Diverse Female Characters on TV

[shadowkat]

Saw somewhere on the lj this week a post decrying the lack of diverse women roles in tv. And at first I thought, yeah, they are right, tv is an evil male dominated world with no cool women, except male fantasy figures or super-chicks or pretty models - good for the guys. Then, I gave myself a task - come up with five tv shows and five tv show characters, female, that aren't male fantasy and are diverse and are cool and interesting and I can identify with on some level. And guess what? I came up with a lot more than that. [ETC: Wasn't very clear about this, apparently...what I was reacting to was a post that decried the lack of diverse women's roles - by that I mean women who are clearly not just cast for male fantasy or to support the male character, or to attract the male audience, who are not say "pretty" or "one type" - such as the character of Sarah on Chuck or Buffy on Buffy the Vampire Slayer or Fiona on Burn Notice - those were three of the characters referenced. In short, where are the Hurley's, Sheldon's, Leonard's, Raj's and Topher's for women?? My first response was, huh, they are right. There are none. Then I thought, can I challenge that assumption/generalization? And that's what brought about the list below. The choice of Juliet from Lost and V - is that this is a woman who was not just about the man, she affected change in both series and stood in her own right, sure pretty, but no super-powers, and was ordinary, an FBI agent with a son, or a fertility specialist who had bad luck in romance. Other, better choices, include Chandra Wilson's Bailey, a surgeon on Grey's Anatomy, who is short, black, and heavy-set, and over the age of 30. Tough as nails. And has won an Emmy for her role.]

Here's my list:

1. Bailey - played by the wonderful and versatile Chandra Wilson on Grey's Anatomy. She is black,
short, stocky, has a love interest, is a surgeon, and smart.

2. Kalinda - on The Good Wife, a lesbian indian private investigator who solves cases.

3. Marcy on One Life to Live - although not sure she is still on it, haven't watched that show in a long time...but she is heavy-set, homemaker, mystery writer.

4. Nora - Brothers and Sisters, runs a cancer center, is a mother to several kids. Played by the wonderful and aging Sally Field.

5. Mary - played by Mary McCormick In Plain Sight - A US Marshall with Witness Protection.
She and her partner help hide people and protect them.

6. Callie - on Gray's Anatomy - a bi-sexual woman surgeon, played by a heavy set-hispanic woman.

7. The lead character in TV's The Middle - a mother, used car salesman, and housewife, who struggles to juggle all these jobs simulatneously and barely manages. She fails a lot. It's a comedy.

8. Glenn Close as Patty Hewes in Damages - a tough dame who runs a law firm.

9. Alicia Florek - Juliana Marguiles in The Good Wife - a struggling attorney trying to hold her family together while her husband is being investigated by the federal government and is on trail for bribes and taking favors.

10. Diane - the partner at a law firm in the Good Wife - played by Christine Baranski.

11. Donna Noble - Donna - the Doctor's Companion on Doctor Who, over 40, heavy-set.

12. United States of Tara - Toni Collette's role in the HBO series about a woman struggling with a multiple personality disorder.

13. Lacey on Caprica - a teenage girl struggling to help her dead friend's avatar on Caprica
Smart and tough. But not superstrong or sexy or kickass. Just a normal teenage girl.

14. The lead role on the Closer - whose name I've spaced, but is about a Chief Inspector of Special Crimes - she solves cases. Played by Kyra Sedgewick. Not sex goddess.

15. Elizabeth Mitchell - the female FBI agent on V and Juliet, a doctor on Lost.

16. Epithany - a heavy-set black female head of nurses on General Hospital

17. Gwen - on Merlin, Merlin's friend and Arthur's - who is also Morgana's lady in waiting, and tough and yet not super-powered.

18. Chloe on Smallville - smart, girl-next door, runs Watchtower, no super-powers and not a damsel.

19. Tara - True Blood, Sookie's best friend, a black woman, who is tough, dealing with a drug-addicted mother, and who is a waitress in a bar.

20. Jane Lynch's character Sue on Glee - tough minded, sarcastic, girl's cheerleading coach, with a special ed sister...

21. Starbuck on Battle Star Galatica - a tough, swashbuckling, han solo type, but female.

22. Laura Roslyn on Battle Star Galatica - the President of the Fleet, dying of cancer.

23. Callie on BSG - a woman machinist who struggles with her husband.

24. Tara on Buffy the Vampire Slayer - a wiccan, not overly powerful, not super-skinny.

25. Ugly Betty - about to be canceled, but it was on - an heavy-set, frumpy, fashion magazine personal assistant.

And if you can think of more...add to the list. TV is actually a wonderful place for female roles. Better than most. Sure the guy action genre and sci-fi still tends towards eye-candy, but that's only because that genre is targeted towards a male audience. It is, like it or not. Frustrating, believe me, I know. Why do you think I loved Buffy, Caprica and BSG to pieces?

But...there are strong women in those genres...here's a list of them: (and yes, I know, I misspelled all their names...no time or patience to look them up, you will just have to deal. I've left off anyone with clear super-powers such as Buffy or Willow.)


Areyn Sun in Farscape.

Delenne in B5

Major Ivanov in B5

Major Kira in DS9

Captain Janeway in Voyager, as played by Kate Mulgrew (of Ryan's Hope, sigh, I've always loved Kate Mulgrew - I grew up watching her. She was also notable in the Manions of America and in
Mrs. Columbo)

Laura Roslynn/Starbuck/Sharon/Athena/Six/DeAnna/Ellen Tigh - BSG

Donna Noble and Dr. River Song in Doctor Who

Gwen and the ladies of Torchwood, including Children of Torchwood = whose names escape me, but if you can supply, duly appreciated.

Amanda Tapping as Dr. Helen Macgnus in Sanctuary

the lead female role in The Middleman (whose character name I can't remember but I adored)

Rose - in the TV series Lost, rarely seen, but a heavy set, older, black woman.

Sarah Connor - in Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles

The ghost - in Being Human

Comments

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

For the list, I would add to your list:

Chloe on 24 -- computer hacker who regularly saves Jack's life with her ability to work with computers and figure things out (or at least she did back when I watched it).

Peggy on Mad Men -- It's 1962 and she's managed to earn her way from secretary to copy writer to oh-so-valuable she might be stolen by another firm copy writer who earned her own office and now becomes one of the founders of the new firm.

Nina (a Werewolf) in Being Human -- smart and sarcastic... and dealing with a lot. (Okay, I guess that's a superpower, but in Being Human it's more like a super handicap)

And it's genre but I might add:

Sarah on Chuck -- she is a spy, but she doesn't have superpowers.

And, though they were aliens, I'd add Zaahn, Chiana, and Sikozou to Aeryn Sun from Farscape. Zaahn anarchist/priest, Chi whe was young and flawed but could be incredibly scrappy. And Sikozou may have been evil and a double agent, but she was also hella smart.

---

And Marcy is no longer on OLTL. She was given a happy ending though. Marcy and her still hot hubby moved to Seattle, though they returned for a visit a few months ago where she gave birth to their baby and they named it Gabriel (in honor of Al's Mother Gabrielle.)

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

Oh dear. I left out Scully! Definitely X-Files Dana Scully.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I sort of avoided Sarah and the prettier ones as much as I could...wasn't very clear in the post above, apparently.

What I was reacting to - was a post decrying the lack of diverse women in tv - or women of multiple sizes, shapes, etc - who weren't all about the guy. Who functioned outside of him or weren't for his fantasy or interest.
A good example is LOST - it has Hurley, but where is the female equivalent.
Why aren't there a lot of diverse female roles. So I decided to think about it and try to come up with as many as possible - women of various shapes and figures and colors and styles and temperaments. Such as say Marci on One Life to Live or Scully on X-Files.

[shipperx.livejournal.com]

I kind of got what you were going for and, I admit, I hesitated before adding Sarah. But, to prove your premise to be true, I was having a very difficult time coming up with women, so I eventually included her.

But even by strict criteria, I think that 24's Chloe, Mad Men's Peggy, as well as Dana Scully qualify as non-stereotypical, independent women. :)

[embers-log.livejournal.com]

well even though you are not including those with super powers, I would include the strong women on Joss' shows:
Dollhouse had Adelle (of a 'certain age' and clearly in charge)
Firefly: Zoe could stand up to any man
On Ats I would go with Lilah...
On BtVS you had Joyce Summers as a single Mother
I think they all deserve to be seen as strong women who were not sex kittens/objects.

Fiona on Burn Notice is pushing 40, is sexy, and very much her own woman.
Castle's detective Kate Becket is strong intelligent and independent....

It is true that so many shows cast really young beautiful actresses who don't look like they could be qualified for their jobs... but not every show does that. There are some shows that cast age appropriate women to play really strong roles, and your list (I really agree with your list) shows that many sci-fi shows have led the way.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Actually...I left off Fiona, because she was mentioned in the post I was reacting to..sorry wasn't that clear. ;-)

The post I was reacting to was in actuality a critique of Joss Whedon's brand of feminism and was nothing that you haven't read or seen before, hence the not linking. What struck me as interesting about it - was the comment that tv in general did not provide ANY diverse roles for women. That women were mostly on it for male viewers and were portrayed in a manner defined by men and for men. We get pretty women, but no fat women like Hurley in Lost, no roles for big black women, no roles for women who aren't beautiful, or aren't young, or etc. That this is a note to male writers - we want diverse depictions too! Show us heavy set women, nerdy women, etc.

And when Whedon came to do a tv show and went on and on about doing a feminist tv series - he did one about a pretty blond, a hot sexy chick, with superpowers - which is the fanboy's dream.
As opposed to an ordinary girl who is tough and strong, and where are those women? Where?

So I asked myself - can I find five women and five tv shows that depict diverse roles. Women who are not skinny, who are not necessarily white, who are ordinary without superpowers, who are old, young, big, small, and can I list women who fit in all those categories? Can I prove that there are diverse roles for women on tv and that they are on tv? Is it really as bad as that post suggested?

I picked Tara - because she was considered heavy by TV standards. (TV adds weight. Amber Benson is actually beautiful in person with great curves, while SMG looks aneorexic and shockingly thin...as does Hannigan.
But that is TV.) Anywho - she got a lot of flack for not being super-skinny. So I included her. Joyce is another good example. As is Zoe. But I was avoiding Whedon and Fiona and Lilah and Kate Beckett because they were referenced as being non-diverse and the tv norm. Sorry wasn't clearer.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

I don't know all of these characters and a lot of them sound very interesting but I still find that when I turn on the tv women are still often massively underdeveloped and a lot of women, even comparatively well developed ones are all about the men in a show.

The Bechdel rules really do a good job defining what I mean. Have a show/movie have more than one woman, they do interact, they talk about something else than men.
It's astonishing how little is left suddenly. Gwen and Morgana for example, whenever they interact their talking revolves around the men of the show or at best Morgana's sleeping habits.

But yay for finding so many female characters that work for you, gives me hope. At least it became a lot better.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

The Bechdel rules really do a good job defining what I mean. Have a show/movie have more than one woman, they do interact, they talk about something else than men.

There are tv shows that do this. I didn't think so at first, but forced myself to think about it. Grey's Anatomy - is about surgeons, male and female, but the main characters are female, the men focus more on women, then the women focus on men. It's a role reversal. Damages - Glenn Close's character and Rose Byrne's fit your example. As does the characters in The Good Wife. They talk about men, sure, but they also talk about other things.

So they are there. We just have to think about it.

But you did get the point of my post! Cool! Not everyone did. I wasn't that clear apparently.

[flake-sake.livejournal.com]

I guess my problem might be that also that I'm not much interested in most shows that are primarily aimed at women, like Grey's. I just don't like hospital drama and generaly very picky with shows without a fantastic element (A show I love though and that does a great job with it's female characters is Mad men).

That often leaves me in a gap, because I love sci/fi and fantasy shows who are traditionally aimed at men and where shows like Buffy, BSG or Caprica are the exception and shows like Supernatural, Chuck, Dexter and Charmed are more the rule and they tend to either depict women very strangely or they do a fine job, but have so few of them that they hardly interact.

And Supernatural for example is an exceptionally good insightful series on many levels and there it tripple infuriates me that the women are described like some aliens from playboyplanet.

But you are of course right in having a positive attitude and generally I do too. Women on tv have come a very long way and there are much more cool female characters for girls to identify with these days, but I could deffinitely see it become even better and really ballanced with the men like some shows manage.

[curlymynci.livejournal.com]

Thanks for this. I've been thinking recently that feminism would benefit from being more positive in it's drive. In other words, instead of repeatedly drawing attention to the bad characters, or the absence of female storylines/writers/musicians etc. We need to be acknowledging and praising the examples we do have, and then going out there and making some more.

Brilliant list.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Thank you! I'm learning that focusing on the negative is getting me nowhere, I need to focus on what can be done and the positive. To acknowledge the changes.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Penelope Garcia on Criminal Minds. Robust size, hacker genius, and allowed to be sexual without any subtextual comment. Plus all-around awesome.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Great example! Thank you! And you got the point of my post!

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

I'm as feminist as they come, and will bitch to high heaven about crappy female characters when I see them. But anyone who claims there are too few awesome female characters on TV isn't paying attention.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

My thoughts exactly. I remember thinking after I read the posts that the person needed to broaden their horizons. But I think you put it far better.

The L Word was an entire series - lasted 6(?) seasons about a diverse group of women who did not think about men.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

As someone who watches TV *FOR* the female characters, I am always left a bit "WTF?" about posts that claim there are no interesting women (as in not male fantasy clones) on TV.

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

I've come to the conclusion that many of these posts are focusing on certain shows and certain look of female characters. A perfect example is LOST - the show is clearly slanted towards the male viewer. I knew that upfront. BUT. I can find cool female characters on that show. I did list at least two. Juliet and Rose. There was also Ana Lucia, Libby, Illana, Sun, and Eloise Hawkings. Granted there's no female equivalent of Hurely on Lost, but there are two female equivalents on Grey's Anatomy and elsewhere.

Heck, like you, I watch tv primarily for cool female characters. I prefer tv to film for that reason. Although you can also find cool female characters in film - you just have to pay attention.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Sometimes certain female characters are more interesting in a film than their original venue.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

I think sometimes people tend to overlook the large, or not-pretty, or older or non-white female characters, and then say they're not there. Which is almost just as bad as if they really weren't there.

[insert icon of Rose from Lost here]

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Exactly. It's like well - if they aren't a lead, they don't matter.

But if you look at the shows with male lead characters - they aren't Hurley, they are Matthew Fox or David Boreanze or NAthan Fillion.
And hey, what about Ugly Betty?

Also, Rose is notably the most together, most mature character on Lost. And well-developed. We've had episodes focusing on her.

[masqthephlsphr.livejournal.com]

Focusing on her and showing she's not perfect, either. She has her very human moments of impatience and naivete or whatever.

[liliaeth]

Ellen Harvelle, from Supernatural. Kick ass, strongwilled, mother and fighter...

(and oh yes, the ghost in Being Human is called Annie)

[gabrielleabelle.livejournal.com]

...do Xena and Gabby not count? Maybe they're a bit too fan-service-y for men, but they develop into independent and interesting characters in their own right (not to mention that Xena had a huge lesbian following so the fan service was as much for the ladies as it was for the guys).

[shadowkat67.livejournal.com]

Well..yes and no.

I'm afraid that I wasn't very clear in the above post.;-) And probably should have hunted down the one that I read and linked to it, but ...I'll just paraphrase..the post I was reacting to was in actuality a critique of Joss Whedon's brand of feminism and was nothing that you haven't read or seen before, hence the not linking. What struck me as interesting about it - was the comment that tv in general did not provide diverse roles for women. That women were mostly on it for male viewers and were portrayed in a manner defined by men and for men. We get pretty women, but no fat women like Hurley in Lost, no roles for big black women, no roles for women who aren't beautiful, or aren't young, or etc.

And when Whedon came to do a tv show and went on and on about doing a feminist tv series - he did one about a pretty blond, a hot sexy chick, with superpowers - which is the fanboy's dream.
As opposed to an ordinary girl who is tough and strong, and where are those women? Where?

So I asked myself - can I find five women and five tv shows that depict diverse roles. Women who are not skinny, who are not necessarily white, who are ordinary without superpowers, who are old, young, big, small, and can I list women who fit in all those categories? Can I prove that there are diverse roles for women on tv and that they are on tv? Is it really as bad as that post suggested.

[ubi4soft.livejournal.com]

Sons of Anarchy - Gemma (Katey Sagal) is a proud tough fifty-something woman