shadowkat | (no subject)

For people who care about the Angel/Spike/Buffy comics...there is a rather interesting post from IDW that clarifies a few things, but still won't answer my main question - most likely because IDW really doesn't know.

Here's the link: http://idwpublishing.com/news/article/1360/

Well, we have Joss Whedon to blame or thank depending on your pov for IDW losing the Angel the Series license to Dark Horse. Mixed feelings about this.

Still no clarification on my question : what is comics canon and what isn't? Don't people want to know what the plot is? That's sort of crucial, don't you think? I mean, it does change things if Williams and Willingham's Angel comics are canonical to the Buffy comics - because that would mean Spike's ironically and indirectly responsible for Angel becoming Twilight. (I can see Whedon doing that.) I just want to know what story arc to throw out and what to pay attention to. At least with fanfic - people will tell you these things. They'll say - its AU or it follows directly from episode 22, Season 5. Or that it includes everything up to and including Buffy comic 35. But with the comics? They don't tell you this. You have to guess! (And here, I define canon as basically meaning what plot threads, character tropes, etc that the writer is following, what is the past history. Is Spike's last name still Pratt? Did he become mates with a fish? Did he lose his soul then get it back again? Did he fall for Illyria? Did Connor fight alongside Spike in Hell?) If I'm to continue wasting money, time and space collecting and reading these things - I want to know what is included in the story is to date.
I don't want to have to guess or debate it endlessly with people. That's getting old.

If you can get a straight answer on that question from Scott Allie or Whedon - kudos! It's the only question I haven't seen answered.

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You might want to pop over to angearia (http://angearia.livejournal.com/166501.html)'s journal. She's apparently going to inverview Allie.

Way ahead of you. I did that first. Then realized after reading the comments, that's she's not really doing a Q&A so much as just a personal interview.

But, she did state that she planned on asking:

*to what extent if any do we need to know what happened in the IDW comics to be able to follow the DH comics. (which is a nifty side-step around the whole canon question. Sort of similar to the old question - to what extent if any does one have to watch ATS to follow BTVS or vice versa. That question is still up for debate, although the writers/creators indicated that a)we should probably follow both, but b)it's possible to enjoy them without doing so since they are different franchises. (LOL!) I'm guessing that's going to be Scott Allie's answer or something to that effect. Which isn't really answering the question.)

And the other question, which she seems more interested in asking:

Is there going to be a Spike comic or one-shot, preferably written by Joss Whedon or Drew Goddard any time in the not too distant future? (Also preferrably drawn by someone other than Georges Jeanty, but I doubt she'll ask that. Hardly polite.)

I mean, it does change things if Williams and Willingham's Angel comics are canonical to the Buffy comics - because that would mean Spike's ironically and indirectly responsible for Angel becoming Twilight. (I can see Whedon doing that.)

I can see him doing it too, but I really hope Willingham's run doesn't get retroactively canonised as a concession to IDW. I hate the false prophecies thing so much. It just doesn't seem like Spike to me, plus some fan factions would have a field day being able to blame Spike for Twilight, and I think they've accumulated enough ammunition over the years.

So do I. While it would be amusing, it doesn't really fit the character or the verse that well - it's too inside jokey. Actually that was the whole problem with Willingham and Williams (say those two names real quickly...William Willingham and William Williams...LOL! Ugh, their parents must have hated them. Either that, or they have an odd sense of humor regarding pseudonymes.) - they were basically setting up jokes at the character's expense. Yes - it is ironically amusing and most likely hilarious from an objective pov -for Spike to lose his hard-earned soul, not notice it, and then create a prophecy that Angel would stupidly buy, hook line and sinker - to become a nasty villian named Twilight. Add to that - the whole dusting limbs bit. (The plot summaries of those comics often had me erupting in spasms of giggles.)

But it just doesn't quite fit the characters and seems to be more at theirs, the original creators' and the reader's expense. Sort of satire verging on parody. And they apparently did that a lot. Would have worked a lot better if they let their audience in on the joke, instead of telling it at the expense of the audience - good way to piss off an audience and lose readership.

That said? I honestly don't know which way DH will go. My guess is stormwreath is most likely right - that Whedon hasn't read the comics and plans to ignore everything that he hadn't worked on or oversaw himself. Whedon's anything if not a control freak - this latest snafu has certainly helped prove that.

As far as I understand it: no, Dark Horse are not going to come out and say directly "IDW stories are not canon". That would antagonise IDW for no reason and kill their sales of the remaining 'Angel' comics.

On the other hand, I can't imagine them telling their own readers that thy'll need to read the rival company's comics first in order to understand the stories they'll be telling themselves going forward. More crucially, I'm not at all sure if Joss has read the IDW comics after 'After the Fall', so whether he'll consider himself bound to them is an open question.

So in short; I think the lack of clarity on the canon question is quite deliberate and calculated.

You are most likely right. But since when has DH cared about antagonizing IDW or IDW's sales? We're not exactly talking about professional adult behavior here. At least none that I've seen to date.

So why not just come out and say - any comic that was overseen by or co-plotted in some way by Whedon is canon to the Buffy comics - these would include IDW's Angel After the Fall, Spike After the Fall, Lynch's up-coming Spike series, and the last arc of the Angel comics - Wolf Ram and Hart. And leave it at that? You don't hurt IDW - because you've just promoted their last two arcs. And you don't hurt yourself. They can also come out with a caveat - "oh, you don't have to read these to follow the Buffy story, but it would be more enjoyable if you did." -Sort of similar to what they said about the two tv shows, when they popped up on separate networks - you don't have to watch Angel to enjoy Buffy, but it might be more enjoyable if you did.
Of course that would be an intelligent, professional and adult response - that would aid your readership. Why would Allie ever sink so low? ;-)