Lost, Twilight, Crave Fic....

[shadowkat]

So, the long-anticipated Twilight Reveal happened in Buffy Comic Issue # 33 finally? Haven't read it or got it yet, because, you know, I can't. Stress fracture is still healing. I haven't made it to my beloved church in weeks, I'm hardly going to kill myself by walking ten blocks to the comics store. Also avoiding the reviews for now - no time. And I'm hoping to read the comic first...so if anyone has any links to it that I can access? Please provide.

I only know about the reveal because half my flist is commenting on it or rather commenting on the reaction of fandom to the issue which is a reaction I more or less predicted two months ago, when the reveal got leaked and I thought, frak, IDW is probably pissed right now and boy was I wrong about Whedon - I didn't think he'd do that to IDW. Should have known better. That biz is nasty. Not that I give a frig for IDW, I don't. But...anywho...I still think Hank Summers would have been a better bet all around. ;-)

All I'll say about the Twilight Reveal is that I predicted that this would be the reaction about two months ago, when the reveal was leaked. I also stated that if I were a B/A shipper I would stop reading now and have warned the Angel shippers on my flist to skip the Buffy comics. I knew exactly what they were going to after I watched the final four episodes of Dollhouse. Let's just say a certain character on Dollhouse, and it is not Ballard, has a lot in common with Angel and leave it at that. Whedon retreads the same ground and he's gotten a bit self-righteous and preachy in his old age, which I find annoying and gets in the way of the story.

They did this tale before guys - if you watched Dollhouse, you saw it.

Anyhow enuf of that...if you want my thoughts on Lost - go here, where selenak does a review of the episode that more or less states everything I thought while watching it. Also, didn't think I'd say this - but I preferred the Jack episode. Also you know there is a problem when you are rooting for the wrong team. I am. I don't like Team Jack, sorry. And this episode left me cold. It was sooo predictable and somewhat dull. I'm afraid they are following the set-up of Stephen King's The Stand - which would not be surprising since they stated ages ago in a review that The Stand inspired Lost. (sigh). Seriously, Hollywood people, you need to read a much wider variety of fiction. Hopefully, I am wrong.

Oh well, on a brighter note: Looking forward to Caprica and am off to re-read Nauti's Crave - which I'm resisting the urge to write a meta on, since you'll probably think I've lost it completely. But I love this fic, oh, I love it like you would not believe. She really delves into the psyche of the characters, and plays with how power affects people in an interesting way. This is a female fic and I so desperately needed it. While Whedon's comics feel very male to me.

Comments

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

You might try flake_sake about the comics.

And as I didn't watch Dollhouse, I'm a bit unclear about what character you're speaking of.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Oh, and I still refuse to believe that Jacob is the 'good' option. Everything we've been shown in sideways-verse just backs up that Jacob is every bit as manipulative and destructive as MIB. Jacob is just the one who fraks you with fate. MIB chooses to make you frak yourself through your own free will.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Agreed.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

In case you want to read the comic, I posted a link yesterday.

I so agree about this being probably the coffin to Bangel. Not only is he insane evil as shit and turns her into a zombie, but they did also bascally retconn the whole ship if Twangel's line about them always having been connected by the unholy glow.

It's saying the Bangel attraction is nothing more than bad magic.

Also yes, the Dollhouse connections are very plain, the zombiefication, the being programmed to love and trust someone. It really is a repeat performance.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Unfortunately it is not working. I can't get it. Media fire doesn't like my computer - all I'm getting is "processing download request".

What you state above however - sounds really close to what I predicted Whedon was going to do. I remember when I saw that episode of Dollhouse which revealed who was in charge of Rossum, and I thought, Ohhhh that is what you are doing with the comics. Of course because of IDW, I went with Giles. In some respects, I think Giles would have been a better and more interesting choice. The choice Whedon went with is a bit cliche from comic and soap perspective. Heck Whedon even has done it before. Sigh. Whedon hasn't surprised me in an interesting and satisfying way since...Angel ended. Maybe he has lost his mojo, or I should be giving his past collaborators far more credit...;-)

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

I think ... uploaded it with another service. Look for it in the newly_legion community, maybe that one works?

And yes, somehow is collaboraters make his stuff a lot better if S8 is what comes out when he works alone.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I think I got it from newly_legion last time? At any rate, no worries - just found out that a friend got it and is sending it to me as a birthday gift. (Which makes me very happy - much rather read the actual thing - the last time I tried to print one off the internet, I depleted my ink cartridges.)

And yes, somehow is collaboraters make his stuff a lot better if S8 is what comes out when he works alone.

Actually S8 is a collaboration. Look at the title credits - it tells you that at least four different people were involved in writing and creating each issue. Whedon isn't writing or plotting this alone. Whedon hasn't plotted or written anything alone, well, except perhaps for the original script to Buffy the Vampire Slayer - but even that got tweaked. He's not like Frank Miller and Alan Moore - who are known for doing everything themselves. Whedon likes collaborations.

The Twilight reveal arc is plotted and written by Brad Meltzer, who co-plotted the entire S8 arc with Whedon and acted as his co-executive producer. That's why Meltzer is writing the climatic arc.

So, really? It's which collaboration you prefer.

Whedon/Greenwalt - S1-6 Buffy, S1-3 Angel (Greenwalt left in a huff during S6/S3 to create his own series which did not survive. Can't remember the name of it, starred Billy Cruddup and I actually liked it... Greenwalt according to Marsters created the Spike and Angel characters and is responsible for talking Whedon into keeping the characters and exploring them. I doubt that's entirely true - I think Greenie told Marsters and Boreanze that while he was directing them in Girl in Question. Greenwalt and Whedon have remained silent.)

Whedon/Minear - S4 Angel, S7 Buffy, Firefly, Dollhouse

Whedon/Noxon/Fury - S4-S7 Buffy.

Whedon brothers - Dr. Horrible

Whedon/Minear/Dusku - Dollhouse

Whedon/Goddard - Cabin in the Woods

etc.

People forget who else is working on these things.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

Yes I agree, Tim does not call himself Tim "the other guy" minear for nothing.

On the comics the process of collaboration seems to be very different from the show though. On the show they had a writers room, if he was getting to weird, the others could gang up and get something going.

But in the comics, not even the individual writers know the big story, only their parts. So on one hand the big story doesn't seem to have a proper feedbac loop and the arcs seem disconnected because the writers don't really know what they are doing. Imho Vaughan's ary is still the best because it works as a standalone and does not depend on the big plot working out

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

On the comics the process of collaboration seems to be very different from the show though. On the show they had a writers room, if he was getting to weird, the others could gang up and get something going.

This is true to a degree. A lot of the interaction was done by email and having actually attempted a collaboration by email - I can state it has its difficulties and is not conducive to creating a clear and cohesive plot or character arc. Also Whedon, king of multi-tasking, has a tendency to forget what he did before - which leads to repetition and errors in continuity.

To give Whedon a little credit - he really isn't responsible for continuity and flow, that is Scott Allie's job. But as far as I can tell - Allie's definition of Editor and my definition of Editor aren't the same. He appears to think the Editor's role is to play publicity/pr man and spend all his time interacting with fans or advertising the comic, not, ahem, actually fact-checking and editing the comic to ensure there are no errors. Fans aren't helping matters - instead of blaming Jeanty and Whedon for the art mistakes and continuity errors or pacing, they really should be slamming Allie. That is why writer's have editors - to tell us when a plot is plodding along, when things need to be tightened up, when something isn't working, or that steam locomotives are no longer in use in Germany. We don't hire editors to interact with our fans on the internet and provide spoilers, and leak key plot lines. I mean...hello! Unless of course, you are Dark Horse comics.

But in the comics, not even the individual writers know the big story, only their parts. So on one hand the big story doesn't seem to have a proper feedbac loop and the arcs seem disconnected because the writers don't really know what they are doing. Imho Vaughan's ary is still the best because it works as a standalone and does not depend on the big plot working out.

I'm not sure if you've been reading Brad Meltzer's interviews? But he actually does know the big story loop. Not only does he know it, he pitched it. He states in his last interview that unlike all the other writers, he is more interested in the big picture and pitched a plot arc for the entire season. Whedon responded that he liked some things and not others, and they worked on the season long outline together, with Meltzer being assigned the penultimate
arc. So this is a principally a Meltzer/Whedon/Jeanty collaboration. I'd add Allie - but see above. I don't think Allie is doing anything other than squeeing over the prints and leaking his interpretation of upcoming plot-points as subtle spoilers to fans - to keep them interested, keeping in mind he has to keep a very contentious group of fans with various conflicting ships into the comics. If Allie were more involved, or rather if an actual editor with any skill or talent were more involved (see the tv shows) - these stories would be a lot tighter and lot less meandering. Whedon like all writers - works best with a good editor.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

You're absolutely right on Allie. It was his job to glue the thing together in the edit and also to point out errors like the train thing.

I think really he is so full of, I'll just let Joss work that he doesn't realise he could actually improve the outcome.

I've also read one or two interviews with Meltzer and yes, he's probably the exception. On one hand he actually pointed out to Whedon that the book as a whole has a disconnected feel to it and how that could have been avoided and also he was the one who knew the whole story.

JE said in an interview she doesn't know what happens after her arc and is excited to find out and that's probably how some of the other writers were briefed too. They might have gotten some key information but the big picture input came from Joss.

I have high hopes that the last two arcs will pick up a bit, for one posetive thing there's at least some speed now.

[candleanfeather.livejournal.com]

" I knew exactly what they were going to after I watched the final four episodes of Dollhouse. "

J Whedon certainly has a tendency to revisit certain thematics which isn't a bad thing per se. But if he is playing with the same ideas as in Dollhouse, like you think, the question is will he be able to explore a different aspect of it?

Finally, the links between season 8 and Dollhouse shouldn't come as a total surprise, if he was thinking about Dollhouse around the same time he conceived the idea of Season 8. When the stroy will be done, a comparison between the two could be interesting. (Nudges you for meta with not great subtility)

I wish you a good Sunday and hope your personal worries are going to be quickly alleviated.