(no subject)

[shadowkat]

Should go to the gym after work today, but it's only 2:30 and I feel draggy.
Busy but draggy. Maybe tomorrow? Did manage to get to the gym twice last week, be curious to see if can do that again this week...particularly since it will be "colder" as in a 30 degree drop towards end of week. Was 55 degrees yesterday (Farhenheit) and will be 28 degrees by Friday or so I've read. Fun.

Favorite Happy show continues to be Big Bang Theory - which once again had me cackling like a loon last night. It's the only sitch I've found to date, outside of maybe Better Off Ted and Modern Family that is not obsessed with sex.

The funny? A joke about a Wolverine comic, which I'm convinced only a geek or someone who knows guys like this would get.

Only drawback- Big Bang is a bit sexist, but then 90% of the tv shows are.
I can only think of maybe three or four that I don't have to turn off my inner feminist in order to watch. But to be honest, that was true of Star Trek too, well up until Voyager, at any rate. One of the many reasons I preferred Bab5 to DS9.

Comments

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

Well they have had a few brilliant women as short term characters (each as flawed/screwed up as our heroes are) but it is true that The Big Bang Theory is very much from the POV of these 4 men.... I don't think it was meant to be sexist as much as to show how little these geeky guys understand how to deal with relationships (or really any other people except those in their tiny peer group). A sexist show (like Mad Men) would celebrate how cool the men are who use and abuse women, while The Big Bang Theory makes us laugh at how these guys don't know how to have a normal relationship (besides, it isn't like they ever mean to use or abuse anyone).

See how defensive I get? I love my Big Bang Theory! lol

[buffyannotater.livejournal.com]

I definitely agree with this. Even Penny, who started off seeming like the "dumb blonde" has evolved into someone who may not be in the guys' intellectual level but who can more than hold her own in conversation with them. She brings a "real person" perspective.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I wonder why there are no female comic book geeks shown in this series? And the only time - we see them making out with the guys. Every scene with Penny - she's in some way referred to in a sexual manner or maternal one.

They had an excellent opportunity to break with that - when Danica from Wonder Years guest starred or Wolwoitiz got a signifcant other - but both times - shown as sex objects. Granted that's in character for the guys, but there are days, I have to admit to myself that I'm watching a sitcom around the Trioka. It's hilarious, but it is also a bit sexist.

[buffyannotater.livejournal.com]

Can't say I agree. I don't see Howard's girlfriend as a sex object at all. I mean, her definition of third base is basically snuggling. Penny's in a relationship with Leonard right now, so the majority of her story arc is related to the two of them being together. But that's only because their relationship is new and fresh. Her character hasn't been defined by her relationship with Leonard.

She also is never objectified in any manner in any scene alone with her and Sheldon--the relationship that really is at the heart of this series, for me. They have also done some interesting twists with her character. As she has become friends with them, there is a recurring thread that she is becoming more and more geeky, such as the brilliant season 2 episode where she becomes addicted to an MMORPG, or the one where the new hot girl moves into the apartment building, tries to use the guys, and Penny attempts to thwart her, discovering Star Trek references pouring out of her mouth that she never knew were there before.

And then there's Leslie Winkle, a major recurring character who is not only as smart as Sheldon but sexually objectifies both Leonard and Howard in a manner that puts both of them in the traditional female role in their relationships with her. Howard finds himself being treated the way he's always treated women.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Thank you for sharing your perspective.

I have admittedly not seen the entire series and am merely commenting on the last couple of episodes that I have seen.

Why so defensive??

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Only drawback- Big Bang is a bit sexist, but then 90% of the tv shows are. I can only think of maybe three or four that I don't have to turn off my inner feminist in order to watch. But to be honest, that was true of Star Trek too, well up until Voyager, at any rate. One of the many reasons I preferred Bab5 to DS9.

I repeated what I said above because from your reply, I think you misread it. I did not say Big Bang was the only sexist program or that it was completely sexist, but that is sexist.
Which it is.

Penny is a ditzy waitress. She's a real person, but pretty, hot, and a ditz. The other women are displayed primarily as sex objects or mothers. I have not seen a female professor yet.
When Danica, a brilliant mathematician guest starred - she didn't have more than two lines and was shown doing nothing more than making out with another character.

While Mad Men actually has three dimensional female characters that we see the entire story from. Penny is a complex and fascinating character - who has become a Sr. Copywriter in a male profession. The series also depicts how women were actually and are actually treated in the advertising industry, it is at times bitingly satirical. The male characters depicted in a realistic way.

I enjoy both shows for different reasons, but Big Bang from what I've seen so far is a tad bit more sexist, but that's the pov - those guys are sexist. Mad Men has women writers and
is depicting the consequences of sexism, it shows the struggle women had in that industry and during that time period. I actually can identify - because I've had those experiences and seen them.

Like it or not, our society is sexist - it is run by men, white men. All the situation comedies on tv are fairly sexist. I just turn off that part of my brain to enjoy them. ;-)

Re: Why so defensive??

[buffyannotater.livejournal.com]

I have not seen a female professor yet.

Leonard's mother, portrayed by Christine Baranski, is a world-renowned psychiatrist and professor of psychology, who has appeared numerous times and is so smart, she makes Leonard look stupid by comparison.

Re: Why so defensive??

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Please see this link here - that I just read, which perfectly explains why the show is more watchable now but unwatchable in its first season...


http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2010/01/how_degazing_saved_the_big_ban.html

Re: Why so defensive??

[buffyannotater.livejournal.com]

She has a point about Penny but I still find it extremely skewed. But again, I see Penny's depiction in the early episodes as being more an effect of the guys not knowing her very well. Geeky guys are extremely sexist, mostly because most of them can't get women. The hot girl across the hall is a cliche of a geek's dream. As they came to know Penny better, her character opened up.

I don't necessarily think the show is at fault for being in a geek POV. Very few shows are. Particularly this show, which is in a far more genuine geek POV than the typical TV geek characters. But all the characters have grown, and the ability to see other sides to Penny is one of those reasons. As she becomes friends with them (and she's probably the most attractive person who has ever been on speaking terms with any of them), she's no longer the unattainable dream but a real person.

And this was helped a great deal by Sheldon, a completely asexual guy who has no interest in her in that way whatsoever.

Another point - While the pilot is not perfect, it has some genius moments, and, overall, I actually have more trouble with Sheldon's depiction in that than Penny's, and that problem is solved by the second episode.

Re: Why so defensive??

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Thanks again for sharing your perspective.

Mine's different, possibly because I know these guys really really well, they aren't that different from Warren/Andrew/Jonathan - a rather familar trope in tv, although admittedly far better developed here than elsewhere and far more realistic. I've been the invisible female in the comics store who didn't look like the hot Penny with sexy outfits, but had a rather fascinating conversation with Sheldon. Sheldon is my favorite character. This wouldn't irk me, if it were not among the least sexist of the sitcoms...

And ...90% of the tv shows - specifically sitcoms are from this perspective. I can't think of any that aren't at this moment in time which are not on HBO or Premium Cable (I don't have access to those). Ironically this sitcom is actually one of least sexist on tv, and that I think...is part of the problem.
But, it is also, admittedly a reflection of our society at large - which like it or not is still incredibly sexist. ;-)

One more thing about Penny

[buffyannotater.livejournal.com]

Another thing that has opened up Penny's character is that not only have the guys changed from prolonged contact with her, but she has also changed, because this is also the first time she's really hung out with and had friendships with people who aren't as hot as she is. At the beginning, she was using her "feminine powers" to get these dorky guys to do things for her, which is something you could tell she always fell back on, because it was easy. She's lived her whole life in a society that tells her she gets things when she does this.

As she and the guys started to know each other better, though, she became more confident in herself and started to relate to them as people, not potential minions, stopped using her "little girl" voice, and realized that they weren't actually from a different species. She could carry on a conversation with them, even if some of the science will go over her head. Sometimes, she realizes, she can even be smarter than them, such as when it comes to the "outside world." There's one great moment where Sheldon tells Penny that he knows physics and therefore knows about absolutely everything in the universe, and she counters, "Oh, yeah, what's Radiohead?" And Sheldon's eye starts twitching like a broken-down computer. Another time, after she fails at their trivia game, she assembles her own trivia game for them, which is all pop culture, and of course, they get none of it. "Not so smart after all," she says.

I actually always found the evolution extremely subtle and realistic. There isn't one episode where you can point to and say "Penny has changed overnight," but neither can you for the others (except for Sheldon, who was flat-out different in the pilot). It happens quite organically.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Sorry don't mean to rain on your parade, just explaining why the show irks me and why it was hard for me to watch to start out with. Been struggling with Glee for much the same reasons, and oh so many other shows...that I've lost count.

We have different buttons...;-)

That said, the bit about the Wolverine comic...sigh, never laughed so hard!

[curlymynci.livejournal.com]

Did you read the "male gaze" article on BBT? I might have gotten it from you in the first place, but just in case:

http://www.npr.org/blogs/monkeysee/2010/01/how_degazing_saved_the_big_ban.html

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Thank you !!!

I hadn't read it until now, but this so perfectly explains why I found the show unbearable and unwatchable in its first season, but now for some reason see it as incredibly funny...they changed the character of Penny. It is still flawed, but it is as the writer of this article so aptly states much much better. Had the exact same experience this writer had.

By removing the male gaze as a central point, they opened the show up to a wider viewership.