Interesting Buffy Fandom tidbits - when should a writer cater to fans, if at all?

[shadowkat]

1. Nicholas Brendan according to the SlayAlive post does not like the Dawn/Xander pairing.
In related news, at Hallowhedon, Brendan revealed that he and Gellar talked about Xander and Buffy getting together and pitched it. Whedon said no. And apparently Whedon had planned on killing Xander off in S7, but the other writers talked him out of it - stating the fans would be *really* upset, *vehementally* upset.

They weren't wrong about that - but it does bring up a question that I'd like to throw out there: Should fans have a say in the plotting, etc of a story? Should the writers have convinced Whedon to cater to their fans? Should it matter that it would upset the fans if a character was killed or a beloved character did a horrible thing? Should a writer EVER cater to his or her fans? And if so, when? And to what extent would catering hurt the story? And what extent does this kill the reality of the story - after all people we love do die, and people we love do horrible things - to what extent should writing reflect that reality and to what extent should it merely entertain and comfort?

Okay that's a lot of questions. I don't know what I think on this right now. I really don't. I know that I wish sometimes the writer would ignore the fans, but other times, I don't. I can argue it both ways to be honest. So feel free to persuade, discuss, etc!

As a sub-thread of that question - to what extent has the internet changed how fans can affect the writing/plot of a tv show, novel, or movie? Is this a good thing, bad thing, or neutral thing??

2. James Marsters on youtube did a really interesting bit on kissing on camera - how difficult it is to do well, how awkward, and how much you have to trust your partner. He said if you do it for pleasure - it looks horrible. So you never enjoy it. And if he had to choose anyone to do it with again it would be John Barrowman - who went out of his way to make Marsters comfortable. Marsters also gives some great hints on how to keep a guy from mauling you - which I already knew but are quite useful - sneeze, step on his foot, elbow him in the gut.

3. Apparently Caprica has three cameras, a bit budget, and is scarey - with great scripts.
Marsters plays a terrorist that everyone is terrified of, and he's been told he's doing rather well. Hmm. Okay, that and the trailer and Eric Stolz is making me really look forward to Caprica. (Of course it helps that I love Espenson's tv writing, and adored BSG).

4. Apparently Georges Jeanty is better at drawing Joss Whedon than Sarah Michelle Gellar, who knew? (Brad Metzler's blog has a picture of Whedon and Buffy together drawn by Jeanty.)

Comments

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Hm, about catering to the fans and so on. Writing a tv show is imho never a completely free creative process. You cater to the ratings, the network, the actors, the fans and it still has to come out good.

So I'd say the more original creativity the better but catering to the fans once in a while doesn't spoil the whole thing, even if only doing so does.

I'm avoidig spoilers for caprica, but i'm so excited about JM on it!

And it's easy to believe the part about the kissing. Tv acting s so weird to do, because you can barely move your face, because it will look all scrunched up. It's the world of understatement when on a stage you usually overexpress.

[shapinglight]

Lots of interesting questions, which I hope to answer when I get back from work. In the meantime, your last point made me laugh.

[frenchani.livejournal.com]

I'm glad that Whedon said no to Gellar and Brendon about Xander and Buffy getting together! It would have been so soapish!!!!

I tend to think that fans should not have a say in the plotting either.

Speaking of Caprica, you should try to watch the pilot because I've been told that the episode they will show in January 22 is a cut version (the pilot was 90 minutes on DVD). As for the series, I wonder if James got to play in front of Eric...

[londonkds.livejournal.com]

Hmmmm, Buffy/Xander. I'd vote no, it would seem too much like fanboy wish-fulfillment to pair those two off romantically. Plus, I like opposite-sex friendships that don't have to be sexualised/romanticised: I was very unhappy with Angel/Cordelia when they went to it overtly on screen.

General fan responses: well, there are good and bad results. I think Pixar have been consciously responding to reactions to their films: Ratatouille seemed to me to be repeating the respect for talent in The Incredibles while overtly rejecting the creepy subtexts about the natural superiority of blood aristocracy, and the sympathetic fatness of the scout in Up might be a response to the attacks on perceived mockery and demonisation of fat people in WALL-E. On the other hand, the Supernatural scriptwriters seem to me to have at times achieved a horrific fusion of fanboy sexism and slash fangirl female-character hate through listening to their fanbase too much, and I thought much of the Spike characterisation in S7 of Buffy failed through trying to keep too many strands of fandom happy.

[hazel75.livejournal.com]

In general, I'd say that writers shouldn't cater to fans. Fans are fickle and, well, not necessarily the best judge of the best turn for a show to make -- there's definitely more bad, wish-fulfillment fic out there than good stuff. And, frankly, I think S7 BtVS could have been more interesting if they had made some tough choices and killed off Xander. There was nothing for his character to do all season, such that he was pretty much a fifth wheel. An interesting and plot-important death would have been preferable, imo. Of course, Xander isn't one of my faves, though, so this is relatively easy for me to say. If we were talking about Spike, I'd probably have a different opinion...

[stormwreath.livejournal.com]

I think it's a fine line. If a writer is constantly offering fan service and shaping the plot to satisfy the demands of the message boards and blogs, then I think a story can suffer greatly. (*coughAngelATFcough*) While some fans are just as creative and good at characterisation and plotting as professional writers, a lot of them aren't. If they were, they'd be writers themselves - and so their ideas of what would make a good story are often rather trite and obvious.

But on the other hand, a writer who ignores the audience completely and follows his or her muse wherever it may lead runs the risk of completely alienating the audience, or even offending them. If you're only producing art for art's sake, you might be willing to do that anyway, even if only one person in a thousand appreciates what you're doing. But people like Joss aren't artists, they're entertainers. They're being paid by a TV network or publishing company to produce work that will attract a large audience and bring in revenue; and they have other people - actors, film crew, writers, artists, adminstrative staff - whose own employment depends on them succeeding in their task. So completely ignoring fan opinion is self-indulgent and irresponsible.


Regarding Xander/Dawn - I think part of that might be the age difference. In May 2003 Michelle Trachtenberg was 17 and Nicholas Brendon was 32, almost twice her age (a 15-year gap). However in May 2003 Dawn Summers was 16 and Xander Harris was 22, only a 6-year difference. It's not surprising that Nick would personally feel more icky about a relationship with Michelle than Xander would about Dawn...

[shapinglight]

I've heard all the Xander stuff before. I think Nick Brendon said he found the idea of Xander/Dawn squicky at the Hallowhedon convention last weekend.

As for whether a writer should ever cater to his/her fans, where TV is concerned I think it's inevitable. TV shows rely on ratings so when a very recognisable trend appears among the fans (you mention the hostility to re-Spuffy after the AR, which I still can't for the life of me believe Joss hadn't even thought of)then the writers/producers/whatever would be foolish to ignore it completely.

Unless the show is ending and it doesn't matter any more.

4. Apparently Georges Jeanty is better at drawing Joss Whedon than Sarah Michelle Gellar, who knew? (Brad Metzler's blog has a picture of Whedon and Buffy together drawn by Jeanty.)

:Snort: So true.

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

Well I think Joss would have killed Xander anyway if he had felt that it was a vital point to be made in the final season (just as he felt that killing Wash was important to the impact of the movie 'Serenity' while admitting that Wash would still be alive if the TV show hadn't been cancelled). I'm just saying that Joss isn't likely to give way if he has something he is trying to achieve....
But he had a lot of different plot points going on with Buffy's Season 7 and I don't think that Xander needed to die to fulfill any of them.

Who knows where he is going w/Season 8?! I don't expect Xander & Dawn to get married...
frankly I'm half expecting confusion and conflict with over-lapping romantic triangles.

4. Apparently Georges Jeanty is better at drawing Joss Whedon than Sarah Michelle Gellar, who knew? (Brad Metzler's blog has a picture of Whedon and Buffy together drawn by Jeanty.)
wait...what? Do you have a link? I so want to see that!

Like you I feel that the artwork has been weaker than usual lately... it does make the story harder to follow when you are guessing at who is who.

[habibti.livejournal.com]

Just finished reading the latest Buffy comic and gotta agree with Nick Brendon - D/X is squick-ville. Isn't she still underage? While I like the fact that Joss messes around with us and doesn't cater to what we want, that just goes too far for me.

It it had been up to me, Buffy and Xander would've been together from the get go. Then we wouldn't have had the Angel, Riley and Spike goodness that followed, so listening to me would've been a really bad move. I think authors should have the freedom to take us on a journey that we're not always comfortable with but I have to draw the line with getting involved with someone you used to baby-sit. And I also don't see the emotional reality of the pairing either.

Maybe someone has some ideas on that?