Five Things About Fanfiction
Mar. 1st, 2010 10:19 pm![[personal profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/user.png){kind=small}
shadowkat1. I don't normally rec' let alone admit to reading Everybodys Human AU Spuffy fanfic - but Crave, a Fanfiction written by ![[livejournal.com profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/external/lj-userinfo.gif)
nautibitz which can be found here:http://community.livejournal.com/nautific/profile - is rather brilliant. It is BSDM - so not for everyone. Also Spike is not nice and quite complex. But her character depictions, how she threads themes from both series, along with character tropes from both series, as well as rips away the metaphors - is insightful and surprising. She also has a wicked and delightful sense of humor that is lacking from a lot of fic. Naughty is witty. The fic reminds me a bit of the Rosemary Rodgers Modern Day Bodice Rippers that I read as a teen, but a lot more risque. Rosemary has nothing on Nautibitz. She bends and twists characters, revealing new sides. In this fic, Buffy is married to Lindsey, whose father is wealthy billionaire Spike - and Spike proceeds to go after Buffy. It's Father-in-law Fic, the opposite of the male equivalent - Mother in Law Fic (a la The Graduate). WARNING: The thing about this type of fic? You have to go in with an open-mind, if you can only read fic that fits your view of canon, this is NOT for you. But if you read fanfic in much the same way you once told stories with paper dolls or took characters out of favorite fairy tales and placed them in your own or role played, just play, without rigid rules or boundaries - it is for you. For me, I like to see twists on similar themes - I see fanfiction as means of a story being told in another way. Taking me inside another pov, another head...telling me something new about the people, and myself and the world.
If we think about it Jane Austen and William Shakespeare have been told in various ways, often the most interesting being the least conventional.
I love this bit from her fic, because it provides an interesting explanation of Buffy's relationship and attraction to both Spike and Angel, and vampires in general...even if it isn't exact, while at the same time underlines the fact that it is not that simple - we can psychoanlyze ourselves to death, but when it comes to human emotions and things like love, desire, hate...it is never that simple. You can't just put a neat tag on it. People are more complex than that. :
"Don't you mean safe? If she thought about it, wasn't Spike the flipside of that coin? The opposite of everything she knew was good for her? An extreme representation of her negligent, alcoholic, self-serving father? Of course he was. Spike gave her the raw, rapt, unapologetically male attention she'd never dared to dream of but had obviously always sought -- even moreso in the light of her father's recent death. That's why she'd eaten it up, that's why she felt an immediate connection, that's why she'd let it go so far...That's why it broke her heart to her him say the words, "I don't want you." It crystallized her hidden fear of abandonment. Of course that's all he was. A rich cultured version of her deadbeat father. And if her mother was here, she'd say he was a vampire: he reels you in with charming little lies, then drains the life out of you when you bare your neck."
2.
Okay, would someone like to explain to me what the point is to plagarizing someone else's fanfic? Why would you bother? Nothing against fanfic, I rather adore fanfic, but seriously what is the point? It's not like you are getting paid for it. It's not like you have to write it or anything or that it is a class-assignment. Most people who plagarize do it for one of two reasons 1)they are suffering from writers block, and have to get a story sold, 2) have to turn in a paper for class. But fanfic? Doesn't plagarizing go against the whole point of writing fanfic to begin with - which is to play with an idea and share it with others? Be a bit like plagarizing meta. I mean if the language or story is already out there - why copy it? I'd think it would be a colossal waste of time. I totally get why the people being plagarized are livid and upset, I'd be too. But I do not understand the motivation of the plagarizer. That boggles my mind. Clearly too much time on their hands. Or maybe they are just bored? Or have to find some way to get their jollies off? Or they don't know they are plagarizing - although how you can't know, is mind boggling as well.
Add to this - the guy that I read who was doing it? Is actually not a bad tv review writer. He wrote great snarky reviews of the episodes when they aired back in 2002 on BC&S Spoiler Board. Major poster on BC&S. So, why is he wasting his energy plagarizing erotic fanfic, posting it on sites, and pissing everyone in fandom off? Goes to show you, when you think you are being crazy and self-destructive, all you need to do is go online and find someone crazier and more self-destructive than you are. (shakes head in bewilderment).
3. Why do people write and read fanfic? What compells us to do it? And what draws us to it?
And what do we look for in fic that we can't find in something else? And more to the point, why are we so judgmental and critical of the fanfic that others write and read - regardless of the type? Why are people judgmental of others tastes?
4.Who in the heck came up with OTP as one true ship, why isn't it OTS - OTS would make more sense and wouldn't be confusing since (ETA: Never mind, I figured it out on the way to work this morning, when it hit me = "paring" and I thought, Duh. Then I pondered why people picked pairing over "ship" or "relationship" or "romance"...because in the real world - OTP means On-Time Performance and has meant this since the 1800s, hence my confusion. My difficulty is that Online and Offline are using the same accroynymes/abbreviations but with completely different meanings. Examples:
ETA = Estimated Time of Arrival (at work) vs. Edited to Add (online)
OTP = On time performance rating (at work) vs. One True Pairing (online)
And there are others...]
5. What is up with this whole fic must be based on canon?? Isn't this an oxymoron of sorts? Isn't all fanfiction by its very nature based on canon??? (Personally, I find if the fic concerns a favorite pairing of mine - I will try anything. Canon, smanon. I honestly don't care that much...as long as the characters are interesting, provide a new twist, and seem plausible - I'm there. Also more character-centric than plot centric fic wise. Overly plotty fic bores me. It should be about the characters, new layers, bits I didn't think of or see before.) Not sure I understand the whole canon thing when it applies to fanfic. I mean let's be honest, can any fanfic be considered canon and not AU at a certain point? And isn't all fanfic to some degree based on canon - including an everybody's human fic - after all you are basing it on the characters of the story, using their attributes and similar themes from the tale to tell your own. If it was "canon" then it would be plagarized and not original in the least and sorry, what is the point of doing it in the first place? PRide and Prejudice with Zombies was certainly not canon, yet it is certainly based on canon.
PS: While I'm generally speaking not a huge fan of parody, the Buffy the PEnguin Vampire Slayer Fanfic/Fanart meme going about is hilarious. Especially the photo of a naked Spike in Wrecked conversing with a Penguin Buffy, after a hot night of sex. That you don't see everyday. Someone even wrote a fic in which everyone in the series is a penguine and what it would have been like if it had been a series with well the animated Penguin cast of Happy Dance. At the very least it would have been something kids between the ages of 6-10 would have loved.
nautibitz which can be found here:http://community.livejournal.com/nautific/profile - is rather brilliant. It is BSDM - so not for everyone. Also Spike is not nice and quite complex. But her character depictions, how she threads themes from both series, along with character tropes from both series, as well as rips away the metaphors - is insightful and surprising. She also has a wicked and delightful sense of humor that is lacking from a lot of fic. Naughty is witty. The fic reminds me a bit of the Rosemary Rodgers Modern Day Bodice Rippers that I read as a teen, but a lot more risque. Rosemary has nothing on Nautibitz. She bends and twists characters, revealing new sides. In this fic, Buffy is married to Lindsey, whose father is wealthy billionaire Spike - and Spike proceeds to go after Buffy. It's Father-in-law Fic, the opposite of the male equivalent - Mother in Law Fic (a la The Graduate). WARNING: The thing about this type of fic? You have to go in with an open-mind, if you can only read fic that fits your view of canon, this is NOT for you. But if you read fanfic in much the same way you once told stories with paper dolls or took characters out of favorite fairy tales and placed them in your own or role played, just play, without rigid rules or boundaries - it is for you. For me, I like to see twists on similar themes - I see fanfiction as means of a story being told in another way. Taking me inside another pov, another head...telling me something new about the people, and myself and the world.If we think about it Jane Austen and William Shakespeare have been told in various ways, often the most interesting being the least conventional.
I love this bit from her fic, because it provides an interesting explanation of Buffy's relationship and attraction to both Spike and Angel, and vampires in general...even if it isn't exact, while at the same time underlines the fact that it is not that simple - we can psychoanlyze ourselves to death, but when it comes to human emotions and things like love, desire, hate...it is never that simple. You can't just put a neat tag on it. People are more complex than that. :
"Don't you mean safe? If she thought about it, wasn't Spike the flipside of that coin? The opposite of everything she knew was good for her? An extreme representation of her negligent, alcoholic, self-serving father? Of course he was. Spike gave her the raw, rapt, unapologetically male attention she'd never dared to dream of but had obviously always sought -- even moreso in the light of her father's recent death. That's why she'd eaten it up, that's why she felt an immediate connection, that's why she'd let it go so far...That's why it broke her heart to her him say the words, "I don't want you." It crystallized her hidden fear of abandonment. Of course that's all he was. A rich cultured version of her deadbeat father. And if her mother was here, she'd say he was a vampire: he reels you in with charming little lies, then drains the life out of you when you bare your neck."
2.
Okay, would someone like to explain to me what the point is to plagarizing someone else's fanfic? Why would you bother? Nothing against fanfic, I rather adore fanfic, but seriously what is the point? It's not like you are getting paid for it. It's not like you have to write it or anything or that it is a class-assignment. Most people who plagarize do it for one of two reasons 1)they are suffering from writers block, and have to get a story sold, 2) have to turn in a paper for class. But fanfic? Doesn't plagarizing go against the whole point of writing fanfic to begin with - which is to play with an idea and share it with others? Be a bit like plagarizing meta. I mean if the language or story is already out there - why copy it? I'd think it would be a colossal waste of time. I totally get why the people being plagarized are livid and upset, I'd be too. But I do not understand the motivation of the plagarizer. That boggles my mind. Clearly too much time on their hands. Or maybe they are just bored? Or have to find some way to get their jollies off? Or they don't know they are plagarizing - although how you can't know, is mind boggling as well.
Add to this - the guy that I read who was doing it? Is actually not a bad tv review writer. He wrote great snarky reviews of the episodes when they aired back in 2002 on BC&S Spoiler Board. Major poster on BC&S. So, why is he wasting his energy plagarizing erotic fanfic, posting it on sites, and pissing everyone in fandom off? Goes to show you, when you think you are being crazy and self-destructive, all you need to do is go online and find someone crazier and more self-destructive than you are. (shakes head in bewilderment).
3. Why do people write and read fanfic? What compells us to do it? And what draws us to it?
And what do we look for in fic that we can't find in something else? And more to the point, why are we so judgmental and critical of the fanfic that others write and read - regardless of the type? Why are people judgmental of others tastes?
4.
ETA = Estimated Time of Arrival (at work) vs. Edited to Add (online)
OTP = On time performance rating (at work) vs. One True Pairing (online)
And there are others...]
5. What is up with this whole fic must be based on canon?? Isn't this an oxymoron of sorts? Isn't all fanfiction by its very nature based on canon??? (Personally, I find if the fic concerns a favorite pairing of mine - I will try anything. Canon, smanon. I honestly don't care that much...as long as the characters are interesting, provide a new twist, and seem plausible - I'm there. Also more character-centric than plot centric fic wise. Overly plotty fic bores me. It should be about the characters, new layers, bits I didn't think of or see before.) Not sure I understand the whole canon thing when it applies to fanfic. I mean let's be honest, can any fanfic be considered canon and not AU at a certain point? And isn't all fanfic to some degree based on canon - including an everybody's human fic - after all you are basing it on the characters of the story, using their attributes and similar themes from the tale to tell your own. If it was "canon" then it would be plagarized and not original in the least and sorry, what is the point of doing it in the first place? PRide and Prejudice with Zombies was certainly not canon, yet it is certainly based on canon.
PS: While I'm generally speaking not a huge fan of parody, the Buffy the PEnguin Vampire Slayer Fanfic/Fanart meme going about is hilarious. Especially the photo of a naked Spike in Wrecked conversing with a Penguin Buffy, after a hot night of sex. That you don't see everyday. Someone even wrote a fic in which everyone in the series is a penguine and what it would have been like if it had been a series with well the animated Penguin cast of Happy Dance. At the very least it would have been something kids between the ages of 6-10 would have loved.
![[identity profile]](https://www.dreamwidth.org/img/silk/identity/openid.png){kind=small}
no subject
Date: 2010-03-02 03:23 am (UTC)no subject
Date: 2010-03-02 03:50 am (UTC)2. Huh. People be stupid. ;)
3. Can only speak for myself, but I've always told stories. My parents encouraged it. I'd write story prompts for them and get them to "submit" short fiction to me, then we'd reverse it where they'd give me prompts. It's just kinda natural for me to want to tell stories based on something I've read/seen.
Same for consuming fanfic. I love the canon. I want more of that canon. I read fanfic.
4. Yeah, OTP = One True Pairing. :)
5. I think there exists a spectrum in fanfic about how closely a fic adheres to canon.
On one end, you have "missing scene" fics. Fics that fill in the slots that canon doesn't show us. That don't exact any significant change to canon, but just speculate on what might have happened when the cameras were looking. That's hardball canon compliance.
On the other end, you have the all-human (and all-penguin) AUs. Fics that are completely divorced from the universe and plot and just set the characters in a markedly different situation.
In between, you'll have the fics that start out with canon but then go off on their own thing. You'll have fics that start with some approximation of canon and go from there (fics set in S5-S7 where Dawn doesn't exist/Joyce never died/Willow never went evil). Each fic falls somewhere on that spectrum from "so canon, it could have actually happened" to "huh? am I still reading Buffy fics?"
A lot of this varies on what the fic's purpose is. Some fics set out to explore some aspect of canon (the soul, vampires, magic, whatever). Some fics use canon as a jumping off point to do its own thing (some of my favorite fics do this). The former will be closer to the hard-nosed canon side of the spectrum, obviously.
Personally, my comfort zone sticks close to canon. I'm good with people using canon as a leaping off point. But when people start changing canon details willy-nilly for no good reason (Hey, Angel never left Sunnydale and The Master didn't die, oh and Jesse's still around), it needs to be a damned good fic to keep me interested. And All-Human AUs? Really not my thing.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-02 05:28 pm (UTC)much your standard fare and not something I'd rec let alone admit to reading. ;-) )
Crave deals with some of the issues you were tackling in Influence of Demons, but in a completely different and far more in your face way. Nauti through this fic delves into the psychological stuff that fans use vampire/slayer as metaphors for. She rips those metaphors away. Discusses the slaying of demons, how parents demonize children, how children demonize their parents ...she also discusses addiction.
Spike/Buffy is basically Mommy!issues meets Daddy!issues head on. Then with an added wrinkle...of Buffy being married to Spike's son - who has serious Daddy issues, issues that sync quite nicely with Buffy's.
Nauti uses lines, dialogue, themes from Season 6 Buffy and S2 Angel in a way...that I haven't seen before. There's lots of interesting layers.
A lot of All Human fics make the mistake of being a rewrite of some favorite novel the writer has read - just with the Buffy characters in the lead roles. We don't learn anything more about them, except how Spike might play Elizabeth Bennet as a guy or Catherine in Wuthering Heights, and Buffy might play Heathcliff. (Yes, I've seen that.) This is more original and a lot more fun.
It's also really really smutty. She does BSDM rather well, and uses it to explore her characters inner demons and develop them. With Nauti - sex actually is plot, much like it was in Buffy and Angel. She shows what it really means to change the metaphor.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-02 05:04 am (UTC)Eurydice's Promise of Frost was my first NC17, deviant from canon, took a day off from work just to finish reading it. Later I found All About Spike and read the entire archive. When I finished it I start hunting down authors on their websites.
Crave was the reason I joined LJ, to be able to read it and it was my second AH story first one being Older also Naughti's.
Anaross brought me the pain with her angst stories (and Spike/Faith surprisingly).
Those three authors and an archive formed me as a reader, guess I'm a Smashed type one liking the epic and hot combined with pain.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-02 08:38 am (UTC)1. Crave rocks it like an enormous rocking thing. Nauti is a v. v. special talent (and no buses of any length are implied in that statement). We are lucky to have her on our team. Though if she switched teams, I might be tempted to follow her.
2. Who the hell knows? I've noticed some of my lines appearing in other people's fic, some of them excellent writers, and I wouldn't characterize that as plagarism. I think in a tight-knit community like we have, there are common themes, little fads (PengWIN!), a lot of bouncing of ideas and techniques back and forth, so a certain amount of bleed will naturally happen. That's not what you're talking about here, though. No idea.
3. I never read fanfic until I'd watched BtVS all the way through a few times and still wasn't ready for it to be over. Now, though, I see fanfic all over the mainstream entertainments that I like: Clueless, Wicked, The Eyre Affair and countless others. Now, I just see it as people riffing on the old standards, much like jazz musicians used to do. There are just professional and amateur practitioners; people working in and out of the public domain. Even that line can be blurry, and will get blurrier as eBooks take off. (Why I write is a whole other post.)
4. One True Pairing is more easily understood by the casual reader. Shipper is a very provincial term, and generally used only by people already firmly in a fandom, I suspect. Everybody knows what a pair is.
5. Some things require more suspension of disbelief than others. I think when people accuse a work of not being canon enough, they mean that the writer never got them to believe it. I could be wrong. I need an all-human Spuffy story to be exceptionally good before I really "see" Spike and Buffy, because their mission and their make-up are so firmly part of their characters to me. (See: Crave.)
no subject
Date: 2010-03-04 05:53 pm (UTC)1. Crave rocks it like an enormous rocking thing.
Ghod, yes. It is by far her best fic and that includes the non-human stuff. And be amongst the best fanfic's I've ever read or certainly the most creative regarding this specific pairing. (I've read more fanfic than people know. I just only comment on the stuff that incites a major reaction.)
This one makes me want to write a meta. It's not just AH fic, it is interpretive fic. She interprets Whedon's metaphors in our world and in the romance genre and plays with them. Spike Pratt is the human version of a vampire - a rich manipulative and at times sadistic mogul, with a wounded child's soul.
Complex. Darla is another human version of a vampire,
as are Drusilla, and Liam. And her take on what happened to Spike's father and why his mother is the way she is, is by far the most innovative and horrorific thing I've seen anyone do. She managed to outdo Whedon in the horror department and the majority of non-human fanfics. Yet amazingly she pulls it off.
Fearless in places. And I love the fact that she doesn't judge her characters. She shows us who they are and let's us decide.
I'll probably read it again. And I don't tend to re-read fic. The only other one I think I ever re-read was herself's Whatever She Deserves.
I've noticed some of my lines appearing in other people's fic, some of them excellent writers, and I wouldn't characterize that as plagarism. I think in a tight-knit community like we have, there are common themes, little fads (PengWIN!), a lot of bouncing of ideas and techniques back and forth, so a certain amount of bleed will naturally happen. That's not what you're talking about here, though. No idea.
Nope. I saw what this guy was doing. He was literally copying word for word whole paragraphs out of other fic and cleverly inserting it into his own. Specifically the erotic portions. Almost as if he had no idea how to write an erotic scene so borrowed the lines from others. Very weird. If you aren't comfortable writing that? Don't. No idea why he felt he had to.
Stupid and weird.
3. Never read fanfic until after the episode Smashed aired in the US for the first time, and there was this horrificially long wait between episodes...so I sought out spoiler boards, meta, and finally discovered fanfic, which I did not know existed until then. When I found it? Well, it forever ruined me for romance novels - I'll say that much. It also opened up a whole new playground for writing, reading and telling stories that I didn't know existed. (That's not to say I hadn't written or told fanfic prior to this - of course I did, just not in a fandom or forum, mostly just private or to friends while still in school.)
One True Pairing is more easily understood by the casual reader. Shipper is a very provincial term, and generally used only by people already firmly in a fandom, I suspect. Everybody knows what a pair is.
Now that is a rational and viable explanation. Thank you! Makes perfect sense.
I think when people accuse a work of not being canon enough, they mean that the writer never got them to believe it. I could be wrong. I need an all-human Spuffy story to be exceptionally good before I really "see" Spike and Buffy, because their mission and their make-up are so firmly part of their characters to me. (See: Crave.)
Agreed. Of course I have the same criteria for non-human fic or canon fic, I guess. If the characters don't fit or seem too off...I start arguing with the writer. (eg. some people overly-romanticize Spike, and demonize Buffy in their fic - as darkapple sort of did, and this takes me out of the story, or that over-demonizes any of the characters.)
For me, if a fic doesn't tell me something new and interesting about a character, interprets them in a new way, without indulging in judgement or romanticization - ie projecting the author's own issues onto the pairing or characters and telling not showing those issues, I'm gone. Darkapple came very close to losing me a few times - because she did exactly that.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-02 11:24 am (UTC)I've often wondered this. The only conclusion I can come to is that some people have a desperate need to put themselves on the moral high ground, and therefore they must have someone to look down on so they pick the readers of those types of fics they don't like because they're nice and convenient and probably sharing the same online hothouse.
no subject
Date: 2010-03-03 05:24 pm (UTC)The only conclusion I can come to is that some people have a desperate need to put themselves on the moral high ground, and therefore they must have someone to look down on so they pick the readers of those types of fics they don't like because they're nice and convenient and probably sharing the same online hothouse.
Anywho..I agree. But I also wonder if it is more complicated than that? I've discovered that online people who are normally quiet and polite, become beasts. It's a way to vent frustrations. Also, often a fic or interaction - can push buttons. But people forget just because XYZ ship or character reminds them of their abusive ex or their friend/family members abuser, it may be the opposite scenario for someone else. There's a lot of projecting going on, I think.
And in the attempt to understand someone else, I think, we tend to fall back on tried and true assumptions or behavior patterns that we know and have relied on in the past.
I remember...a few years back having a rather revealing conversation with a co-worker, who told me that a past serial bully boss probably didn't hate me, personally, that it really had nothing to do with what I was doing - but rather that some quirk, something about me reminded him of someone he could not stand.
I think it is the same here - to a degree.
I also think...that people need to have their opinions, definitions, values/worldview validated and substantiated by outside sources - and when that source, particularly a source that concerns something they are obsessed or love to pieces, provides a counter-view, and particularly when it hits a button or opens an old wound - they go beserk. (e.g. if you married your first love and high school sweetheart/substitute teacher, who happened to be ten years older than you and looks a lot like David Boreanze...you might conflict with someone who was molested by their high school teacher that also looks like say DB, and is traumatized. That person may well see Angel as a pedophile, while you perceive him as
the love of your life. This isn't always the case of course...and it is an extreem example - but I've seen that conflict online. Same deal with say Xander. He may reflect your dream date, your high school crush, or your brother/best friend or even husband, but for someone else he may well represent the guy who broke their heart, the one who was emotionally abusive, who bullied them...Take it to fanfic...and well, if your husband cheated on you with your mother or your best friend - you will not be able to read a fic like Crave or even Older without screaming in fury. )
no subject
Date: 2010-03-08 07:26 pm (UTC)I quite understand. It's the same for me.
And I agree entirely with your comment. I just wish people would bear this in mind and not be so judgemental when they start railing against other people's fandom/fanfic preferences.