer than others. Spike was mine. The other reasons I enjoyed it - is that it moved quickly, the dialogue was snarky and tongue-in-cheek - often making fun of itself, and Lynch delivered on emotional moments and brought back characters I liked and was interested in seeing again. I also enjoyed his take on the character of Spike - while not perfect, was satisfying enough to keep me entertained.
As for Angel - the title character - Lynch tread a delicate line - having finished all 16 issues, I do not believe that Lynch or Whedon meant us to see Angel as a straight up-hero, so much as a tragic anti-hero who desperately wants to be a hero, the chosen one, who is still after all this time - striving for approval and some eternal award. some redeemption or sign of redeemption - except when he gets it, whether it be a shanshue or adorations, he is miserable and upset about it.

Angel - the character - from my perspective is a metaphor for the human condition. We are selfish beings, ruthless survivors, but at the same time, beautiful souls who want to do good and obtain respect and approval. As well as leave our mark on society. Yet, are not quite sure we deserve any of the accolades or approval we achieve. Is there a higher being? Is there any meaning to this world? Does it matter? And if it does, if that is so, am I good? Am I forgiven? Can I be redeemed?? And what is my role or place in it?

The story is told in Angel's pov, and Angel sees the world after the fall of LA as being his fault.



Angel is the center of that world, it's raison d'etre. It would not exist without him.
It really is all about him. Except for one small thing - the world he's entered is rather small, just spans the length and breadth of downtown LA. Santa Monica is not within its orbit. No one outside this world even knows it went to hell. Or knows what Angel did. Or about Angel's apocalpyse or his shanshue. This is limited to the people in LA. Angel is the big fish in the lake - so to speak, but not the ocean.

Angel shanshues in the story - but it is not a good thing. It's the old be careful what you wish for. All it does is make him weak. And he finds himself envying Spike for being the special one - who he fantasizes fighting alongside Connor in a superhero comic strip, while he, an old man, lurks in the background. The shanshue also serves to be a reminder that Angelus and Angel are one in the same. The demon hunger and cravings may be gone, but the flaw is not. Angel still has a bit of a god complex, which brings me to the villian...

The villian of the peice - is once again, one of Angel's comrades. Once again someone close to Angel has turned into a monster with a bit of a god complex - someone who thinks it is all about them and they alone can save the world. Yet another mirror to hold up to Angel.
This time it is Gunn. A vampire hunter before Angel met him. A leader. The head-honcho of his gang. With Angel's team he'd been little more than the muscel - something that began to grate on him - to such an extent that he sold his soul for an upgrade. As a result he's super-smart, but filled to the brim with regret. That's when he dies and is turned into his worst nightmare - a vampire. Gunn decides much like Angel did, that he is best vampire out there. He now has the visions and they tell him that he will save the world. And he is willing to do so by any means necessarily - just as Angel did in S5.

I've always wondered about the source of the visions - were they really from the PTB? Maybe at first, when Doyle had them. But later? Or were they from hell? Here they are definitely from hell in the form of Wolf Ram and Hart. And Gunn like Cordy in S4, has decided it's all about him - he can save the world or rather LA.

What I love about these delusions is they don't go past LA. They are limited to LA or one small part of the globe. When they go elsewhere, like Sunnydale or Italy - the Angel gang is no longer in control, no longer important.

The story proceeds to show us how myopic Angel and Gunn's views are. Angel of course thinks he has to save everyone by himself, regardless of the fact that he's shanshued and is human now. A punishment not necessarily an award. Wolf Ram and Hart in this series basically gives Angel what he wants but with a twist. He gets the well-adjusted son, but that's just a facade. Connor is like any young man, green around the edges. He's not a trained fighter. He's not sure about romance. And his talks with his father when they occur are awkward and center on Angel, not Connor. He actually has a better relationship with Spike - who's training him and does provide romantic advice, since Angel is not available to do so. Angel is jealous, but Angel never offers. He has bigger problems. He always does.

Same deal with Wes. He has Wes in the form of a friendly ghost. But Wes is intangible and appears to be working for WRH. Wes like all the others Angel convinced to join the company in exchange for his son's life - is under contract to WRH for life. To be fair, Wes chose it.
It's unclear the degree to which it is Angel's fault. Angel perceives it as his fault, but that doesn't mean it is. "OH that's right," more than one character tells Angel, "this is always all about you."

Then there is Spike and Illyria. Watching Spike's relationship with Illyria reminded me a little of Buffy's with Angel and Spike. How Spike is different due to a soul is explored in more depth. He is shown taking a group of people under his wing to save them. But he fails, they are sucked by a demon who takes him and his friends captive (this is depicted in Spike After the Fall not Angel After the Fall) and they are kept alive in their rotting corpses to torment him. Screaming Spike, Spike, Spike, as he sits chained watching. Powerless to stop it.
The only one left alive is a young human male that Spike has an uneasy friendship with - named Jeremy. In the end, Jeremy is grabbed by the demon as leverage against Spike, Spike asks Illyria to help, Illyria chooses to kill Jeremy not try to save him -destroying the leverage. Spike looks on horrified.

Once he defeats the demon, saves Connor (who comes to assist) and with Illyria's help - he takes over the demon's female band of fighters - trains them and Connor, and tells Connor that everyone they save from now on must live with Connor - they are not to live with him. He can't live with humans. And he works to keep Illyria - in her demonic state, not as Fred, who she keeps shifting back too - for fear she'll get damaged in that form. When Spike decides to help Angel - at Lorne's request, he asks Angel for help with Illyria, but Angel is still focused on the big picture. Leaving Spike and Wes to watch her, while he goes after the villain and nearly dies in the process.

Three times in the series - Angel dies or tries to die. First time - he is healed by WRH when he breaks his back. The second - by WRH when Gunn kills him. The third - WRH takes him back to the beginning of the time line - at the fight in the alley - before he shanshued and he is a vampire again. Each time - he does it for a different reason. The first was jumping off a rooftop to save someone (rather stupid and a bit of a show-off - he could have taken the stairs or elevator, but you know Angel), the second - in a fight with Gunn and to walk into the light in order to stop himself from becoming evil, he changes his mind when his son shows up, and the third - when his son dies and Wes and Spike make clear to him that he can't die here. WRH won't let him. The rest of them sort of can, but only at WRH's whim. So he gets the reset...but it's not a true reset, everything that happened still happened, the characters remember it.

It is the opposite of the mindwipe in Season 4 - where it all happened, but they all forgot and think it didn't. Here, they all remember, even if it never did. The writers are playing with memory. If we remember it - is it real? If we don't - does it matter? Buffy played with this as well with Dawn. Does Dawn exist because we remember her? If we had no memory of her, would she not exist? In Angel S5 - Connor is wiped from all their memories but Angel's - yet he exists, he's just not Connor. His identity has changed due to the wipe. Here - the memories remain, but the events are changed. To what degree does the memory of something that didn't happen effect us?

Connor is not the same person at the end as he was at the beginning or is he? It's not clear.
Illyria certainly isn't - she's more human, Fred is in her head, along with Wes, along with guilt and something she hasn't felt before remorse and self-loathing for what she did to Fred.
Spike is not the same - he is more wounded, more aware of his limitations. He does not feel like a hero. And Gunn is overwhelmed with self-loathing. Angel..I don't know about Angel. The choices he made did not change. He only saved Gunn's life in the reset, but he did not stop Gunn from becoming what he became.

I wish I could say that Angel is made self-aware by the end, but he's not. He's Angel. Adorably clueless to his own flaws. Except for one thing, he is being treated like a hero, a legend, his son even tells him he deserves it - but he doesn't feel it and if anything is disturbed and creeped out by the reaction as well as the sudden disappearence of WRH as if it never existed. The world has changed while he was in hell, something has changed, and he's not sure for the better. Did he change it or did something else?

That's how I read the story, not everyone read it this way. Because the way it is written, you can read it much as you may have read the series - that Angel is a big damn hero and not a tragic one. It can be read more than one way, I imagine. But it needs to be. Frustrating as that sounds, it is true - for it to appeal to an universal audience.

Comments

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

As long as Connor doesn't go horribly evil or die never to return from the beyond again, they can do pretty much anything to his character and I'll be all right with it. God knows Whedon and Co did that on the show.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Hee. No worries then. I can tell you as of the 16th issue that Connor does not go horribly evil, and does not die to NEVER return. In short, they actually treat him better here than they did in the series.

Actually I think you'd like him - the Connor/Angel relationship in the series is similar to Origin and NFA.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Awkward, polite, and distant? Yipee.

No, not really. It's better than that.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Ahh. Was it like that? I thought it was closer somehow.
It's a bit less distant. Very warm in places. And not as awkward.

There's some very gratifying emotional moments in the latter issues.

Also we get a bit of Spike/Connor interaction, a little Connor/Gwen and Connor/Nina, and Connor/Kate. Only one of the three is the slightest bit romantic.

Actually I think you'll like it. Connor is treated rather well.
The only complaints I've seen is that he is well - "too well adjusted" - which I don't agree with. And that he hasn't really dealt with the mind-wipe - which I also don't agree with, since I think that was dealt with rather clearly in S5.
Connor chose to accept the better memories and was openly grateful to Angel for giving them to him as well as the option.

The story is really busy thought. Whedon told Lynch to go all out and he does. And there are one too many characters. But Connor's arc is I think a positive one.

[fenderlove.livejournal.com]

Excellent meta; it was a great read. I agree with your thoughts about the ending of the ATF, and I do wonder what, if any, connection Aftermath will have with the future issues of Buffy S8.

[menomegirl.livejournal.com]

Excellent summary of After the Fall.

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

Really nice summing up of your thoughts on all of this.

One point (more to do with AtS than AtF): Did Wes choose it? Home is really ambiguous, but as near as I can tell, Wes did not say "yes". The complication, of course, is that by the time they make the actual choice, they've been changed by the mindwipe. I don't think this makes a difference for the other characters: Gunn and Lorne were always going to go for it; Fred was always going to want to if she could get permission.

But Wes at the beginning of Home is shown to be immune to the argument that the resources at W&H would be a boon to their fight against evil, but at the end that's exactly the reason he gives for taking the deal. Now you could just say that Wes is always portrayed as the pragmatic one (the consequentialist if you want to use technical terms). That's the position he took in Choices in BtVS. That seems to be the sort of guy he is. But. That stance is exactly what went wrong in season 3 when his focus on results caused him to forget to think about means to disastrous results. And this is precisely the memory that would have been wiped before Wesley acquiesced to the deal. As you say, what we remember is a huge chunk of what we are. The series affirms this when Illyria notes that Fred's memories had been altered and that she had been changed as a result. The Wesley who "chose" is materially different from the real Wesley on exactly the point that was decisive in the decision-making process.

The other bit of evidence I have that Wesley's "choice" was forced is that while everyone else ended up with the temptation that got them into the limosine, Wesley did not. He risked temptation because he wanted a shot at rescuing Lilah from her never-ending contract. That didn't work. And then when we next see him he's been mindwiped and he's talking about the potential good they can do with all those resources. That's not why he got into the limo.

There is a nice irony that Wesley went in with the intent of liberating Lilah from her eternal contract, only to be ensnared by one himself. But I don't know that the real Wesley would have said "yes". The other irony is that while everyone understands Fred to be the sacrificial lamb to the whole enterprise, I think it is Wes who got the rawer deal. In a 'verse that is all about sin and redemption, Wes's pivotal experience was stolen from him; the loss of experience elevated Fred's importance to him artificially so he could suffer all the more at her loss; and he was damned to boot. And if either of them really acquiesced to the deal, it was Fred, not Wes.

With respect to AtF, I do think Wes deserved a more interesting arc as he was being written out of the 'verse for good. A victim of Lynch's clutter, no doubt.

At the end of the day, I pretty much agree with your review. Except that I wanted more and therefore am less happy at the end of the day.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I was talking this over with a really good friend tonight, who had written a fanfic version of ATF S6 on the ATPO board with a bunch of other fans. He'd read the first five issues and said his difficulty with Lynch's ATF was that it did not have any restraints on it. A problem he saw with the comics. That is was too busy and had too much going on. To be fair, I told him, Lynch had wanted to hang back a bit, but Whedon told him to cut loose, anything goes. I'm not sure that was sage advice, because I think Lynch unlike Whedon needs more of a central focus.

I agree with you analysis of Wesley by the way. And I think it is important to the thematic arc of the series that Wes is the one Angel can't save. Wes is the sacrificial lamb. The reason is that the two friends who were with Angel from the beginning, who came with him from Sunnydale - who kept him on the straight and narrow so to speak and became his version of Giles and Willow and Xander - are destroyed. He turns them into monsters and they die. Which if you think about it is exactly what Angelus did. As Angel tells Spike in Damage - "I couldn't look away from the evil, it fascinated me, I was the most interested in it. I enjoyed turning people into monsters. It was what I worked hard at." (paraphrased, no time to find the exact words.)

The tragedy at the heart of the Angel story and how it differs from Buffy's is - Angel destroys those who join him. They become his sacrificial lambs.

Doyle - dies, sacrifices himself for Angel. (Also from interviews, if Glenn Quinn, the actor who played Doyle, had still been available and had not died tragically - they would have brought Doyle back as a big bad.)

Cordelia - was supposed to be the big bad in S4, but the actress got pregnant, so they made her possessed instead, with her child as the big bad. She was evil because of the child. The opposite of Darla, who was good because of her child.
And it is Cordy, the surrogate mother, Angel's love and companion, the girl he saves, who twists Connor up inside and corrupts him - when he's still on the fence. Fighting a redeemed Darla for his soul.

TBC

Continued...

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Wesely - you are right about his arc. He goes a monsterous route trying to help Angel, doing the whole ends justify the means thing. And it is ironically similar to Angel's own tatics. Then Wes, in late S4, gets redeemed in a way. Tries to save Lilah by sacrificing himself. Then the mindwipe and he forgets, he re-winds back to who he was before he stole Connor for the child's own good, when he was obsessed with Fred - before he got involved with Lilah. Before Justine slit his throat and he in turn tortured Justine to learn Angel's whereabouts. Before Lilah dies at Cordy's hands, although he's convinced it was Angel's. Before he tried to save her and failed miserably then cut off her head to ensure she did not come back as a vampire. And is so wracked with guilt regarding Lilah's death - at Bad Cordy's hands, he can no longer look at Fred.

It is no accident that it is Wes who breaks the orion box in Origin and reveals the truth of the mindwipe assisted by Illyria to all. Or that it is Wes who feels the most betrayed by Angel and wants to kick him for it. Proof perhaps that Wes would not have chosen it? But then again, maybe he would.
Fred did. And Wes loved Fred. He may have done it follow her.
And he may have done it to follow Angel. I'm not sure what he's feelings were towards Angel or Fred before the mindwipe occurred, we aren't really told. And I like the fact that it is kept ambiguous - particularly since we are after all in Angel's pov in the comics. Not really Wes's. And Angel needs to believe that his friends would have chosen WRH regardless, that the mindwipe he agreed to did not make a difference. There's only so much guilt a man can endure, after all.

I disagree with you that Wes got completely short-changed by the comic. We are told quite a bit. Wes keeps telling Angel that this is all about him, it almost accusatory in tone. Wes does blame Angel a bit for what occurred. But he also blames himself for his own part in it. He chose to kill the magician that enacted the Orion box and caused the mindwipe. I always found it interesting that Wes goes after that member of the Circle of the Black Thorn. And it is Wes, of all the characters who dies. The one - as Spike notes, Angel seems closest to.

"What was that about, looked like you were about to kiss?" Wes was Angel's brother - he shared Angel's father issues, Angel's desire for redemptation, and Angel's love of innocence. Wes discovered the shanshue prophecy. It was Wes who gave Angel hope. Wes and Cordelia.

In ATF - Wes and Cordelia are now ghosts haunting Angel. One for WRH and one for the PTB. Both show him - a nightmare vision of himself. That he is the destroyer of all things. That he is the apocalypse. Wes and Cordy like Angel are incredibly ego-centric and somewhat vain characters and always have been, they share Angel's flaws. Both have a bit of a god complex. Both crave parental approval - particularly their fathers. And both think they are right, almost self-righteous about it. Cordy thinks her gift is from the gods, that she has been lifted. But once there can't not interfer, can't not play god. And Wes - enters WRH thinking he can free Lilah, that he can undue her choice. Both tell Angel that the only way he won't become WRH's pawn is to die. That he can't win.

Re: Continued...Connor

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

It is Connor that grounds him that tells him this is not so.
He does not have to die, that he is not this person. The son who is him but is not. Connor who has two sets of memories - one nightmare and one good. Connor who has chosen which set of memories to be his reality. And Connor tells Angel he can choose as well - it is not written, you can choose who you are.

And Cordy and Wes fade. When Connor dies in the hell LA, Wes gives Angel the key to getting out - via Spike's off-hand remark about the fact that Angel can't be killed. Gunn thought Illyria and Connor were the keys, but no it is Angel's death that is - forcing WRH to do the reset. Connor is alive again, as is Gunn, and Angel is a vampire.

But Connor remembers dying. Connor is what motivates Angel, because Connor is Angel's sole chance at redemption. Through Connor's eyes - Angel obtains the approval he was never able to win from his father. The son and father change places. The son grants the father forgiveness, and approval. The son tells the father that he is a good man.

It's not unsimilar to what they did with Spike in S5 - where he is sinking into hell, and it is Fred who tells him that he is worth saving. That he is a hero, a champion, a good man. She is like a younger sister, neither lover nor mother, and it is she who saves him.

You think the consequences of the mindwipe aren't addressed. But I think they are. Just within the subtext. We often choose what we wish to remember. We choose how we wish to remember it, embellishing bits here and there. Memory lies. Memory is ambigious. I've learned that this year watching my grandmother's memories deterioate and scatter - and fracture.
And twist. Is reality what we remember? Connor choses the present - the reality he is in. And treats the rest as but a dream or nightmare. He says as much in Origin. It does not need to be repeated.

But in a way it is - when Connor meets Kate and Gwen, and Spike, he seems to say that he chose the memories that made him happy, yet uses the rest to help him survive. He comparmentalizes. And he says in NFA and ORgin that he is grateful to have a father willing to give him those good memories. To provide him with happy memories that replaced the bad ones. Granted it came at a price, but I can't fault Connor for being grateful. It's a human response. Nor can I fault him for forgiving Angel.

Did the mindwipe cause a worse future than if it had not happened? We have no way of knowing. I think it would have happened any way. Perhaps in a different way, but it would have. Wes was doomed to die the moment he met and chose to walk along Angel's path, as was Gunn, Fred, and Cordelia.
But it is not Angel's fault, it is their own flaws that came into play. They all, if you think about, echoed Angel's flaw.
It's what drew them together in a way.

Connor...is in a way the hope, the light at the end of Angel's tunnel. Or is he? We don't know. The story is far from over, after all.

Re: Continued...Connor

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

By far from over - I mean that we have new writer and no clue how long it will continue. Lynch's arc ends in 17. We don't know what will happen next.

Re: Continued...Connor

[2maggie2.livejournal.com]

Wes's arc: I agree that it's not nothing. But Wes was such an incredibly compelling figure, and this does seem to be his last turn on the stage. Something that did more to encompass the the greatness of his story would have been good. But I don't know what that would have looked like, so I can't complain in any particular way. As a point of clarification: did Lynch ever do anything with the ambiguity of whether Wes was a free agent or manipulated by W&H? Angel wondered and then he seems to have stopped wondering.

Of course, maybe that's a pretty good way of summing up their very complicated relationship. They do have the same faults. And so it's not terrible that Wesley suffers. But notice how he takes on Angel's guilt. Angel just isn't innocent in his loss of Connor. Holtz is exacting revenge on him for crimes he committed. Connor wouldn't exist if Angel hadn't risked losing his soul, the world be damned. Connor is a good that comes to Angel out of one of Angel's worst acts. Wesley tries to achieve a good end, but inadvertently brings about a terrible end. And Angel freely and willfully dumps all of his own guilt onto Wesley. And Wesley essentially acquiesces. He feels guilty himself. And perhaps because of his relationship with his father is incapable of defending himself against Angel. I don't know. But oh how they are twisted together in an horrible beautiful way. But if Angel is incapable of taking responsibility for his own actions, it is because he has "friends" like Wesley who are willing to let him.

I don't have a problem with Connor's reaction to the mindwipe. It was all done because his father was trying to save him. And the post-home Connor was the beneficiary. (I like your read of him as choosing memories, but it just seems to me more natural to think his primary identity is post-home Connor so that the memories of this other Connor would have to seem to be at a remove.)

My problem with the mindwipe is that it just seems to me to be monstrous. He's changing the identities of his friends, ripping out important life experiences in order to pursue his own ends. It would have been kinder to rape them all, because a physical violation is less awful that this complete invasion of their basic identities. I don't know if ME thought it as being that monstrous. Tara does leave Willow over doing the same thing to her. But nobody is really outraged about the violation qua violation, the way that we are meant to be outraged by some of the evil acts of other characters. So it would make sense that if ME doesn't feel the weight of the sin, they aren't going to deal with it to my satisfaction. I assume that if Angel had raped his friends he would have had to deal with some direct repercussions of his act. Or maybe it's a representation of how completely woven into Angel's web they all are -- that they really don't murmur in protest when he literally plays God with their very personhoods.

Connor's forgiveness is a touch of grace. I'm not sure the world of Angel has anything to do with grace. But I can see why people would be anxious for the sins of the father to not be visited upon the son. And you're right that there's something nice about the son giving to the father that which the father could never give the son. But since I see the whole series as a huge Shakespearian tragedy, it seems to me that there should be nothing but dead bodies at the end. Maybe with a crippled Connor surviving to tell the tales to others. (How much courage does it take these days to do real, full, they all die in the end because of their tragic flaws tragedy? I can see why they blinked. Or maybe Whedon is telling us that the show really ended at NFA, and for people who don't get that or don't want that here's this other story. Angel lite as it were. Made safe for our oh-so-delicate sensibilities.)

Re: Continued...Connor

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

As a point of clarification: did Lynch ever do anything with the ambiguity of whether Wes was a free agent or manipulated by W&H? Angel wondered and then he seems to have stopped wondering.

Actually he does, but not through Angel, exactly. Wes has a very brief scene - I can't remember where - in which he pretty much gets across that he can find loopholes. They want him to stop Angel from dying.
Which he keeps going against in all sorts of snide little ways. Wes - is an interesting character, a contradiction in terms. He's the "headboy" but he never follows the rules. He's in love with rules and regulations, but he keeps finding ways around them. Reminds me a lot of lawyers actually. ;-) (I went to law school, so it's sort an inside joke).

I know what you wanted from Wes' storyline - but the limitations of the medium made it almost impossible. They would have had to do a mini-series just featuring Wes. I think if we had an Angel S6 - you would have gotten what you wanted or something a lot closer to it - because Whedon most likely would have done a couple of episodes focusing solely on Wes and Illyria, much as he did in S5. Here, we get one issue that sort of does, illustrated by Nick Runge. I can't remember which one it is - but it takes place shortly after the defeat the Lords and high-tail it to the Hyperion.

But if Angel is incapable of taking responsibility for his own actions, it is because he has "friends" like Wesley who are willing to let him.

I don't think that's true. He does take responsibility in a way. And he does pay for it. He just, has a tendency to blame a lot of things on his alter-ego.
But I'd say he took responsibility for the mind-wipe and joining WRH. Almost too much responsibility. Remember - we really have no way of knowing for certain if they would have joined without the mindwipe.
They were offered prior to it. And Gunn definitely said yes, as did Fred. Wes - was the only one on the fence, but that's only because of his relationship with Lilah and how much he knew about WRH that the others, excluding Angel, did not. Also, it's never been clear how much the mindwipe took away of their memories and what it replaced them with. We gets hints here and there, but nothing definite. You're Welcome - touches on the consequences, as does Origin, and Hole in the World.


(How much courage does it take these days to do real, full, they all die in the end because of their tragic flaws tragedy? I can see why they blinked. Or maybe Whedon is telling us that the show really ended at NFA, and for people who don't get that or don't want that here's this other story. Angel lite as it were. Made safe for our oh-so-delicate sensibilities.)

I don't think it's about courage, so much as about - do I have more story I want to tell. Also remember they are making money off of this - it's not for their entertainment. So, you know, job.

That said, the story isn't over yet. In Fray - it is made clear that Buffy closes off all the demons, including vampires into another dimension. Some vampires leak through, but they are weaker versions or lurks and it's only many many years later. This means that at some point Whedon plans on either killing all the characters in Angel who aren't human, or making them human, or creating a loop-hole.

At any rate, I would not be the least surprised if he killed off Buffy, Angel, Spike - etc. He has before, after all. Granted they came back to life. But there's nothing to keep from doing it again. Whedon does not shy away from killing beloved characters - if they further his plot and story themes.

Lynch won't do it unless Whedon let's him. Nor will anyone else writing Angel - if it is meant to be part of Whedon's Buffy comic verse. And IDW won't let them do it on their own.

I loved the ending of NFA, because I read it as everyone dies or is going out to die, sort of a Wild Bunch ending. But, I also like the story continuing.

[shapinglight]

Here on moscow_watcher's rec. Very interesting review. I agree with you about this series being very revealing of Lynch's strengths and weaknesses as a comic book writer.

It's not really surprising that his three Spike series, which have a smaller focus, fewer characters, and are less ambitious are rather more successful. In those, a tonal balance between light and dark is well achieved. In A: AtF, it falters and certain simplifications of the plot - ie. the shanshu is back to being a tangible thing with Angel's name written on it -make it, as Maggie says above, more Angel-lite than a true continuation of the show.

I enjoyed it, though - would have enjoyed it more if Spike's arc had been less bleak.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Lynch apparently agrees with you on the "Angel-lite" aspect. He states in the exit interview in the back of Angel 16 - that he wishes he'd gotten to explore Angel more, but he had too many balls to juggle and too many characters to focus on. If he were to write another book - he'd limit the characters and write a solo Angel story.

I agree - the book's far too busy and there are one too many big scale, special effects laden fight sequences. The Cordy/Angel chat was fine, but could have been shorter.

The Spike series benefited from the smaller focus and less characters.

I actually like the fact that Spike's arc was bleak, but then I'm a huge fan of angst in fiction. Heck, I watch BSG and Lost.

[shapinglight]

I could cope with the bleakness of Spike's arc better if I didn't now have to contrast it with Angel's, which basically seems to end with, Angel saves everything and is lauded a the big hero, whereas Spike fails at everything he does.

Which again, I could possibly cope with if I thought Lynch had meant to show us that, but various things he's said have led me to conclude that he didn't.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Sooo..in other words, you didn't agree with my meta above and read Lynch's work literally sans the somewhat sacrcastic sense of humor?

[shapinglight]

I'm sorry. I wrote my second reply to you several days after reading the original post and had probably misremembered what you wrote.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Sorry, I felt like was beginning to repeat myself. Truth is I do the same thing, respond to a post forgetting what the original one said. Gotten into a lot of dicy conversations doing that. Can't really get upset at you for doing more or less the same thing.

Also, you have no way of knowing that I posted a rather lenghy response above to much the same point.
(Unless you felt like reading it and if I were you, I probably wouldn't have.)

At any rate - I think if you keep in mind the following things, you will realize that the writers do not see Angel as a hero, nor does Angel really - he just wants to be seen as one. That last page was meant to be highly ironic and very tongue in cheek.

1. The boy taking his photo with Angel is the same guy who was in First Night declaring the world was going to end and then not too happy with what happened to him.

2. This issue comments on the events in Buffy S8 Harmonic Divergence - where vampires are now considered hot, celebrities, and cool.

3. The only people who remember or know what happened in LA were in LA.

4. This is a verse where the hero, Buffy, no one knows or appreciates. Where true heroes are often overlooked and get no credit for their deeds or if they do, a limited amount.

Here Angel is being celebrated as a hero? And Angel declares himself the hero?

[shapinglight]

Well, I guess no 17 should give us some more clues about how we're supposed to regard what happened.

[makd.livejournal.com]

excellent meta. Much appreciated.

[elisi]

I really, really like this. I don't have much to add right now (am trying to organise my own thoughts and am short on time), but I wrote some meta on issue 15 that touches on a lot the same issues and ideas, if you're curious. Especially liked the way you showed everyone being changed by their trip to hell, except for Angel - maybe. It's interesting, actually, how little he has changed over the years... But that is a much longer topic.

Actually, I am yet again reminded of the_royal_anna's post on 'Damage', which continues to be one of the best explorations of Angel (and Spike's) character(s) that I've ever read. Long, but excellent.

Anyway, I'll probably come back to this at some point and waffle a lot! ;) *bookmarks*